Police Seize Guns of Recently Dead

[Stargater53]

Hmmm. The TV series tell us to beware the recent dead, that they may come back as zombies. But in New York, we really ought to fear the police.

Why? Because police are now confiscating the guns of the recent dead!

Police in Buffalo, New York, are now trying to take legal handguns from heirs of recently deceased owners.

Buffalo Police Commissioner Daniel Derrenda told the press that his officers have started seizing handguns from families’ owners within days of their deaths. “We recently started a program where we’re cross referencing all the pistol permit holders with the death records, and we’re sending people out to collect (seize) the guns whenever possible so that they don’t end up in the wrong hands.”

See Story Here

--

Using records to collect guns? The liberals said it would never happen. And I had such faith in them! Such trust! Like a little child!

Tell me it isn't so!

--

[zxcvbob]

One more duty for the executor of the estate; secure all the guns (possibly out of state so they are out of reach) so the police can't steal them before probate. Or before the body is even cold.

[Aguila Blanca]

New York (state) requires that all handguns be listed on your permit. No permit ==> no handguns. This is why many handgun owners in New York (state) make certain that someone else has a permit and that the guns are also listed on that person's permit. Otherwise, the aw-thaw-rih-tays are legally authorized to swoop in and "recover" the guns, since they enter a state of legal limbo if the only person who has them on a permit dies.

[TXAZ]

You think the NY authorities don’t like guns in the hands of honest citizens?

[Ricekila]

Originally Posted by TXAZ

You think the NY authorities don’t like guns in the hands of honest citizens?

[Aguila Blanca]

The link in the OP doesn't work for me, but here's one that does:

https://www.syracuse.com/news/2014/1...ers_death.html

Fox News reports New York state law states that if the permit holder dies, the estate has 15 days to dispose of the guns or turn them in to authorities, who can hold the weapons for up to two years. According to LoHud.com, that violation of the law by survivors is a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail and a fine.
...
Though Mayor Byron Brown hasn't addressed the plan since its announcement, according to Fox News, he did express to WIVB during the summer his desire to keep guns out of criminals' hands in any way possible: "I say to those critics, again, if we can get one of these guns off the streets that could be used to commit a crime or injure a member of our community, it's a good thing."

I wonder what the statistics are for Buffalo with respect to guns stolen from families after the owner died ending up on the street and used to commit crimes. My guess is that it's a pretty small number.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I wonder what the statistics are for Buffalo with respect to guns stolen from families after the owner died ending up on the street and used to commit crimes. My guess is that it's a pretty small number.

I’d bet the number of guns the police seize and then later lose are larger than the number of guns from families that end up in crime.

[JohnKSa]

New York (state) requires that all handguns be listed on your permit. No permit ==> no handguns. This is why many handgun owners in New York (state) make certain that someone else has a permit and that the guns are also listed on that person's permit. Otherwise, the aw-thaw-rih-tays are legally authorized to swoop in and "recover" the guns, since they enter a state of legal limbo if the only person who has them on a permit dies.

What's really problematic here is that by federal law, a person can legally bequeath firearms to a person in another state.

Therefore, there is not automatically an infraction taking place when a person dies in NY and leaves behind firearms. Those firearms can be legally transferred out of state via a bequest. In such cases, NY's new policy would amount to illegally confiscating someone's legally owned property.

[44 AMP]

New York (state) requires that all handguns be listed on your permit. No permit ==> no handguns. This is why many handgun owners in New York (state) make certain that someone else has a permit and that the guns are also listed on that person's permit

My family learned this about 1967 or so (I forget the exact year but a year or two at most either way). Dad, Mom, and little brother were in a bad car wreck. Totaled a just paid off Buick. Dad got cut a bit, mom broke her nose (on the mirror) little brother got bounced around a bit but unhurt.

Two people in the other 3 cars involved were killed. We got off LUCKY!!

One of the results was that we learned that if Dad had died, we would have to surrender his pistols to the police, since no one else in the household had a permit for them. At the time, we were told that if we surrendered them to the Sherriff, they would be held, if a permit was applied for, until it was either approved, or denied. If we turned them in to the State Police, they would hold them 30 days and then destroy them.

Mom applied for her permit the next week.

I got my permit at age 18, and a couple years later, so did little brother, and all of them listed all the pistols in the house.

