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Old September 21, 2015, 04:13 PM   #51
F. Guffey
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Funny, I too remember the days of a shotgun or rifle in the back window of EVERY truck in the High School parking lot during hunting season. And that was 30 miles south of DC in the 1980s. How times have changed. It is now illegal to have a pocket knife on school grounds.
I just sent a pick up to Alabama for the grandsons, complete with gun rack. They sent pictures of the P/U after some work was completed. The gun rack was still there.

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Old September 22, 2015, 09:48 AM   #52
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Those that have a defensive role are loaded and locked up. Those that are not for defense are unloaded and locked up. They are in several different places. Only I know the combinations. The keys that could be used to access something in case of battery fail are also locked up.
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Old September 22, 2015, 05:25 PM   #53
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And no kid from a good home and good parents drinks, does drugs, steals, drag races in the streets, or screws around.
There are always kids who do things that they're not supposed to and the parents are the last to know.

I don't have kids but if I did they would be taught all about guns at an early age but they wouldn't have access to them without supervision till they proved themselves to be trustworthy.
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Old September 22, 2015, 07:39 PM   #54
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All the anecdotal stories are meaningless if something bad were to happen. They sure as heck would not hold up in a court of law if a child was injured or killed due to guns being unsecured. Kids lack the mental maturity and do things even though they know they should not. Multiple studies have shown that the brain has not even fully matured until their twenties. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/ I have talked to my 5 year old about what to do if she finds a gun and have shown her what an airsoft gun looks like. I do not trust her life on doing the right thing. All of my guns are either locked up or stored in concealed and high up places. The ones that are not locked up are unloaded.
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Old September 22, 2015, 11:06 PM   #55
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Friend, I understand your question. And I know that each and every one has their own experience to relate, and to follow. My children were raised in a home with firearms.

That being said, here's my advice:

Do NOT take the chance.

1. Start telling your children NOW about firearms. Let them be present when you clean them and/or handle them.

2. Educate them each and every time that they touch them about gun safety. At a bare minimum, always emphasize the three basic safety rules:

a. ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded.
b. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
c. ALWAYS be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

3. Tell them that if they ever want to see one of your guns that all they have to do is to ask. You will be glad to show it to them, no matter when it is--except if any of their friends are over. Tell them that they should NEVER touch a firearm unless you are present and give them permission.

4. As for their friends, use the Eddie Eagle guidelines from the NRA: Stop! Don't touch! Leave the area! Get an adult!

Now comes the part you may not like.

Get a safe. NOT a small safe, and not a key-only design. Get a BIG safe with a combination.

NEVER leave ANY firearms unattended and unsecured in your home.

If you want to have a firearm handy, strap on a holster and carry it while on your property. When you go to bed, put it where you can get it.

If you leave your house, LOCK UP ALL FIREARMS IN YOUR SAFE. PERIOD.

Unless your wife shows an interest, do not leave any out. EVER. I don't care how mature and responsible you are, all children are curious....and it only takes the time that a sear is released and a hammer or striker falls for a life changing tragedy to occur. No shortcuts, friend. Best of luck to you.
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Old September 22, 2015, 11:14 PM   #56
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I am not a parent but I started my niece and nephew shooting when they were five. They were taught the safety lessons until they were ingrained into them. My family has a cabin.

We have bear, wolves, cougar, bobcat, raccoons, coyotes and human preditors..... even the children have to be prepared to defend their family.

When my niece was nine I had to leave her and her friend armed in the cabin while I dealt with some idiots in the cabin tract. Calling law enforcement was not an option as it would have been a minimum six hour wait.

My niece received her first handgun at age ten. My nephew had his own at age five and at ten he received an antique Winchester Model 90.

In my nephews teen years he disarmed numerous idiots at drinking parties.

If you show your children that the gun is a tool just like a screwdriver or hammer and that all tools should be used with proper instruction and care you will be much better off.

You do not leave a two year old with a blender or toaster either...........
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Old September 23, 2015, 08:53 AM   #57
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"You can't kid-proof a gun, but you can gun-proof a kid."

I began when my son was four years old. He learned that my 1911 was too big for him. He was told that when HE thought that he was big enough to shoot it, we'd go together to shoot whenever he wanted to.

That took out all the "lure of the unknown" and made the gun just another tool rather than some sort of illicit toy. Call it "Applied Child Psychology".

Helping me "autopsy" deer helped, as well. I made a point of showing him where the bullet had messed up the neck or "innards". Separate and distinct from the Four Rules, he learned the possible result of being foolish with a gun.

