When you can't carry, less than lethal options - Page 4

Providence · January 9, 2011, 04:08 PM

Several people have mentioned canes for self defense, and added that you need training. Where would you get training to use a cane for self defense? Would a self-defense course cover this?

Sorry if this is a dumb question.

xMINORxTHREATx · January 9, 2011, 04:22 PM

Kali is a martial arts form that uses short sticks. I would think that would work.

Or hire Mark McGwire to teach you how to swing it.

egor20 · January 9, 2011, 05:07 PM

Where would you get training to use a cane for self defense? Would a self-defense course cover this?

Look around at the Martial Arts clubs where you live and check if they teach "French Savate" fighting, if they say I think so?, then hang up, and check the next listing. Its not a widely taught martial art.

xMINORxTHREATx · January 9, 2011, 06:33 PM

There is a great one Egor, french savate is devastating but rare.

pax · January 9, 2011, 08:35 PM

Cane companies I can recommend:

Americancane

Cane Masters

I'm sure there are lots more, but I've handled products from both of those places and found them very sturdy and durable. They ain't your grandma's dimestore cane.

The Cane Masters website features links to recommended dojos and schools. Also, the "offset T" design on some Americancane products closely mimics the shape and function of a PR-24 baton familiar to police officers.

pax

egor20 · January 9, 2011, 08:45 PM

+1 for pax

I can also vouch personally for the Cold Steel Blackthorn, never had to use it offensively, and I'm sure a BG is glad I never had to.

markj · January 11, 2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

You may have heard of Zahra Baker in Hickory, NC

A sad tale for sure.

Ruark · January 12, 2011, 09:47 AM

I would go with pepper spray, with a few caveats. First, 90% of the pepper spray on the market is junk. The best you can get is by Fox Labs, the "cone mist" type, NOT the stream. This stuff has been described as feeling like "somebody dumped a spoonful of fireants on each eyeball." There are numerous YouTube videos of people getting sprayed with this stuff.

There are NO devices that don't have to be used properly, however. If you're using pepper spray, for example, DON'T hold it out in front of you at arm's length, where your attacker can anticipate it or knock it out of your hand. Put your finger on the button, but keep it concealed so you can spray him by surprise at just the right moment.

DON'T carry your pepper spray or defense tool on your keychain! If it gets dropped, thrown or broken in a struggle in a dark parking lot, you're stranded out there without your keys. Also, it will take longer to get the device positioned in your hand if it's tangled up with a dozen keys and Las Vegas key fobs.

Be AGGRESSIVE! ATTACK your assailant, SAVAGELY! This is what a lot of people don't prepare for psychologically. Go into "animal mode." ATTACK! DESTROY!

When the spray hits and he raises his hands, kick the HELL out of his kneecap, and I mean HARD. Kick it CLEAR INTO THE NEXT COUNTY! When he drops his hands instinctively in reaction, soak his face with it again. When he raises his hands back to his face, kick the other kneecap, or wallop him with a club or rock or something. I mean, just beat the living CRAP out of him!! You get the picture. Trust me, if you don't, he WILL do it to YOU.

Whatever you use, use it as a TOOL to enable you to disable the attacker, so you can safely get away. But without that focused, self-defense mindset, it's worthless. It's not like you go to the store, buy it, stick it in your purse or pocket, and everything's peachy.

blueridgerunner · January 15, 2011, 07:24 PM

I have a heavy oak "stockman's cane". The handle or crook is slightly larger (enough to fit around a neck) and the cane itself is about 1" in diameter. It WILL f*** you up if used properly. Several dvds, books as well as in person training available, just search for cane fighting. The best part is you can carry one pretty much anywhere. Just say you have an old football injury or such

ncpatriot · January 15, 2011, 10:33 PM

I just looked at the cane websites. Some neat canes, high dollar for some of them too. I've never carried a cane but if I did, I think I'd carry one a little less conspicuous than some of them. I would think security people are less likely to question an ordinary looking cane than 1 that begs attention, just a thought. A slick shiny one might also draw the attention of more thieves.

But I can see how the cane would be a great weapon. Can hit, jab, block, trip, etc. How about this; remove rubber cap, drill a hole about 2 inches into the shaft, replace cap. If situation arises (time permitting), remove cap, place pencil in hole. Presto, you have a makeshift spear.

ncpatriot · January 15, 2011, 10:52 PM

Quote:

So, what good is lighter? I'm curious.

Well Glenn, it would be good to light whatever you've been smoking lately. You've made some really off the wall posts here.

Seriously; the lighter may not be needed at all. But it is cheap, small, light & easy to carry. There are moments when fire is needed. If the plane crashed somewhere rural, it may take awhile to be rescued. A fire might be needed if weather is cold, if plane can't provide shelter & heat. Not a big chance of it, but it's been known to happen. If no flares on board, a lighter could easily light a signal fire for a search plane to spot.

In a hijacking situation, it may be handy to light a paper cup or wrapper to make smoke & distract one of the BG's.

Don't you ever watch any movies? You could learn something.

ncpatriot · January 15, 2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Trust me, if you don't he WILL do it to you.