NYS permits are NOT valid for any handgun, they are only for those individual guns listed on them as required by the state, by make, caliber, barrel length (??) and Serial #.

That was over 50 years ago now, and I don't see any relaxation in the law, rather the opposite.

While I'm sure there will be mistakes made, I don't see this "new" policy as anything different from what has been the law for generations. The only apparent difference is that today, they can have a computer tell them when a permit holder dies, so they can determine if the guns can be LEGALLY confiscated. Because if there is no one in the household with a valid permit, it is the law. Now, I'm sure there is a mechanism for the executor to be able to hold (or perhaps have the police or an FFL hold the guns) if they, personally do not have a permit for them, until the estate is disposed of, but without a permit they cannot be legally in the possession of surviving family members or whom ever they are bequeathed to in the state of New York.

it sucks, but its the law, and has been for a LONG time. Today's computers give the cops a heads up, that's all.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

What's really problematic here is that by federal law, a person can legally bequeath firearms to a person in another state.

Therefore, there is not automatically an infraction taking place when a person dies in NY and leaves behind firearms. Those firearms can be legally transferred out of state via a bequest. In such cases, NY's new policy would amount to illegally confiscating someone's legally owned property.

The State of NY would probably answer that by saying that the law allows fifteen days for the family to dispose of any firearms. Of course, that's not enough time. If I remember the federal law, the transfers must be made by the executor, and there isn't an executor until the will (if there is one) has been submitted to a probate court and the judge approves an executor. In there is no will, the probate court still has to appoint someone as executor. To expect that this can be accomplished AND the firearms transferred out of state within fifteen days is unrealistic.

But I'm sure the State of New York doesn't care. But this isn't a new policy. It's an existing law and the City of Buffalo has just decided to make a big deal out of announcing that they are going to start enforcing it.

[44 AMP]

The State of NY would probably answer that by saying that the law allows fifteen days for the family to dispose of any firearms. Of course, that's not enough time.

I think that this is one of those situations where you would need to talk to a lawyer well versed in relevant sections of NYS law. It is not impossible that the "15 day clock" doesn't start until certain conditions are met. It is also possible it starts on the death of the permit holder. I don't know, or personally know anyone who does.

Sadly, its also possible that a police dept. will start the clock on the death of the permit holder while a court doesn't. Such a thing would lead to premature (and therefore technically illegal) seizure. I can easily see that possibility.

What is actually the correct process under law is something I think only a qualified NY attorney can tell you with any degree of certainty.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

I think that this is one of those situations where you would need to talk to a lawyer well versed in relevant sections of NYS law. It is not impossible that the "15 day clock" doesn't start until certain conditions are met. It is also possible it starts on the death of the permit holder. I don't know, or personally know anyone who does.

I agree that consultation with a NY attorney knowledgeable in both estate and firearms law would be wise, but I couldn't open the link in the OP so I did a search and I came up with this:

https://www.opposingviews.com/catego...n-owners-video

"They're quick to say they're going to take the guns," Tom King, president of the New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, told FoxNews.com. "But they don't tell you the law doesn't apply to long guns, or that these families can sell [their loved one's] pistol or apply to keep it."

Based on what the president of the NYSRPA says, it appears that the fifteen days starts from the time of death.

I wonder if the Buffalo PD has taken into account that they aren't "confiscating" these guns, they are taking temporary custody of them for [alleged] safekeeping. That implies a fiduciary duty to preserve the value of the guns, and if some or all of the guns are expensive, collector-grade firearms, just dumping them into a duffle bag and placing the duffle bag in the evidence locker isn't likely to go far toward preserving the value. It would be delicious to see them sued by the estate of a collector because they allowed several high-value firearms to become rusty chunks of metal while the estate was in probate.

[FITASC]

Though Mayor Byron Brown hasn't addressed the plan since its announcement, according to Fox News, he did express to WIVB during the summer his desire to keep guns out of criminals' hands in any way possible: "I say to those critics, again, if we can get one of these guns off the streets that could be used to commit a crime or injure a member of our community, it's a good thing."

MAYBE they should focus their efforts on keeping those who commit crimes in prison............

[Stargater53]

Originally Posted by FITASC

MAYBE they should focus their efforts on keeping those who commit crimes in prison............

