Whats the best Safety type for a Combat Shotgun?

[Smoke Screen]

Hey guys, this one's for the boys who've been trained with tactical shotguns. Looking to build a combat shotgun but here's my question: Which type of safety do you find better in a combat situation? The thumb safety as found on the top rear of the receiver like on the Mossy 500's, OR the trigger guard safety as found in the Remy 870's? Which one do you LEO's, Military, Swat guys prefer? I realize I might get different opinions as most LEO's probably use the 870 and the military uses the 500.

The reason I ask is that I'd like to put on a full-pistol grip stock but it seems to me that if you have the grip down below, you'd have to take your hand off the grip to engage/disengage the thumb safety. The Mossberg feels better to me though, so maybe I should look at a thumbhole/different stock if I choose the Mossberg? Thanks in advance guys.

[Dwight55]

Just as a tip, . . . if you have a friend who has a pistol grip shotgun, . . . ask him if you can shoot it.

Get a box or two of the type ammo you plan on using, . . . go to the range and try it out.

I know very, very few individuals who can and would use a pistol grip 12 ga with full house 00 buck or slugs. You may be an exception, . . . and you may save yourself some pain and cash.

May God bless,
Dwight

[tlm225]

By full pistol grip stock I'm assuming that you mean a full stock with a pistol grip.

That's going to be a awkward to use with a mossberg style safety.

If you mean just a pistol grip and no stock, that brings additional problems in addition to accessing the safety.

[freqlord]

Being military myself, we're taught to never EVER take your firing hand off the grip. Your non-firing hand does all the work. Now with a Mossberg 500, that safety is in a hard to reach place, and in the event that your home was being invaded, would you want to hold that pistol grip shotgun with one hand? Would you be able to balance it as you disengaged the safety? Granted, you could do it with your thumb, I usually do, but it still puts your hand in an awkward firing position.
My vote goes to the 870. The safety being right there means it's a quick push of a button with your trigger finger, which is done in the blink of an eye vs. changing your grip to disengage the safety.

[oneounceload]

Personally, the BEST safety is the one between your ears - NO shotgun safeties are fool proof or even close, especially regarding drops.

[Achilles11B]

I own a Mossberg 500 with pistol grip, and have no problem with safety manipulation or shooting 00 buck or slugs. I prefer the tang safety of the Mossberg because I think the crossbolt safety doesn't agree too well with left-handed firers like myself. The key is practice, practice, practice.

[Smoke Screen]

Sweet, thanks for the input so far... @Dwight55, tlm225 is correct. I would NEVER use just the pistol grip for a shot gun. My LEO daddy trained me better than that. Yes, I've shot one before...not w/slugs or buck shot mind you, and I didn't care for it at all. I don't know why ppl use those things. I'm referring to a FULL stock WITH the pistola grip

Again, I prefer the Mossberg so far. I do have an old 20 ga remington with the crossbolt safety, and I use it once a month for Quail, Dove, Rabbit, etc... so I'm used to it. BUT the Mossberg feels so much better to me, barrels seem cheaper and I do prefer the tang safety. So to @freqlord...... The military taught you to disengage the safety with the non-grip hand and return it to the fore end to work the pump (cause doesn't the military use 500)? Just curious here, its great to hear it from people who've been there. I would hate to have a plan in mind just to find out...."Hey! This set up sucks!" So thanks for the input fellas. @Achilles11B I'm a righty so I don't have the crossbolt problem...I can see how you would though! My uncle is left handed.

[LordTio3]

I don't know if I'd worry about it too much. I've also been taught to never take my "firing hand" off of the weapon. Once you get your grip, death grip it. That weapon is your lifeline. To let go of it is to let go of life. Yadda yadda yadda. Sure makes pulling the charging handle on an AK pretty akward. I'd consider it much more akward than dropping the safety on a Mossberg 500 series.

