.45 ACP Load Data Confusion

mjm · May 23, 2010, 05:36 PM

I am reloading for a Kimber .45 ACP (1911 frame). Last year I used the Hodgdon site (230 gn FMJ FP) to work up a load (4.2 to 5.0 gn HP-38) for a Winchester bulk 230 gn FMJRN. I used the Hodgdon data over Speer book.

I bought a bunch of Montana Gold 230 gn FMJRN bullets and did the same. This time, I tested each load and some factory Winchester using a chrono.

I recently bought Lyman and Nosler reloading books. Lyman and Speer are in general agreement with starting and max loads for 230 gn TMJRN. Lyman is 5.2 to 5.8 and Speer is 5.4 to 6.2.

According to Hodgdon, the 5.2 gn I settled on is near the max and the starting point for Lyman and Speer. Given HP-38 and Win 231 are the same; I assume I can continue to work up to 5.8 gn. What HP-38 Load are you using for 230 gn FMJRN bullets?

Information from testing:
4.2 gn - 570 fps, SD=8
4.4 gn - 614 fps, SD=11
4.6 gn - 636 fts, SD=12
4.8 gn - 655 fps, SD=16
5.0 gn - 684 fps, SD=10
5.2 gn - 706 fps, SD=11

OAL is 1.271

hk33ka1 · May 23, 2010, 05:48 PM

With WIN 231 I am using anywhere from 5.0gr to 5.5gr with 230gr RN plated, and 230gr cast RN. I have not loaded real FMJ with this powder yet. I was using Speer and Lee data if I recall. I have also been watching the OAL compared to the load data I am using. Some of my data gives 1.20" and others are a little longer at 1.26" allowing a bit more powder.

The shorter length (1.20") was needed so the ogive of the plated bullet would not hit the rifling of my Springfield 1911 causing it to not chamber easily and possibly higher pressure. My cast 230grs function fine at 1.25-1.26".

vranasaurus · May 23, 2010, 05:51 PM

What is the OAL listed in each manual.

Hodgdon tends to use a shorters OAL on some loads. If the loads are using a shorter OAL then they will have a lower powder charge to achieve the same pressure.

Please post the OAL you are using because it makes a difference.

RWNielsen · May 23, 2010, 05:58 PM

I had the same results with Remington bulk FMJ-RN and HP-38.
Barely went over 700 fps with 5.3g @ 1.260 COL.
I'm going to try to work my way up to 800 fps or so. (slowly)
I should mention that I had no cycling issues at all in over 150 rds.

mjm · May 23, 2010, 06:01 PM

Thanks for the OAL reminder. I edited the original post to show I used 1.271, so others will see it.

Nosler OAL is 1.260
Lyman OAL is 1.275
Hodgdon OAL is 1.200 for a flat nose

**Unclenick** · May 23, 2010, 06:15 PM

Pressure varies with seating depth of the bullet and the grip the case has on it and the internal case volume and how hot the primer is. Lots of variables. Your velocities are all down in the target range, if the readings are accurate? Back your chronograph up to 15 feet and check again, to be sure you aren't reading low because of muzzle and unburned powder blast triggering the the front screen ahead of the bullet. If you have the unit less than 10 feet away, that's a real possibility.

You should be able to load 231/HP38 to military hardball levels. Those produce about 875 fps from 5" test barrels, and about 5.6 grains of 231 will do that for me.

Speer is famous for warm load data. QuickLOAD thinks 6.2 grains with either a jacketed or plated 230 grain RN bullet seated to 1.275" COL would run at the upper end of the +P pressure range in a case with 26 grains water capacity (what I've measured as typical). I'd work up to that pretty carefully.

mjm · May 23, 2010, 06:38 PM

Unclenick, the chrono's start screen was measured at 15'. The target was at 21 ft.
I have a CED Millenium II. This was the second time I used it. I honestly do not know how accurate it is.

The primers were Federal 150. Each load was individually weight using a digital scale.

**Unclenick** · May 23, 2010, 09:46 PM

I have the model I Millennium that I got as a second chronograph for ballistic coefficient measuring, and it tracks my older Oehler 35P very closely. Typically within 5 fps if I set it all up carefully and overlap the screens. I did fit mine with the 4' boom accessory to match the Oheler's screen spacing, but more to indulge a psychological sense of symmetry than for any proven advantage. Otherwise it is stock.

I forgot to ask what barrel length you have, but if it is 5" I am surprised how low the velocity you are getting is? Could be the particular lot of powder, though, and maybe that's why Speer's numbers are high in this instance?

demigod · May 24, 2010, 11:47 AM

I too use 5.6 grains of W231/HP38. It happened to be the load in the Dillon 550 video tape when I got my machine years ago.

