Gap in load data between 3 sources.

BondoBob · January 10, 2021, 08:54 PM

I'm trying to work up a 44 Mag load with some 700x that I need to use up. I'm saving my other powders for other cartridges.

I'm using 240gr LSWC hard cast and 240 berry's plated flat point bullets. Shooting with a S&W 29 4".

Hodgdon only shows a max load of 9.5 gr. No starting load is listed.

Speer only tested from 5.5 to 6gr.

And Lee tested from 8.4 to 9.5 gr.

This may seem silly, but is there any reason I should not try 6.5, 7, 7.5 as I work up my load? That range might be my preferred pressure and ft lbs for a fun target round that's not too snappy.

Can I assume my testing range will be from starting 5.5 gr all the way through to 9.5? Again, I'm still kind of new to this and 44 mag is not where I want to make a mistake.

Thanks

**44 AMP** · January 10, 2021, 09:14 PM

Quote:

I'm using 240gr LSWC hard cast and 240 berry's plated flat point bullets.

First point,
Speer's data is for Speer's bullet which is swaged, not cast, not hard cast and not plated.

And their stopping point was in the high 800fps range. Ask Speer WHY, but it might be simply that they didn't get what they felt were good results above that.

Second point:
I have no first hand knowledge, but have read numerous times that Lee does no load testing, they reprint other people's data.

IF that's IS the case, I wouldn't take Lee's data as valid, without seeing the same data somewhere else where I knew they actually tested it.

Be aware that any load data "max" load might not be the actual maximum safely possible but simply where the testers decided was a good, safe place to stop.

You almost certainly can't get in trouble if you don't exceed their listed max loads, but that doesn't mean you will be eaten by dragons if you stick one little toe over that imaginary line.

Its possible you might be, but tis not a given that you will be....

Remember the guns ARE proofed to much higher levels and survive that...so, you should, as well.

cdoc42 · January 10, 2021, 09:33 PM

Hodgdon's load is in a gun with a barrel length of 8.275" and 9.5gr goes 1185 fps

Speer #12 is as you stated, but in a Ruger RedHawk 7.5" barrel with5.5gr (836fps) to 6.0 (871 fps) with those loads

Hornady lists a 240gr SWC with 700X in a 7.5" Ruger Super BlackHAwk at 5.5gr (800fps) to 7.1gr (1000fps).

I don't have Lee data so I can't comment on the barrel used.

So the total ranges go from 5.5 gr to 9.5gr. But you will shoot a 4" barrel so I doubt you'll get those velocities. Personally, I wouldn't push it to 9.5gr. I'd start at 5.5 and end at 7.1 but if you can chronograph them, that will give a better idea of what you've accomplished

Interestingly, Lyman 50th Ed lists loads for 10 jacketed and 5 cast bullets and none of them include 700X

BondoBob · January 10, 2021, 10:28 PM

Thank you both. That's what I needed to hear. Yes, 700x data is sparse.

FrankenMauser · January 11, 2021, 01:34 PM

Use Hodgdon's data. If you want to back off from the listed max, just reduce by 10% -- as long as there are no notes like "do not reduce this powder charge".
I don't think it's necessary to back off. But that's up to you and the specifics of the load data.

Quote:

Hornady lists a 240gr SWC with 700X in a 7.5" Ruger Super BlackHawk at 5.5gr (800fps) to 7.1gr (1000fps).

This is also a knurled swaged bullet, not cast, jacketed, or plated.
Reduced bore friction make it react differently than many other bullets, and velocities are kept low due to the soft alloy.

Quote:

I have no first hand knowledge, but have read numerous times that Lee does no load testing, they reprint other people's data.

IF that's IS the case, I wouldn't take Lee's data as valid, without seeing the same data somewhere else where I knew they actually tested it.

This is 99.9% true. Lee did work up some of their own data for their own cast bullets, but only for a limited number of cartridges.
For the most part, it is aggregated data, combined by bullet weight (sometimes including swaged, cast, jacketed, and plated all in the same category).

Lee data will make guns go bang. But it is the most generic and contradictory that you can find. It is also the most well known data source for sticking bullets in the bores of surplus foreign rifles (particularly WWI era), because the charge weights were reduced from already reduced charges, in already low pressure cartridges. "Pop, hissss. Better go find a cleaning rod."
Because they aggregate, you'll also notice that important notes - like barrel length, magnum primer, etc. - are often missing or nonsensical.

P Flados · January 11, 2021, 08:22 PM

You are actually asking about a reduced load using 700x.

This powder (like all fast burning flake powders) is about as safe as it gets for experimenting with reduced charges.

Below is a link to one set of reduced 44 loads for use with lever guns in Cowboy Action Shooting. They did 5.0 gr to 7.0 gr of 700X in the 44 magnum with a 240 cast bullet. Reduced loads with 700X actually seemed to perform quite well in a number of different 44 caliber pistol rounds and several different bullet weights.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

I helped a friend work up target practice loads for his 6" 44 Ruger with a very similar powder (Red Dot). Try a range of charges and just pick what you and the gun seem to like.

January 10, 2021, 08:54 PM	#1
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 163	Gap in load data between 3 sources. I'm trying to work up a 44 Mag load with some 700x that I need to use up. I'm saving my other powders for other cartridges. I'm using 240gr LSWC hard cast and 240 berry's plated flat point bullets. Shooting with a S&W 29 4". Hodgdon only shows a max load of 9.5 gr. No starting load is listed. Speer only tested from 5.5 to 6gr. And Lee tested from 8.4 to 9.5 gr. This may seem silly, but is there any reason I should not try 6.5, 7, 7.5 as I work up my load? That range might be my preferred pressure and ft lbs for a fun target round that's not too snappy. Can I assume my testing range will be from starting 5.5 gr all the way through to 9.5? Again, I'm still kind of new to this and 44 mag is not where I want to make a mistake. Thanks

January 10, 2021, 09:33 PM	#3
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	Hodgdon's load is in a gun with a barrel length of 8.275" and 9.5gr goes 1185 fps Speer #12 is as you stated, but in a Ruger RedHawk 7.5" barrel with5.5gr (836fps) to 6.0 (871 fps) with those loads Hornady lists a 240gr SWC with 700X in a 7.5" Ruger Super BlackHAwk at 5.5gr (800fps) to 7.1gr (1000fps). I don't have Lee data so I can't comment on the barrel used. So the total ranges go from 5.5 gr to 9.5gr. But you will shoot a 4" barrel so I doubt you'll get those velocities. Personally, I wouldn't push it to 9.5gr. I'd start at 5.5 and end at 7.1 but if you can chronograph them, that will give a better idea of what you've accomplished Interestingly, Lyman 50th Ed lists loads for 10 jacketed and 5 cast bullets and none of them include 700X

January 10, 2021, 10:28 PM	#4
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 163	Thank you both. That's what I needed to hear. Yes, 700x data is sparse.

January 11, 2021, 08:22 PM	#6
P Flados Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2017 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 243	You are actually asking about a reduced load using 700x. This powder (like all fast burning flake powders) is about as safe as it gets for experimenting with reduced charges. Below is a link to one set of reduced 44 loads for use with lever guns in Cowboy Action Shooting. They did 5.0 gr to 7.0 gr of 700X in the 44 magnum with a 240 cast bullet. Reduced loads with 700X actually seemed to perform quite well in a number of different 44 caliber pistol rounds and several different bullet weights. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm I helped a friend work up target practice loads for his 6" 44 Ruger with a very similar powder (Red Dot). Try a range of charges and just pick what you and the gun seem to like.