Pump action AR15-style rifle

simonrichter · January 5, 2021, 09:12 AM

I own a pump-action rifle with AR15 aesthetics that's similar to this one.

Last time I cleaned the rifle, it occured to me that it features a buffer spring in the buttstock just like an actual AR15. Now I'm a bit confused: The system is locked during firing and is anyway not actuated by rapid forces like gas pressure or recoil, but (comparably slowly) by manual action. What is a massive buffer spring for in that manual system?

stinkeypete · January 5, 2021, 10:31 AM

I have an even better question- what's the pump action for????

ballardw · January 5, 2021, 10:49 AM

Does it help on the load (forward) stroke?

Have you tried working the action without the buffer spring?

simonrichter · January 5, 2021, 11:15 AM

it simply IS a pump action. Easier to maintain, no dirt in the system, but the main reason is to have a rifle you can buy w/o a special permit and it still looks tacticool and takes AR parts and mags.

That's gun laws in Europe for you - and brace yourself, that sh... will be coming for you, too, sooner or later :/

**44 AMP** · January 5, 2021, 11:46 AM

Best guess, does the maker also sell a semi auto version? (not to you, but elsewhere?)

IF so, then probably uses common lower group and someone slapped the pump upper of an assembled lower and forgot to take the spring out.

Is there also a buffer, or just the buffer spring in the tube??

and, does the spring push the bolt carrier forward??

simonrichter · January 5, 2021, 12:13 PM

no, I'm pretty sure it's not a "manualized" version of an actual AR, but still, that thought occured to me as well...

Maybe this is the wrong audience for my question, who would want that thing if he could have an actual AR instead. Although, maybe we have folks from CA or MA here as well...?

Shadow9mm · January 5, 2021, 07:29 PM

probably because it is easier to use a standard part, than make a custom one.

gb_in_ga · January 5, 2021, 08:13 PM

Quote:

I have an even better question- what's the pump action for????

One reason I can think of right off hand is that it would be proof against any current or future AWB.

44caliberkid · January 5, 2021, 08:30 PM

They have pump action AR's and AK's in Australia, because of the semi auto ban. Coming to a neighborhood near you soon.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · January 5, 2021, 09:55 PM

Pretty sure they had pump actions during the ban here.

**44 AMP** · January 6, 2021, 12:47 AM

Quote:

One reason I can think of right off hand is that it would be proof against any current or future AWB.

Current? yes. Future? (shakes magic 8 ball....) Answer uncertain..ask again later....

RIGHT NOW the focus is "Semiautomatic assault weapons" but there is no certainty that will be the case in the future.

IF they decide to focus not on the action type but on ammo capacity alone, and especially if they decide to write the law basing the ban on what the weapon can hold (not what it does hold, but what it CAN hold) nothing is safe.

When they use terms such as "capable of accepting...." and do NOT further specify then anything is possible.

berettaprofessor · January 9, 2021, 03:58 PM

Seems to me a pump action AR would be little different than the forward charging FM-9 I just purchased. What's the difference if I'm pulling back a "knob" to charge the rifle or a handguard? The FM-9 is still semi-auto after charging...just as a regular AR is as well.

Scorch · January 9, 2021, 05:54 PM

Remington tried to make a "pump action AR" with the model 7615. Caught on like mud sandwiches. It was primarily marketed to police departments after the Northridge shootout in the 1980s to give high capacity firepower without the AR stigma. Nobody wanted them, especially PDs that were getting M16s from the military under various government programs.

44caliberkid · January 10, 2021, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berettaprofessor

Seems to me a pump action AR would be little different than the forward charging FM-9 I just purchased. What's the difference if I'm pulling back a "knob" to charge the rifle or a handguard? The FM-9 is still semi-auto after charging...just as a regular AR is as well.

Pump action AR's have the gas system removed and no gas port in the barrel. So you have to pump (cycle) the action for every shot. A 9mm AR that is blow back recoil powered (not gas) would still cycle because it has an unlocked breach and doesn't need gas to operate. It would require a lock for the bolt, probably incorporated into the slide mechanism, to function legally, or it would be considered illegal under a proposed semi auto ban.

44caliberkid · January 10, 2021, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorch

Remington tried to make a "pump action AR" with the model 7615. Caught on like mud sandwiches. It was primarily marketed to police departments after the Northridge shootout in the 1980s to give high capacity firepower without the AR stigma. Nobody wanted them, especially PDs that were getting M16s from the military under various government programs.

