Powder for heavier .223 bullets

KCRaider21 · January 12, 2021, 11:50 PM

I have the opportunity to buy some powder and bullets for loading .223. I have not loaded any .223 before and most of my factory rounds have been 55gr or 62gr. My options for bullets are 69gr, 77gr and 80gr and several different powders to choose from. Mostly IMR powders. See picture. Does anyone have experience with any of these bullet weight? If so, what powders would be good fits for those bullets?

Shadow9mm · January 12, 2021, 11:55 PM

I have tinkered around a bit, but never got a good load going. Johnnies reloading bench did a series trying to clone the Mk262 mod 1 load (77g military precision load) and tested several different combos. might be helpful. I'm hoping to use his info going forward to get a better load going, just have not had time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iir...edzK6bhXWzZyVl

KCRaider21 · January 13, 2021, 12:05 AM

I recently started watching his channel on YouTube so I’ll check that out.

Shadow9mm · January 13, 2021, 12:22 AM

Its a really good series. I have watched it through twice last year. He got some really good results, both with velocity and accuracy. I was hoping to dial a load this spring, but I'm expecting supplies to be scarce this year.

rc · January 13, 2021, 03:57 AM

TAC and 4895 from that picture are the ones I would grab. 4198 won't cycle in a mini because it's too fast and best for light bullets in bolt guns. 4064 might work as it is a good powder in 308 for match loads but 4895 is one I've used in 223 and it worked well. TAC is of similar burn rate and I've tried it too. Works good. Varget is another people like. No experience. AA 2230 is great with 65 grain bullets and my favorite in 223/5.56. If you load other rifle calibers 4895 is very versatile into 308 and 3006 class cases. It's military equivalent spec for 308 and I believe TAC is also. 4895 is crunchy stick and I think TAC is spherical ball if I remember correctly. Ball tends to meter well and I think that's one reason many people love TAC. It's really neck and neck with 2230 in 5.56.

jetinteriorguy · January 13, 2021, 05:42 AM

H4895 is my go to in the heavies.

ligonierbill · January 13, 2021, 05:53 AM

On my one go round with Swift Scirocco 75 gr, I ended up with BL-C(2).

Rimfire5 · January 13, 2021, 06:59 AM

I shoot a lot of 69 and 77 grain bullets in my .223s.

I find that the slightly slower powders (those recommended for .308s) perform better with bullets from 60 to 77 grains.
With the 50 to 55 grain bullets, the traditional faster .223 powders (H335, N130, N133, H322, CFE223) work best.
I can't speak to 80 grain bullets (I don't have a fast enough twist to stabilize them).

My best performing powders with 77 grain bullets (not necessarily in this order) are:
H4895
IMR4166 Enduron
VV N140
Varget
RL15
IMR4895
CFE223 (shoots well with both weight sets)

Scrumbag · January 13, 2021, 07:43 AM

For me it's Ramshot TAC or N140 for the heavier bullets in .223 Rem.

I like TAC for how it meters and also lots of Data from Ramshot themselves

Old_School · January 13, 2021, 09:31 AM

I use TAC for everything in 5.56. H335 & BLC-2 also work well, but I found TAC a bit more versatile with different bullet weights. Plus, I was able to pick up 8# cheap a few years ago.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

totaldla · January 13, 2021, 12:33 PM

I've used TAC and IMR8208XBR with 77gr TMK - I like both powders with the edge going to 8208.
My worst powder, because of temperature sensitivity, is CFE223 - stuff is pure garbage IMHO.

zxcvbob · January 13, 2021, 02:15 PM

I like Varget a lot, but I haven't tried that many different powders, and all I load is 55 and 62 grain bullets.

Shadow9mm · January 13, 2021, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totaldla

I've used TAC and IMR8208XBR with 77gr TMK - I like both powders with the edge going to 8208.
My worst powder, because of temperature sensitivity, is CFE223 - stuff is pure garbage IMHO.

Im just starting with CFE223 and I am rather hoping it works out as I bought 10lb of it.

Base on my research, for my area, I should have a 114fps difference between hi and low temps I can live with that.