But if we had less guns on the streets, we would need less prisons. And if we got rid of all the guns, we wouldn't need any prisons.

Rosie O'Donnel summed it up when she said this was the 21st century. No one needs guns. Like a flat earther, she gets in an rule elevator, rides it up to the 26th floor, looks out and says, "No one needs guns anymore!" After all, from her apartment she can see the Golden Gate Bridge and there's nothing but city life in between. No wilderness, no ranches, nothing!

But what if the families of the deceased don't know where the guns are? We looked everywhere and just couldn't find them! Or what if they transported the guns out of state? There are options. Any FFL could take them. And what if the guns are bequeathed to someone in Virginia, Utah or Florida?

If the state takes temporary custody of the guns, do they take good care of them, or throw them into a bucket like they did in Louisiana during Katrina? I just wonder how many Colt Pythons and Browning Hi-Powerrs have been destroyed by the authorities!

--

[Onward Allusion]

These kind of irrational actions/laws further drives the wedge between Reds & Blues. Reds will move out of Blue States & vice versa.

[Tom Servo]

Reds will move out of Blue States & vice versa.

That doesn't really happen enough to change demographics or voter behavior, though.

Buffalo isn't Manhattan. It's an economic disaster with an economy largely driven by meager warehouse and manufacturing jobs. It's one of those places where inertia kicked in and most people are pretty much stuck there.

As with the rest of upstate NY, the politics are pretty conservative. The problem is, there aren't enough people to counteract the political gravity of Long Island, so they just grumble and put up with policies that don't really represent them.

It would appear their only real option is to move, but that's not feasible when there's no place for them to move to.

[kenny53]

That is a terrible law. I feel bad for the good people of state New York , their lives are ruled by the liberals of NYC.

[davidsog]

I feel bad for the good people of state New York , their lives are ruled by the liberals of NYC.

Absolutely. They live in tyranny. At least that is what this looks like for any law abiding citizen that wanted to pass on family heirlooms.

[FITASC]

Quote:
Reds will move out of Blue States & vice versa.
That doesn't really happen enough to change demographics or voter behavior, though.

Tell that to the folks in NV, UT, VA and a host of others - all have become purple or blue

[4V50 Gary]

First post. Another duty for the executor is to recover them from the police.

This is evidence that registration leads to confiscation.

[P5 Guy]

That is a terrible law. I feel bad for the good people of state New York , their lives are ruled by the liberals of NYC.

And our current POTUS is a moderate businessman from NYC.

[mikejonestkd]

I visit my LGS at least twice a month, and have built an excellent relationship with the owner over the past 20 years, so when he tells me something I tend to believe it.
He told me of a friend of his that recently passed in a suburb of Rochester. The local police came and removed everything firearms related from his house -EVERTYTHING. All Guns, ammo, all reloading equipment, books, powder, primers, lead, cases, air rifles and a even a few airsoft rifles. EVERYTHING. No list of the items was provided to the grieving widow, so the executor does not even know what to ask for when he goes to the police to pass them on to the next of kin.


I just had a frank conversation with my family, they now have a plan to avoid the same situation in the event of my demise.

[44 AMP]

a suburb of Rochester. The local police came and removed everything firearms related from his house -EVERTYTHING.

No doubt in my mind that this happened. Along with a long history of restrictive laws, NY also has a long history of various police abusing the public by going well beyond their legal authority.

NY is not unique in this.

[OS11085]

I left Long Island 16 yrs ago and each time I needed to renew my pistol permit the SCPD made you feel like a criminal because you had guns. You needed the permit to just have a handgun, you had to produce it at the range and when you bought ammo. They the liberals in NY are over the top. And that was Long Island I can't imagine living in the city. A different story in Florida.

[mikejonestkd]

Another quick story about NYS and confiscation.
My best friend's father was a long time PI that worked with the NYPD for three decades. He got cancer, and knew his time was short. So, he sold his two handguns to his son that lives upstate, and removed them from his permit just before passing.
After the funeral his widow was met by the same NYPD officers that her husband had worked with for years. They tossed her house looking for the handguns, even after she produced a bill of sale showing that they had been legally transferred to her son.
The next day the local PD showed up at her son's house and confiscated the handguns. I do not think they ever got them back.