Never had the first sign of a problem.
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Old September 23, 2015, 09:53 AM   #58
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For those that have kids. What do you do with your guns at home? I have a 3 month old, 2 yr old, and 4 yr old. My wife is MAKING me keep them unloaded + locked up. I just bought a FAS1 safe and am going to mount under my bed or in closet but they are still unloaded. So what are others doing? Are you guns locked away + unloaded? I have a home alarm system, which could buy me some time/or scare away intruder. Would they be safe enough in my fas1 safe to keep loaded? My home defense gun in a .357 revolver so its not a quick load like a semi. I have a taurus pt111 semi but i just dont trust it for self defense.
I can understand your wife's concens, especially as you can abide by them but still be able to react quickly.

OK so going by the wife's terms : unloaded and locked up.
Would this include rifles? Would the rifle have to be locked up?

If yes:
Option 1: quick open safe: pistol with large capacity mag. Mag is resting in safe with firearm. open, slap in mag, cock there you go.

If No:
Option 2: rifle on latch by bed or where you feel comfortable (unloaded). Magazine itself in quick open safe. Again open, slap in mag, cock there you go.

The advantage of either option is that you have to be awake and alert to do this (and can use this as an argument if the wife gets antsy). You're not going to go off half cocked as it were. I'd personally go for option 1 with a flashlight in the safe or near you. Use can use the pistol one handed with the other to guide children or use the flashlight.
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Old September 23, 2015, 10:04 AM   #59
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"...at 2 yrs. and 4 yrs. they just cant be trusted..." They can if there are consequences for getting into da's stuff.
If the kid is taught about firearms, even at 2(likely take lots and lots and lots of repetition), they stop being daddy's mysterious toys. It's when they're told no, but not why, that daddy's toys get really interesting.
Absolutely not so. Anybody with any training in child and adolescent behavior knows that this just doesn't hold water. Yes, there are the occasional kids that can be trusted like this but most kid's minds just don't work they way.
Agreed and considering there are options to be safe but almost as fast as pointed out in the thread already here's the thing:
1. If there is a 1% chance you're wrong, why take it?
2. Your kids may be perfect. Its the 52,000 other kids that will go through your house that aren't.
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Old September 23, 2015, 10:09 AM   #60
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I'll bet not one single person on this forum was allowed unfettered access to a loaded firearm when they were of Kindergarten age.
You lost that bet already: I never saw a gun safe growing up, and trigger locks were unknown. Grandpa kept most all his guns behind the door to the stairs ( and I know the .22 was always loaded), and Dad's were on a gunrack over his bed .... a very few people had actual "gun cabinets", usually made as a high school wood shop project - all of them had glass fronts (and sometimes sides) and NONE of them locked..... I rode around in pickups with multitple guns in racks in the rear window or above the sunvisors (the "Outa-Site" gun rack) .... guns and ammunition were freely accessible to my siblings and me from the time we could crawl ..... but we knew not to touch them, as surely as we knew not to touch the stove in winter. Doing so would result in some immediate pain .... but I'm sure modern progressive society would consider that abuse, as well.
Again your kids may be great. Their friends were not raised by you though, and they will be around to.

To many stats of kids getting shot in this manner, for something highly preventable, and those accidents go back decades.


Quote:
Yep, I too grew up around unlocked guns, started hunting at 9yo with my own single barrel 12ga and JC Higgins 22. Dad taught us kids gun safety. And I did the same with my twin girls. As I mentioned previously they are great shots and avid shooters, and they too now have a single shot 12 ga of their own. While I trust them to do the right thing, they're still kids, good kids at that, but their guns are locked up when we're not using them. Being kids they sometimes do silly, kid type stuff. I'd be lying if I said my brother and I didn't get into some mischieve, because we were sometimes dumb kids.

The biggest factor is not a distrust of my girls, but rather my distrust of other, unwelcomed, people. Not being home 24/7, I am not going to leave our our weapons unlocked, loaded and easily accessible to make it easy for some dirt bag to steal or use on my family if they walk in on them without me.

That said, I have no problem with fellow shooters that have differing opinions on the topic. Nor will I think less of them for thinking differently than me. I don't look back and think. Jeez my parents were irresponsible, because they were not. Different times perhaps, who's to say.

Be well all.
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Old September 23, 2015, 12:07 PM   #61
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Its the 52,000 other kids that will go through your house that aren't.
I see your problem right THERE.

Nobody comes into our house unless we get asked. We don't let kids we don't know into the house. Kids we let in know not to fool with stuff that does not belong to them..... if they acted like that, they'd get booted.