Been reading up on the temperature sensitivity. From what I read CFE223 has a 1.7 FPS per 1 degree temperature change rate. Where I live the average hi is 85.3, and average low of 18.5 giving me an ES of 66.8f. Multiply the ES by 1.7FPS change and that gives me the 114fps swing

98 220 swift · January 13, 2021, 02:32 PM

my favorite is varget works great for me 68-75gr bullets in all of my 223s.

HiBC · January 13, 2021, 02:35 PM

Varget is my go-to powder for 69 gr bullets RE-15 for 75 gr bullets

There are other powders that perform well

totaldla · January 13, 2021, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Im just starting with CFE223 and I am rather hoping it works out as I bought 10lb of it.

Base on my research, for my area, I should have a 114fps difference between hi and low temps I can live with that.

Been reading up on the temperature sensitivity. From what I read CFE223 has a 1.7 FPS per 1 degree temperature change rate. Where I live the average hi is 85.3, and average low of 18.5 giving me an ES of 66.8f. Multiply the ES by 1.7FPS change and that gives me the 114fps swing

I wonder how the velocity changes as the cartridge sits in a warm chamber? How can I get consistent combustion with a powder that swings like CFE223?

I'm not interested in messing with poor powder formulations when there are better powders available. Actually, any powder is better than CFE223 with regards to temp sensitivity.

CFE223 is a mediocre plinking powder at best, IMO.

Rimfire5 · January 14, 2021, 07:57 AM

In Virginia, over a year's time temperature can range from 20 degrees to 110 degrees so you can't disregard temperature completely.
I understand your concern over temperature.

It depends on how long you let a cartridge sit in the chamber and how warm the chamber is.
I only feed a bullet into the chamber when I am ready to shoot it.
A couple of degrees of warming won't effect the speed much.
I also have a strip thermometer on each of my target barrels so I know when the barrel is heating up - I let the barrel cool when the barrel gets around 120 degrees F. That minimizes the heat transfer.

CFE223 and most of the non-extreme powders change somewhere between 100 and 155 fps over the span of 0 to 125 degrees F. depending upon the powder. That is from 0.8 to 1.24 fps per degree F.
The extreme powders change from 4 to 20 degrees F over the same range - that is 0.032 to 0.16 degree F.
If you research your powder you can figure out the impact of temperature and adjust for it.

Or if you are calculation averse, buy QuickLOAD and it will let you adjust your loads for temperature with temperature sensitive powders. A tenth of a grain of powder generally changes the muzzle velocity by 5 to 6 fps depending upon the powder and caliber.

I actually check temperature forecasts and adjust the load my rounds based upon the temperature that I expect during the shooting session.
Somewhere around 1908 to 1914, the US changed to 59 degrees F as their default temperature norm for reloads.
Apparently, Europe still uses 70 degrees F as their default for reloads.

KCRaider21 · January 14, 2021, 11:05 AM

Thanks for the input everyone.

January 12, 2021, 11:55 PM	#2
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,973	I have tinkered around a bit, but never got a good load going. Johnnies reloading bench did a series trying to clone the Mk262 mod 1 load (77g military precision load) and tested several different combos. might be helpful. I'm hoping to use his info going forward to get a better load going, just have not had time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iir...edzK6bhXWzZyVl __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

January 13, 2021, 12:22 AM	#4
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,973	Its a really good series. I have watched it through twice last year. He got some really good results, both with velocity and accuracy. I was hoping to dial a load this spring, but I'm expecting supplies to be scarce this year. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

January 13, 2021, 12:33 PM	#11
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,294	I've used TAC and IMR8208XBR with 77gr TMK - I like both powders with the edge going to 8208. My worst powder, because of temperature sensitivity, is CFE223 - stuff is pure garbage IMHO. __________________ Lee Auto Bench Prime Castor Oil Case Lube

January 13, 2021, 02:15 PM	#12
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I like Varget a lot, but I haven't tried that many different powders, and all I load is 55 and 62 grain bullets. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

January 13, 2021, 12:05 AM	#3
KCRaider21 Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Posts: 78	I recently started watching his channel on YouTube so I’ll check that out.

