91/30 and bullet drop

Coyote WT · April 7, 2011, 02:02 PM

I was researching some ammo and found a trajectory chart the was rather enlightening. I'm still in the first stages of training the basics like trigger and breath control but I'd noticed that at 100 yards I was striking pretty consistantly high. The chart I found indicated that at 100 yards with this ammo the bullet was about 5" higher than the elevation of the barrel and it wasn't until 200 yards that the bullet was back at zero elevation on its drop.

Is this something other Mosin Nagant shooters have noticed?

catzor · April 7, 2011, 02:22 PM

Sure have. AFAIK, they're all sighted for 200 yards. I seem to hit about an inch or two high at 100 usually.

Coyote WT · April 7, 2011, 02:33 PM

I can't wait until I'm only an inch off target! To date I've fired less than 100 rounds so I'm still on the slow uphill climb to proficiency. Right now I'm averaging about 5 inches off. Now that I know what's going on, I may be able to bring my group, such that it is, into center area at least.

kraigwy · April 7, 2011, 02:35 PM

Most Mosins shoot high. For what ever reason I'll leave to internet gossip, like they were designed to be fired with the bayonet attached.

What ever, I don't shoot with bayonets and I do want my rifles to shoot where they are suppose to. I believe in shooting hair not air.

Also I shoot and teach CMP-GSM games. Per CMP rules you can't use bayonets.

Now back to the problem. For every inch you need to move on the Mosin you need to move the front or rear sight .0061 inches. If they shoot high, then its hard to add height to the front sight so we need to lower the rear sight. I also want to be able to use range marks on the Mosin rear sight, meaning if its set at 100 yards (or meters) I want to hit at 100 yards.

So what to do:

My Mosin shot 8 inches high. I need to lower the rear sight .0488 (8 X .0061)

I took the rear sight off the rifle and milled .0488 off the bottom of the slider which will allow it to set .0488 lower on the base. I put it back on my rifle and discovered it hits on at 100 when set at 100, 200 when set on 200, etc etc to 400 yards (farthest I can shoot on my back pasture range).

A milling machine works best, but a file or grinder will work if you are careful to keep it level and not take off too much.

Don H · April 7, 2011, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraigwy

I put it back on my rifle and discovered it hits on at 100 when set at 100, 200 when set on 200, etc etc to 400 yards (farthest I can shoot on my back pasture range).

This raises the question of just what units of measurement those numbers represent. Are the sights calibrated in meters, arshins or ells? Anybody have any insight on this?

Coyote WT · April 7, 2011, 04:00 PM

Nice! I think that's a little out of my wheel house at this point but any advise on sighting from someone with sniper trainer is damn good advice. Thank you.

kraigwy · April 7, 2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Are the sights calibrated in meters, arshins or ells? Anybody have any insight on this?

Got me, I'm an American I use yards. Seems to work.

TGDKY · April 7, 2011, 04:52 PM

Were m44's the same way? Or was this just the 91/30s? Haven't shot mine out that far yet so ill be interested to see.i

mrgoodwrench76 · April 7, 2011, 04:58 PM

My M44 is the same way. About 1 1/2 high @ 100 yards.

Kraigwy - How hard was it to remove the pivot pin for the rear sight? I've been considering doing this but my sight base has a hairline crack and I'm leary of driving out the pin.

kraigwy · April 7, 2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Kraigwy - How hard was it to remove the pivot pin for the rear sight?

Mine was real easy, no problem at all.

But you can check here if you need to replace your sight base or sight.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/...x?filter=mosin rear sight&catid=3256

Kappy · April 18, 2011, 02:36 AM

My understanding is that Mosins are sighted in at 100 meters, which is 109 yards. That's as close as they were intended to shoot. One story I heard was that when they weren't going to war, they took the time to sight some in and reject those which didn't shoot worth a darn... three shots within an inch was what I heard, but I don't believe it.

jhenry · April 18, 2011, 08:06 AM

They did do that, but it was selection for rifles to be converted to sniper use.

Kappy · April 18, 2011, 01:06 PM

Supposedly it was also the M39s and some other Fins. Again, unsure if this is actually true. You never know. A lot of the history has been lost.

Taskarnin · April 18, 2011, 02:34 PM

From what I've read, different factories sited guns differently. A good mosin resource I've found is:

www.7.62x54r.net

they go over some of the different siting configurations the factories did, try shooting with a few in mind and you'll figure yours out.

some were sited to hit center with the site on the outer circle of the bullseye on a 100yd target (about an inch and a half high like some have been saying). Some were sited to hit right on the top of the site at 100. There are also some other variations.

Darren007 · April 18, 2011, 02:42 PM

Quote:

This raises the question of just what units of measurement those numbers represent. Are the sights calibrated in meters, arshins or ells? Anybody have any insight on this?

Any Mosin manufactured after the Soviets took over use meters. Many of the pre-soviet era Mosins were also converted to meters.

Everything you could ever want to know about the Mosin Nagant and its variants can be found here..

http://7.62x54r.net/

Oops...somebody already beat me to it!

Coyote WT · April 18, 2011, 09:16 PM

I love that web site. It has a lot of good info on everything from factory ID stamps to the specs of various surplus ammo.

.300 Weatherby Mag · April 19, 2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

arshins

I have an M91 that has the sight graduated in Arshins... Gives me a headache doing the conversion to yards... My 91/30 is in meters..

Scarecrow78 · October 29, 2011, 04:31 PM

It's my understanding that most of the 91/30 rifles we have are in meters because the old rear sights were replaced when the arsenal refurbished them. http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures02.htm If you have an older rifle with a "hex" receiver and a flat style rear sight, it may have been replaced with meters. If it is curved it may be in the original arshini.

jimbob86 · October 29, 2011, 04:49 PM

.... for $99 bucks, why not?