Who lets ill behaved feral children into their home, or even lets their kids hang out with same?!?!?! You are the PARENT. It's the most important job you will ever do.
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Old September 23, 2015, 01:21 PM   #62
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Nobody comes into our house unless we get asked. We don't let kids we don't know into the house.
Really? Ok sure. Ever have a kid's party at the house? Know where everyone is at all times? Do you work? Someone's always home and watching? Have your kids been through Jr. High and High School yet in at least a suburban environment with lots of kids?

Quality machines break down all the time. If quality machines break down what are the chances your overwatch won't break down. Unless its zero why take the statistical chance? as someone else noted its not that the odds are low but that the stakes are high.

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Who lets ill behaved feral children into their home, or even lets their kids hang out with same?!?!?! You are the PARENT. It's the most important job you will ever do.
Why are you assuming they are ill behaved feral children? Thats not...logical. They're...children.

EDIT: Again, if thats your view great. Others have a different view and there are workable solutions to address that concern while still having a viable and efficacious strategy and timeline.

Me personally, I am not keen on the "I want to be able to instantly leap up and go bang" view, when there's other people potentially around.
I have the interesting "perk" of living in one city with the familia, and working in another during the week. At Ye Olde Family Compound, we have multiple quick open safes with pistols loaded in them. indeed the youngest (now in high school) knows the location and code for one upstairs and is obscenely good with the pistol stashed there. But everything is still locked to nonfamily members, and chances are there are anywhere from 2-9 people at any point depending on number of friends, teammates blah blah. I want to be fully aware and recognizing targets there. Plus it helps we have Dad's old tank of a mountain dog thats a freight train with teeth if he ever got mad.

Inversely where I stay when working, I have a loaded shotgun. No one has keys, access etc. but me. Anything bumping in the night is going to get buckshot without a thought.

Last edited by zincwarrior; September 23, 2015 at 02:19 PM.
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Old September 23, 2015, 03:47 PM   #63
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People are forgetting we are talking about children in general, not their children so just because they think their children are OK with firearms doesn't mean others are. So the only responsible and sensible advice is do not let young children have none supervised access to their firearms, so keep them locked up.
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Old September 23, 2015, 04:11 PM   #64
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Why are you assuming they are ill behaved feral children? Thats not...logical. They're...children.
If I understand you right, you expect children to be ill behaved. If so, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Old September 24, 2015, 07:58 AM   #65
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Maybe he just expects children to behave childishly.
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Old September 24, 2015, 08:35 AM   #66
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Two 'best practices' rules about kids and guns:
  1. Lock the guns up.
  2. Teach your children well.

The rules are based on a simple, universal truth: Human beings are NOT perfect. Neither adults nor children are perfect. We are all simply human. Being human means making mistakes.

When we lock up the guns, we make allowances for childish mistakes.

When we teach our children what to do when they find a loaded gun (and they will!), we make allowances for adultish mistakes.

Here's the process we used for teaching our five (well-behaved but definitely normal) sons what to do around guns. We started when they were barely old enough to talk, and continued adding information along with appropriate role play as they grew. The boys are all healthy young adults now -- "baby" turns 19 in November -- and they are all good shots, safe gunhandlers, and good men.

You can find details of the early part of the process here and here, and information about the later part of the process here.

Stay safe!

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Old September 24, 2015, 11:31 AM   #67
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Post #66...

....sums it up well.

Back in the day, my maternal grandfather kept a loaded revolver on the shelf of his night-stand. His son in law kept a loaded Colt .45 Automatic under his pillow. The doors of both houses were kept unlocked. We children knew where the guns were, and we knew not to touch them.

I would not do that today.

Two decades later, I kept a loaded 9MM in an unlocked drawer in the bedroom, thinking that I would be able to get to it in time of need. An eleven year old neighbor was in and out quite a bit. I showed him where the gun was kept and how it worked, told him not to touch it by himself, and told him to not mention it to anyone. He is now 52, and he is licensed to carry.

I would not do it that way today.

We have kids in and out often. My unlocked pistol stays in a holster on my belt under my shirt tail.
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Old September 24, 2015, 11:41 AM   #68
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This is a subject with no right answer. Everyone needs to assess their own situation and family.

Kathy (cornered cat) wrote a really excellent article about how to gun safe your child. I an not sure I would go this route but it is well thought out and worthy of reading.

Link to article:

http://www.corneredcat.com/article/k...ids-curiosity/

Scrolling up, I see Kathy already linked to her page. Sorry, I didn't read all two pages of post.
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Old September 24, 2015, 12:45 PM   #69
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Why are you assuming they are ill behaved feral children? Thats not...logical. They're...children.
If I understand you right, you expect children to be ill behaved. If so, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
No I expect them to be children. Curious, occasionally impulsive, and lacking in common sense because they haven't figured out what common sense is (something in line with far too many adults).