I have personally shot a Mossy 500 with Only the pistol grip (no buttstock). It isn't pleasant on your wrist. But the technique that I used to get the safety off was:
1. Point the weapon in the direction of fire.
2. Support the weapon's weight with your fire grip while you bend your support arm beneath the weapon (like dracula hides his face behind his cape)
3. Rest the weapon in the crook of your elbow while you reach around and thumb (finger) off the safety with your support hand.
4. Return to normal grip.

Hope this helps you.

~LT

[thesheepdog]

I say the trigger safety is better by far.

[Webleymkv]

With a pistol grip, the Remington-type safety will be much easier to work. However, if you keep your shotgun "cruiser ready" (safety off, empty chamber, hammer uncocked, full magazine) you will take the safety out of the equation as all you'll have to do is rack the pump.

[freqlord]

"The military taught you to disengage the safety with the non-grip hand and return it to the fore end to work the pump (cause doesn't the military use 500)? Just curious here, its great to hear it from people who've been there. I would hate to have a plan in mind just to find out...."Hey! This set up sucks!"

Ha, let's just hope you don't have to find out the hard way. From the few I've seen over here, they've been carrying the 870, but then I saw a couple of Navy folks carrying the 500. The guy carrying the 500 also tried to talk about how cool it was that my SAW had a 20 gauge shotgun barrel underneath the 5.56 barrel

[freqlord]

He thought my gas tube was a shotgun barrel.
I say Hooyah Shipmate!

[thesheepdog]

He thought my gas tube was a shotgun barrel.

And this guy passed bootcamp?

[freqlord]

Exactly! I don't know how he did it either!

[WeedWacker]

For me, I've always found it more convenient to use my right hand for fire controls and shooting and my left for loading/working the action. With a tactical pistol grip (not the tradtional pistol grip standard on a basic 870 or 500A) I have found the mossberg controls to be difficult to work. The tang safety being worked with the left hand can block my field of vision unless I remove the stock from my shoulder, and the pump release is difficult to manipulate without removing my firing hand to say the least. I would prefer the Benelli controls on a tac shotgun second to the Remington, and that's purely based on the crossbar safety position alone, Benelli ahead of the trigger, Remington behind. If I had a standard pistol grip (not tactical) I would prefer the Mossberg tang safety and pump slide release controls, they are separate, far apart, and are less likely to be mixed up in a high stress situation. (The Benelli safety is right behind the pump slide release and I could see someone operating the slide instead of flipping off the safety while under duress, but training can reduce that probability. You do weird things under pressure. I recently turned on my turn signal instead of honking at someone who almost ran me off the road. I was driving beyond "condition white"...)

My ideal would be a Benelli with the tac pistol grip with a Mossberg standard grip as a backup if I was limited to shotguns only for defensive purposes and utility hunting. If I couldn't have the Benelli I'd want the Remington as the primary, but I will not compromise on the Mossberg. It may be slower but I have never had one fail on me (had a Rem 870 firing pin freeze solid in winter once because of blowing snow)

[Smoke Screen]

Sweet, thanks for the input fellas. & to Webleymkv good idea on the cruiser ready system. Might try that one out. I'd love to be able to afford a combat shotgun course!

[skydiver3346]

The Tang Safety is the best in my opinion.

[xMINORxTHREATx]

I just did a quick google search to try to find this again, but alas, I couldn't.

Once upon a time I saw an attachment that let you use a tang (mossberg 500) safety with the thumb of your firing hand. It was a metal tab that wrapped around the side of the receiver so you and can push it with your thumb, therefore pushing the safety forward or back. That might solve some of your safety issues.

I say, go with the Mossy. I'm biased though, because I carried one while serving. I have a Mossy 500 Special Purpose, full length tube mag, heat shield, ghost ring sights, receiver mounted shell holder, but I'm using the regular stock and foregrip.... for now =]

Found a kit online you might be interested in, although its for the pre-2008 model year 500's. It comes with an M4 style stock, tri-rail foregrip, and shell holder for like $80. I will try to find the link and PM it to you.

[ML41887]

Here's my take on it...Leave the safety off and don't leave one in the chamber. Then all you have to do is cycle the weapon. Put 7 in the tube and that should be plenty. If that doesn't do it then you're in deep trouble and may need to reevaluate your decision on where to live or who to associate with. If you expect more than 4...I'd invest in a street sweeper or AA12 and a sidekick I have an old HK M1 Super 90 and that's what I do.