It failed because semiautos were still available. Might not be the case in places with a semi auto ban. The purpose of pump action AR's and AK's is to skirt SA and AW bans, not because anyone really wants one.

**44 AMP** · January 10, 2021, 12:15 PM

The Remington rifle was only a "pump action AR" in that it was .223 and used the AR magazine. Everything else about the rifle was pure Remington pump, scaled for the .223.

Didn't sell well on the civilian market (who could get actual semiautos) and didn't do well in the police/prison guard market (who got actual M16s surplus, somewhere between dirt cheap and actually FREE) either.

The pump action is a "work around" for the various laws written covering semi autos. It will not be safe from new laws written without defining specific action types. We don't have those, YET, but I'm confident they will be proposed sometime in the future.

January 5, 2021, 09:12 AM	#1
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 757	Pump action AR15-style rifle I own a pump-action rifle with AR15 aesthetics that's similar to this one. Last time I cleaned the rifle, it occured to me that it features a buffer spring in the buttstock just like an actual AR15. Now I'm a bit confused: The system is locked during firing and is anyway not actuated by rapid forces like gas pressure or recoil, but (comparably slowly) by manual action. What is a massive buffer spring for in that manual system? __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

January 5, 2021, 10:31 AM	#2
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,292	I have an even better question- what's the pump action for???? __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

January 5, 2021, 10:49 AM	#3
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,411	Does it help on the load (forward) stroke? Have you tried working the action without the buffer spring? __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so.

January 5, 2021, 11:15 AM	#4
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 757	it simply IS a pump action. Easier to maintain, no dirt in the system, but the main reason is to have a rifle you can buy w/o a special permit and it still looks tacticool and takes AR parts and mags. That's gun laws in Europe for you - and brace yourself, that sh... will be coming for you, too, sooner or later :/ __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

January 5, 2021, 11:46 AM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,821	Best guess, does the maker also sell a semi auto version? (not to you, but elsewhere?) IF so, then probably uses common lower group and someone slapped the pump upper of an assembled lower and forgot to take the spring out. Is there also a buffer, or just the buffer spring in the tube?? and, does the spring push the bolt carrier forward?? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 5, 2021, 12:13 PM	#6
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 757	no, I'm pretty sure it's not a "manualized" version of an actual AR, but still, that thought occured to me as well... Maybe this is the wrong audience for my question, who would want that thing if he could have an actual AR instead. Although, maybe we have folks from CA or MA here as well...? __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

January 5, 2021, 07:29 PM	#7
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	probably because it is easier to use a standard part, than make a custom one. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

January 5, 2021, 08:30 PM	#9
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,099	They have pump action AR's and AK's in Australia, because of the semi auto ban. Coming to a neighborhood near you soon.

January 5, 2021, 09:55 PM	#10
Omaha-BeenGlockin Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2001 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 1,183	Pretty sure they had pump actions during the ban here. __________________ I take the leech that's bleeding me Can't stop to save my soul I take the leash that's leading me -------Metallica

January 9, 2021, 03:58 PM	#12
berettaprofessor Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Posts: 1,091	Seems to me a pump action AR would be little different than the forward charging FM-9 I just purchased. What's the difference if I'm pulling back a "knob" to charge the rifle or a handguard? The FM-9 is still semi-auto after charging...just as a regular AR is as well. __________________ "What most people forget is that the first country the Nazi's conquered was their own." 44AMP on thefiringline.com

January 9, 2021, 05:54 PM	#13
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Remington tried to make a "pump action AR" with the model 7615. Caught on like mud sandwiches. It was primarily marketed to police departments after the Northridge shootout in the 1980s to give high capacity firepower without the AR stigma. Nobody wanted them, especially PDs that were getting M16s from the military under various government programs. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

January 10, 2021, 12:15 PM	#16
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,821	The Remington rifle was only a "pump action AR" in that it was .223 and used the AR magazine. Everything else about the rifle was pure Remington pump, scaled for the .223. Didn't sell well on the civilian market (who could get actual semiautos) and didn't do well in the police/prison guard market (who got actual M16s surplus, somewhere between dirt cheap and actually FREE) either. The pump action is a "work around" for the various laws written covering semi autos. It will not be safe from new laws written without defining specific action types. We don't have those, YET, but I'm confident they will be proposed sometime in the future. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.