May 23, 2010, 05:36 PM	#1
mjm Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Posts: 84	.45 ACP Load Data Confusion I am reloading for a Kimber .45 ACP (1911 frame). Last year I used the Hodgdon site (230 gn FMJ FP) to work up a load (4.2 to 5.0 gn HP-38) for a Winchester bulk 230 gn FMJRN. I used the Hodgdon data over Speer book. I bought a bunch of Montana Gold 230 gn FMJRN bullets and did the same. This time, I tested each load and some factory Winchester using a chrono. I recently bought Lyman and Nosler reloading books. Lyman and Speer are in general agreement with starting and max loads for 230 gn TMJRN. Lyman is 5.2 to 5.8 and Speer is 5.4 to 6.2. According to Hodgdon, the 5.2 gn I settled on is near the max and the starting point for Lyman and Speer. Given HP-38 and Win 231 are the same; I assume I can continue to work up to 5.8 gn. What HP-38 Load are you using for 230 gn FMJRN bullets? Information from testing: 4.2 gn - 570 fps, SD=8 4.4 gn - 614 fps, SD=11 4.6 gn - 636 fts, SD=12 4.8 gn - 655 fps, SD=16 5.0 gn - 684 fps, SD=10 5.2 gn - 706 fps, SD=11 OAL is 1.271 Last edited by mjm; May 23, 2010 at 05:54 PM.

May 23, 2010, 05:58 PM	#4
RWNielsen Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2009 Posts: 116	230g FMJRN I had the same results with Remington bulk FMJ-RN and HP-38. Barely went over 700 fps with 5.3g @ 1.260 COL. I'm going to try to work my way up to 800 fps or so. (slowly) I should mention that I had no cycling issues at all in over 150 rds.

May 23, 2010, 06:15 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Pressure varies with seating depth of the bullet and the grip the case has on it and the internal case volume and how hot the primer is. Lots of variables. Your velocities are all down in the target range, if the readings are accurate? Back your chronograph up to 15 feet and check again, to be sure you aren't reading low because of muzzle and unburned powder blast triggering the the front screen ahead of the bullet. If you have the unit less than 10 feet away, that's a real possibility. You should be able to load 231/HP38 to military hardball levels. Those produce about 875 fps from 5" test barrels, and about 5.6 grains of 231 will do that for me. Speer is famous for warm load data. QuickLOAD thinks 6.2 grains with either a jacketed or plated 230 grain RN bullet seated to 1.275" COL would run at the upper end of the +P pressure range in a case with 26 grains water capacity (what I've measured as typical). I'd work up to that pretty carefully. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 23, 2010, 09:46 PM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	I have the model I Millennium that I got as a second chronograph for ballistic coefficient measuring, and it tracks my older Oehler 35P very closely. Typically within 5 fps if I set it all up carefully and overlap the screens. I did fit mine with the 4' boom accessory to match the Oheler's screen spacing, but more to indulge a psychological sense of symmetry than for any proven advantage. Otherwise it is stock. I forgot to ask what barrel length you have, but if it is 5" I am surprised how low the velocity you are getting is? Could be the particular lot of powder, though, and maybe that's why Speer's numbers are high in this instance? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 23, 2010, 05:48 PM	#2
hk33ka1 Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2010 Posts: 275	With WIN 231 I am using anywhere from 5.0gr to 5.5gr with 230gr RN plated, and 230gr cast RN. I have not loaded real FMJ with this powder yet. I was using Speer and Lee data if I recall. I have also been watching the OAL compared to the load data I am using. Some of my data gives 1.20" and others are a little longer at 1.26" allowing a bit more powder. The shorter length (1.20") was needed so the ogive of the plated bullet would not hit the rifling of my Springfield 1911 causing it to not chamber easily and possibly higher pressure. My cast 230grs function fine at 1.25-1.26".

May 23, 2010, 05:51 PM	#3
vranasaurus Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2008 Posts: 1,184	What is the OAL listed in each manual. Hodgdon tends to use a shorters OAL on some loads. If the loads are using a shorter OAL then they will have a lower powder charge to achieve the same pressure. Please post the OAL you are using because it makes a difference.

May 23, 2010, 06:01 PM	#5
mjm Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Posts: 84	Thanks for the OAL reminder. I edited the original post to show I used 1.271, so others will see it. Nosler OAL is 1.260 Lyman OAL is 1.275 Hodgdon OAL is 1.200 for a flat nose

May 23, 2010, 06:38 PM	#7
mjm Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Posts: 84	Unclenick, the chrono's start screen was measured at 15'. The target was at 21 ft. I have a CED Millenium II. This was the second time I used it. I honestly do not know how accurate it is. The primers were Federal 150. Each load was individually weight using a digital scale.

May 24, 2010, 11:47 AM	#9
demigod Junior member Join Date: March 13, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 1,129	I too use 5.6 grains of W231/HP38. It happened to be the load in the Dillon 550 video tape when I got my machine years ago.