[rburch]

I don't know if I'd worry about it too much. I've also been taught to never take my "firing hand" off of the weapon. Once you get your grip, death grip it. That weapon is your lifeline. To let go of it is to let go of life. Yadda yadda yadda. Sure makes pulling the charging handle on an AK pretty akward. I'd consider it much more akward than dropping the safety on a Mossberg 500 series.

LordTio3, what if you're shooting a bolt or lever action? Not trying to take us too far off topic, just pointing out there are exceptions to ever rule.

Personally I have a 500, and I normally keep the magtube loaded chamber empty. I can grab it pump a round into the chamber and it's good to go, so I don't have to worry about finding the safety under stress.

Only time I use the safety is out on the range.

[fATAL]

The only safety I use for any of my home defense weaps is simply the empty chamber or open breech storage. I then practice my dry fire multi angle multi position engagement remember if you live in a single story drop to a knee before you fire.

If you are becoming some lone ranger making a tac 500, considering the many nice choices in semi autos out there you are way off a saiga 20 12 will cover all options really folding semi high cap ...

[Deaf Smith]

Most shotgun safeties are NOT REALLY DROP SAFE. They usually block only the trigger and if the parts are old or badly worn things can go bang.

But... an old post on this site said:

MILITARY SPECIFICATION, SHOTGUN, 12 GAGE, RIOT-TYPE

3.17.6 Rouqh handlinq. Shotguns shall be capable of
withstanding the impact when dropped from a height of four feet
onto a hard surface without causing the weapon to be unsafe or
unserviceable. This shall apply throughout the temperature range
of -20 to +120"F. Type I shotguns shall include M7 bayonet and
scabbard as specified in 3.3.1.b.

4.6.7 Rouqh handlinq. After completion of the performance
test, three weapons shall be chosen and subjected to the rough
handling test. Each weapon will have the safety a primed
cartridge case in the chamber and a fully loaded magazine. One
weapon shall be conditioned at -20"F, one at ambient and one at
+120°F for a minimum of four hours prior to the test. The
weapons shall be dropped a minimum distance of four feet (lowest
point on the weapon to the drop surface) in each of the following
five modes: butt end down, right side down, left side down, top
side down, and 45 degree angle with vertical plane - butt end
down. The drop surface shall be 85 + 5 Durometer (Shore A)
rubber mat, one inch thick, backed by concrete. At the test's
conclusion, the weapon must be safe and serviceable and the
primed shell shall not have fired.

The Performance test is not clearly outlined, but I believe it is the Endurance test:

4.6.5 Endurance test. Shotguns shall be tested for endurance requirement (see 3.17.5) by firing 3000 rounds of ammunition.

[JollyRoger]

I'm partial to the 870, having been trained on that model & carried it for a number of years. Our issue weapon has the standard stock, however. If you're using a pistol grip full stock, I think your hand is likely to be closer to the trigger guard in such a position that the safety button will be too close. In that situation, you might have to contort your index finger to hit it. With a pistol grip stock, you might be better served with a safety on the front of the trigger guard (Does Winchester have that?). I have a Mossberg and the safety setup is adequate, but once again, it is really designed for a conventional stock, not a pistol grip.

[Smoke Screen]

Thanks again for all the input gang. @xMinorxThreatx thanks for the PM. I might go with the 500 from walmart. I saw a 410 and 20 ga there for only $217! The guys didn't have a 500 but said I could buy one online and site-to-store ship it, but they don't let you get guns online. Hmmm...anyhow. To @fATAL I would love to get a Saiga 12, but its a little out of my price range right now.

Just for kicks, have any of you seen this video series by Magpul? Art of the Dynamic Shotgun, and looks pretty intense! Wish I had this training under my belt! ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XCv0X6SqUg

[xMINORxTHREATx]

Dude. I wanna do that training. Our shotgun training was nothing, NOTHING like that. lol