January 13, 2021, 03:57 AM	#5
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,767	TAC and 4895 from that picture are the ones I would grab. 4198 won't cycle in a mini because it's too fast and best for light bullets in bolt guns. 4064 might work as it is a good powder in 308 for match loads but 4895 is one I've used in 223 and it worked well. TAC is of similar burn rate and I've tried it too. Works good. Varget is another people like. No experience. AA 2230 is great with 65 grain bullets and my favorite in 223/5.56. If you load other rifle calibers 4895 is very versatile into 308 and 3006 class cases. It's military equivalent spec for 308 and I believe TAC is also. 4895 is crunchy stick and I think TAC is spherical ball if I remember correctly. Ball tends to meter well and I think that's one reason many people love TAC. It's really neck and neck with 2230 in 5.56.

January 13, 2021, 05:42 AM	#6
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,175	H4895 is my go to in the heavies.

January 13, 2021, 05:53 AM	#7
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	On my one go round with Swift Scirocco 75 gr, I ended up with BL-C(2).

January 13, 2021, 06:59 AM	#8
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 923	I shoot a lot of 69 and 77 grain bullets in my .223s. I find that the slightly slower powders (those recommended for .308s) perform better with bullets from 60 to 77 grains. With the 50 to 55 grain bullets, the traditional faster .223 powders (H335, N130, N133, H322, CFE223) work best. I can't speak to 80 grain bullets (I don't have a fast enough twist to stabilize them). My best performing powders with 77 grain bullets (not necessarily in this order) are: H4895 IMR4166 Enduron VV N140 Varget RL15 IMR4895 CFE223 (shoots well with both weight sets)

January 13, 2021, 07:43 AM	#9
Scrumbag Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2012 Posts: 173	For me it's Ramshot TAC or N140 for the heavier bullets in .223 Rem. I like TAC for how it meters and also lots of Data from Ramshot themselves

January 13, 2021, 09:31 AM	#10
Old_School Member Join Date: March 19, 2012 Posts: 74	I use TAC for everything in 5.56. H335 & BLC-2 also work well, but I found TAC a bit more versatile with different bullet weights. Plus, I was able to pick up 8# cheap a few years ago. Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

January 13, 2021, 02:32 PM	#14
98 220 swift Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2015 Location: Perryville MO Posts: 426	my favorite is varget works great for me 68-75gr bullets in all of my 223s.

January 13, 2021, 02:35 PM	#15
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	Varget is my go-to powder for 69 gr bullets RE-15 for 75 gr bullets There are other powders that perform well

January 14, 2021, 07:57 AM	#17
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 923	In Virginia, over a year's time temperature can range from 20 degrees to 110 degrees so you can't disregard temperature completely. I understand your concern over temperature. It depends on how long you let a cartridge sit in the chamber and how warm the chamber is. I only feed a bullet into the chamber when I am ready to shoot it. A couple of degrees of warming won't effect the speed much. I also have a strip thermometer on each of my target barrels so I know when the barrel is heating up - I let the barrel cool when the barrel gets around 120 degrees F. That minimizes the heat transfer. CFE223 and most of the non-extreme powders change somewhere between 100 and 155 fps over the span of 0 to 125 degrees F. depending upon the powder. That is from 0.8 to 1.24 fps per degree F. The extreme powders change from 4 to 20 degrees F over the same range - that is 0.032 to 0.16 degree F. If you research your powder you can figure out the impact of temperature and adjust for it. Or if you are calculation averse, buy QuickLOAD and it will let you adjust your loads for temperature with temperature sensitive powders. A tenth of a grain of powder generally changes the muzzle velocity by 5 to 6 fps depending upon the powder and caliber. I actually check temperature forecasts and adjust the load my rounds based upon the temperature that I expect during the shooting session. Somewhere around 1908 to 1914, the US changed to 59 degrees F as their default temperature norm for reloads. Apparently, Europe still uses 70 degrees F as their default for reloads.

January 14, 2021, 11:05 AM	#18
KCRaider21 Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Posts: 78	Thanks for the input everyone.