Quote:
Two 'best practices' rules about kids and guns:

Lock the guns up.
Teach your children well.


The rules are based on a simple, universal truth: Human beings are NOT perfect. Neither adults nor children are perfect. We are all simply human. Being human means making mistakes.

When we lock up the guns, we make allowances for childish mistakes.

When we teach our children what to do when they find a loaded gun (and they will!), we make allowances for adultish mistakes.

Here's the process we used for teaching our five (well-behaved but definitely normal) sons what to do around guns. We started when they were barely old enough to talk, and continued adding information along with appropriate role play as they grew. The boys are all healthy young adults now -- "baby" turns 19 in November -- and they are all good shots, safe gunhandlers, and good men.

You can find details of the early part of the process here and here, and information about the later part of the process here.

Stay safe!

pax
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Old September 24, 2015, 01:28 PM   #70
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This is a subject with no right answer.
There is a right answer never leave firearms where young children can access them unsupervised, its a no brainer.
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Old September 24, 2015, 02:07 PM   #71
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When I had a child, I stored a .38 revolver in a holster attached to my headboard. I had a speed loader in my nightstand, and a rip strip of twelve rounds behind the night stand. I could load a revolver in a second or less, loading from loose rounds a little longer.

When I switched to a 9, I kept it in the same holster, unloaded, slide back, and the magazine in my drawer. similar situation.

Yes, this was risky. I weighed my risks. First, I asked myself how likely it was that my child would gain access to the firearm, load it, and choose to mess around with it. NOT VERY LIKELY. She was not interested in guns. She was actually a little afraid of them. She was NEVER in the house alone, period. So, I felt that the risk of her causing harm was minimal, and she made it through her entire childhood without issues. Now, I keep fully loaded handguns or long guns in every conceivable room. I use glock and revolvers, a rifle, and a shotgun in the areas that they might be useful.

Why did I take the minuscule risk that my child would find the gun and use it? because I was almost certain that in a home invasion, I would fail. A lock of any sort would have stymied me if I was dragged to wakefulness. Just inserting a magazine or speed loader would have been stretching it at times. The real answer would be to wake up with a clear head, but having a firearm available immediately is still important.

There is no generic answer. One must weigh all of the risks, at all levels, and come up with the conditiion that is most comfortable to the firearm owner. the obvious part, at least it's obvious to me, is that you have only one real consideration. The chances that you will actually be involved in a life or death struggle in your own home are far slimmer than the chance that your kid may find your firearm and engage in risky behavior.

Here's a story. an old friend from high school was given a holster for christmas. He took his handgun out of the safe, and left it on his piano when he was distracted. His daugter had kids coming over for a sleepover.

The gun was never locked back up. the kids were, in any case, forbidden to enter that room.

The group wound up going into the room. One of the girls saw the revolver on the piano, ran to it, put it to her head, and fired it. There is no need to go into any further details, other than to say that my friend had a neighbor's child die in his home with his own pistol.

there was an incident in my home. My daughter had been out of the home for several years, and I had been keeping my .38 on the mantle hidden behind a clock. My niece, eighteen or so years old, came by to visit. some minutes later, she did the same thing. She spotted the pistol up on the mantle, squealed, and jumped at it. I ruptured her eardrums yelling "NO!"

My niece as always been a bit unpredictable, and goofy. I learned that childhood never ends for some people. When anyone under thirty is coming to my home, the firearms are put in a much higher level of safety. Empty, in a locked room.Even at the time of this event, it was already habit to do so, concealing and locking away all firearms. sometimes I have felt that it was necessary to hide medications as well, even though we have a two story house, and the second story is off limits.

So even I am incapable of being absolutely certain of my safety. A kid who was maybe even twenty years old was too immature to keep her hands off of my defense weapon. That was quite unexpected.
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Old October 23, 2015, 07:00 AM   #72
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Get a Gun Vault



And teach your kids to never handle firearms unsupervised.
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Old October 23, 2015, 03:29 PM   #73
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Whirlwind seems to be on the best track.
leave a mag in your bedside safe alongside your pistol and you should be fine.

De-mystifying guns is important in the long run, but younger kids have limitless curiosity and limited attention spans. Don't leave a loaded, unsecured gun anywhere. Not for a second.
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Old October 24, 2015, 10:06 PM   #74
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leave them out and watch them to see what happens..then explain it to them...if need be..consequence dangers. Why etc

if they are gona be around it shouldn't be any different than a steak knfe..youre too young to have one yet...heres why and how it works
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Old October 25, 2015, 01:39 AM   #75
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If there is a gun out of the safe, it is secured on my person in a holster. Otherwise they are all locked up in a safe.

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