Mine gave me a 4" group centered about 2" left of center (lots of 7's, 8's and 9's on a NRA 100 yard smallbore target...... until I put the bayonet on it: then the group moved a foot low and left.

April 7, 2011, 02:02 PM	#1
Coyote WT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Location: Woodinville WA (north of Seattle) Posts: 147	91/30 and bullet drop I was researching some ammo and found a trajectory chart the was rather enlightening. I'm still in the first stages of training the basics like trigger and breath control but I'd noticed that at 100 yards I was striking pretty consistantly high. The chart I found indicated that at 100 yards with this ammo the bullet was about 5" higher than the elevation of the barrel and it wasn't until 200 yards that the bullet was back at zero elevation on its drop. Is this something other Mosin Nagant shooters have noticed?

April 7, 2011, 02:35 PM	#4
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Most Mosins shoot high. For what ever reason I'll leave to internet gossip, like they were designed to be fired with the bayonet attached. What ever, I don't shoot with bayonets and I do want my rifles to shoot where they are suppose to. I believe in shooting hair not air. Also I shoot and teach CMP-GSM games. Per CMP rules you can't use bayonets. Now back to the problem. For every inch you need to move on the Mosin you need to move the front or rear sight .0061 inches. If they shoot high, then its hard to add height to the front sight so we need to lower the rear sight. I also want to be able to use range marks on the Mosin rear sight, meaning if its set at 100 yards (or meters) I want to hit at 100 yards. So what to do: My Mosin shot 8 inches high. I need to lower the rear sight .0488 (8 X .0061) I took the rear sight off the rifle and milled .0488 off the bottom of the slider which will allow it to set .0488 lower on the base. I put it back on my rifle and discovered it hits on at 100 when set at 100, 200 when set on 200, etc etc to 400 yards (farthest I can shoot on my back pasture range). A milling machine works best, but a file or grinder will work if you are careful to keep it level and not take off too much. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

April 7, 2011, 04:00 PM	#6
Coyote WT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Location: Woodinville WA (north of Seattle) Posts: 147	milling the sight Nice! I think that's a little out of my wheel house at this point but any advise on sighting from someone with sniper trainer is damn good advice. Thank you.

April 7, 2011, 04:52 PM	#8
TGDKY Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Posts: 135	Were m44's the same way? Or was this just the 91/30s? Haven't shot mine out that far yet so ill be interested to see.i __________________ ‘‘To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them...’’ “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”

April 7, 2011, 04:58 PM	#9
mrgoodwrench76 Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 487	My M44 is the same way. About 1 1/2 high @ 100 yards. Kraigwy - How hard was it to remove the pivot pin for the rear sight? I've been considering doing this but my sight base has a hairline crack and I'm leary of driving out the pin. __________________ God Bless America!!

April 7, 2011, 02:22 PM	#2
catzor Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2010 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 104	Sure have. AFAIK, they're all sighted for 200 yards. I seem to hit about an inch or two high at 100 usually.

April 7, 2011, 02:33 PM	#3
Coyote WT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Location: Woodinville WA (north of Seattle) Posts: 147	I can't wait until I'm only an inch off target! To date I've fired less than 100 rounds so I'm still on the slow uphill climb to proficiency. Right now I'm averaging about 5 inches off. Now that I know what's going on, I may be able to bring my group, such that it is, into center area at least.

April 18, 2011, 02:36 AM	#11
Kappy Junior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Posts: 6	My understanding is that Mosins are sighted in at 100 meters, which is 109 yards. That's as close as they were intended to shoot. One story I heard was that when they weren't going to war, they took the time to sight some in and reject those which didn't shoot worth a darn... three shots within an inch was what I heard, but I don't believe it.

April 18, 2011, 08:06 AM	#12
jhenry Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 1,840	They did do that, but it was selection for rifles to be converted to sniper use. __________________ "A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer

April 18, 2011, 01:06 PM	#13
Kappy Junior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Posts: 6	Supposedly it was also the M39s and some other Fins. Again, unsure if this is actually true. You never know. A lot of the history has been lost.

April 18, 2011, 02:34 PM	#14
Taskarnin Junior Member Join Date: April 15, 2011 Posts: 6	From what I've read, different factories sited guns differently. A good mosin resource I've found is: www.7.62x54r.net they go over some of the different siting configurations the factories did, try shooting with a few in mind and you'll figure yours out. some were sited to hit center with the site on the outer circle of the bullseye on a 100yd target (about an inch and a half high like some have been saying). Some were sited to hit right on the top of the site at 100. There are also some other variations. Last edited by Taskarnin; April 18, 2011 at 02:39 PM. Reason: additional info

April 18, 2011, 09:16 PM	#16
Coyote WT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Location: Woodinville WA (north of Seattle) Posts: 147	I love that web site. It has a lot of good info on everything from factory ID stamps to the specs of various surplus ammo.

October 29, 2011, 04:31 PM	#18
Scarecrow78 Junior Member Join Date: October 29, 2011 Location: Illinios, USA Posts: 1	It's my understanding that most of the 91/30 rifles we have are in meters because the old rear sights were replaced when the arsenal refurbished them. http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures02.htm If you have an older rifle with a "hex" receiver and a flat style rear sight, it may have been replaced with meters. If it is curved it may be in the original arshini.

October 29, 2011, 04:49 PM	#19
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Just got one..... .... for $99 bucks, why not? Mine gave me a 4" group centered about 2" left of center (lots of 7's, 8's and 9's on a NRA 100 yard smallbore target...... until I put the bayonet on it: then the group moved a foot low and left.