How right you are. As civilized people, we tend to forget sometimes and assume others are civilized too. A fight with a BG is a battle for survival. Fair play is for baseball & card games. I think that is one of the weaknesses of liberals. They assume everyone is basically good & plays by the rules. If a BG mistreats them, they think being nice to him will calm him down & help him "see the light". While that could possibly happen, I don't want to be the test case for it. If someone has gotten warped enough to threaten me with harm or death, he's dangerous & must be handled as such. BG's are like wolves & get bolder seeing fear or weakness.

I remember a female student pastor at a former church. Sweet woman & mostly smart, but trusting as a sheep. A hostage hostage arose in an office building. Police sharpshooter nailed the gunman. Was talk of the town. Some of us discussed it at church & she nearly cried; said "they didn't have to shoot him". I asked her what they should have done. Gunman had several hostages in an office, threatening to kill them at any moment. She couldn't think of another course of action they should have tried.

blueridgerunner · January 16, 2011, 09:00 AM

Stockman's cane can be found at farm supply stores. I got mine from eBay where a guy hand makes oak canes. In the comment section I mentioned stockman's cane and he sent one with a slightly larger opening in the handle.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HANDCRAFTED-OAK-...item53e57f76a4

Jamas · January 16, 2011, 10:16 AM

+1 for flashlight...
I have worked in prisons for a while now and we can't carry anything. Except; huge set of brass keys, good size radio, pen/pencil, and I always have my surefire flashlight. In a fight you will use whatever you can, and I have used them all.

triumph666 · January 18, 2011, 12:43 AM

i found out that a hi power stun gun can deter some people.....at a bar outside i pulled my stun gun on a guy that was assaulting a friend of mine after i threw him off my friend.

i grinned and giggled and lit up the stun gun, he called me some bad names, but for some reason wouldnt come within arms reach of me lol. sounds stupid but with my shoulders messed up i seriously got to have a good alco buzz to start throwing punches or i'll scream louder than the guy i hit haha

but seriously the crackling sound and the fact a good stun gun lights up the parking lot will let someone know he could be in for a shocking experience if he doesnt head off

markj · January 18, 2011, 04:46 PM

In Iowa a stun gun is considered a dangerous weapon and you need the permit to carry one legally, so may as well carry the gun it will do better.

I would also stay out of bars and places where young folks gather and drink.

Eagle0711 · January 20, 2011, 07:09 PM

Just a thought about canes. I took my son and grandaughter to the air port I noticed a large stack of wooden cane behind the TSA area. I guess those agents read these forums also.

A folding knife, while not allowed on an airplane a knife can be carried and used where guns are banned.

It doesn't have to be used in a deadly fashion. A butt stroke, or used as a roll of quarters without even opening it. Even if you open it a cut to the hand will make your attacker drop his weapon. JMHO

therewolf · January 21, 2011, 09:25 PM

Well, when my cousin's not hijacking planes with them, I try to borrow his NAILCLIPPERS...

January 9, 2011, 04:22 PM	#77
xMINORxTHREATx Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2010 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 286	Kali is a martial arts form that uses short sticks. I would think that would work. Or hire Mark McGwire to teach you how to swing it. __________________ Glaine ár gcroí Neart ár ngéag Agus beart de réir ár mbriathar

January 9, 2011, 05:07 PM	#78
egor20 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2010 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,824	Providence Where would you get training to use a cane for self defense? Would a self-defense course cover this? Look around at the Martial Arts clubs where you live and check if they teach "French Savate" fighting, if they say I think so?, then hang up, and check the next listing. Its not a widely taught martial art. __________________ Chief stall mucker and grain chef Country don't mean dumb. Steven King. The Stand

January 9, 2011, 06:33 PM	#79
xMINORxTHREATx Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2010 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 286	There is a great one Egor, french savate is devastating but rare. __________________ Glaine ár gcroí Neart ár ngéag Agus beart de réir ár mbriathar

January 9, 2011, 08:35 PM	#80
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Cane companies I can recommend: Americancane Cane Masters I'm sure there are lots more, but I've handled products from both of those places and found them very sturdy and durable. They ain't your grandma's dimestore cane. The Cane Masters website features links to recommended dojos and schools. Also, the "offset T" design on some Americancane products closely mimics the shape and function of a PR-24 baton familiar to police officers. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

January 9, 2011, 08:45 PM	#81
egor20 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2010 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,824	+1 for pax I can also vouch personally for the Cold Steel Blackthorn, never had to use it offensively, and I'm sure a BG is glad I never had to. __________________ Chief stall mucker and grain chef Country don't mean dumb. Steven King. The Stand

January 9, 2011, 04:08 PM	#76
Providence Junior Member Join Date: August 26, 2010 Posts: 13	Several people have mentioned canes for self defense, and added that you need training. Where would you get training to use a cane for self defense? Would a self-defense course cover this? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

January 12, 2011, 09:47 AM	#83
Ruark Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2010 Posts: 227	I would go with pepper spray, with a few caveats. First, 90% of the pepper spray on the market is junk. The best you can get is by Fox Labs, the "cone mist" type, NOT the stream. This stuff has been described as feeling like "somebody dumped a spoonful of fireants on each eyeball." There are numerous YouTube videos of people getting sprayed with this stuff. There are NO devices that don't have to be used properly, however. If you're using pepper spray, for example, DON'T hold it out in front of you at arm's length, where your attacker can anticipate it or knock it out of your hand. Put your finger on the button, but keep it concealed so you can spray him by surprise at just the right moment. DON'T carry your pepper spray or defense tool on your keychain! If it gets dropped, thrown or broken in a struggle in a dark parking lot, you're stranded out there without your keys. Also, it will take longer to get the device positioned in your hand if it's tangled up with a dozen keys and Las Vegas key fobs. Be AGGRESSIVE! ATTACK your assailant, SAVAGELY! This is what a lot of people don't prepare for psychologically. Go into "animal mode." ATTACK! DESTROY! When the spray hits and he raises his hands, kick the HELL out of his kneecap, and I mean HARD. Kick it CLEAR INTO THE NEXT COUNTY! When he drops his hands instinctively in reaction, soak his face with it again. When he raises his hands back to his face, kick the other kneecap, or wallop him with a club or rock or something. I mean, just beat the living CRAP out of him!! You get the picture. Trust me, if you don't, he WILL do it to YOU. Whatever you use, use it as a TOOL to enable you to disable the attacker, so you can safely get away. But without that focused, self-defense mindset, it's worthless. It's not like you go to the store, buy it, stick it in your purse or pocket, and everything's peachy.

January 15, 2011, 07:24 PM	#84
blueridgerunner Member Join Date: March 23, 2010 Posts: 27	I have a heavy oak "stockman's cane". The handle or crook is slightly larger (enough to fit around a neck) and the cane itself is about 1" in diameter. It WILL f*** you up if used properly. Several dvds, books as well as in person training available, just search for cane fighting. The best part is you can carry one pretty much anywhere. Just say you have an old football injury or such

January 15, 2011, 10:33 PM	#85
ncpatriot Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 371	I just looked at the cane websites. Some neat canes, high dollar for some of them too. I've never carried a cane but if I did, I think I'd carry one a little less conspicuous than some of them. I would think security people are less likely to question an ordinary looking cane than 1 that begs attention, just a thought. A slick shiny one might also draw the attention of more thieves. But I can see how the cane would be a great weapon. Can hit, jab, block, trip, etc. How about this; remove rubber cap, drill a hole about 2 inches into the shaft, replace cap. If situation arises (time permitting), remove cap, place pencil in hole. Presto, you have a makeshift spear. __________________ Remember the American heroes of Flight 93.

January 16, 2011, 09:00 AM	#88
blueridgerunner Member Join Date: March 23, 2010 Posts: 27	canes Stockman's cane can be found at farm supply stores. I got mine from eBay where a guy hand makes oak canes. In the comment section I mentioned stockman's cane and he sent one with a slightly larger opening in the handle. http://cgi.ebay.com/HANDCRAFTED-OAK-...item53e57f76a4

January 16, 2011, 10:16 AM	#89
Jamas Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 154	+1 for flashlight... I have worked in prisons for a while now and we can't carry anything. Except; huge set of brass keys, good size radio, pen/pencil, and I always have my surefire flashlight. In a fight you will use whatever you can, and I have used them all.

January 18, 2011, 12:43 AM	#90
triumph666 Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2011 Posts: 374	non lethal defense i found out that a hi power stun gun can deter some people.....at a bar outside i pulled my stun gun on a guy that was assaulting a friend of mine after i threw him off my friend. i grinned and giggled and lit up the stun gun, he called me some bad names, but for some reason wouldnt come within arms reach of me lol. sounds stupid but with my shoulders messed up i seriously got to have a good alco buzz to start throwing punches or i'll scream louder than the guy i hit haha but seriously the crackling sound and the fact a good stun gun lights up the parking lot will let someone know he could be in for a shocking experience if he doesnt head off Last edited by Capt. Charlie; January 18, 2011 at 01:43 PM. Reason: Deleted attempts to bypass the language filters. Please don't do that.

January 18, 2011, 04:46 PM	#91
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	In Iowa a stun gun is considered a dangerous weapon and you need the permit to carry one legally, so may as well carry the gun it will do better. I would also stay out of bars and places where young folks gather and drink.

January 20, 2011, 07:09 PM	#92
Eagle0711 Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2010 Posts: 782	Just a thought about canes. I took my son and grandaughter to the air port I noticed a large stack of wooden cane behind the TSA area. I guess those agents read these forums also. A folding knife, while not allowed on an airplane a knife can be carried and used where guns are banned. It doesn't have to be used in a deadly fashion. A butt stroke, or used as a roll of quarters without even opening it. Even if you open it a cut to the hand will make your attacker drop his weapon. JMHO

January 21, 2011, 09:25 PM	#93
therewolf Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2011 Posts: 133	Well, when my cousin's not hijacking planes with them, I try to borrow his NAILCLIPPERS...

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