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Old May 16, 2011, 07:35 AM   #26
cracked butt
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I use a beam scale and weigh every charge for rounds I require to be more accurate. For just plinking and general use, a scoop or my Lee Perfect Powder Measure does just fine.
Have you seen any accuracy differences between loads that were weighed and loads that were measured with the Lee Dipper?
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Old May 16, 2011, 09:14 AM   #27
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For me the difference is not enough to notice but I'm not shooting 1,000 yards or off a bench rest. I load for self defense and practice for self defense so I'm minute of people. I just like the idea of not using a scale except for figuring out how much my dipper is dumping. Then the scale goes back on the shelf to gather dust for a year or two. As for the light loads, compared to the chart, I just scoop and "heap" if necessary to get what I need. The keey is, however you use the dippers, you must have a repeatable technique.

Last edited by jmortimer; May 16, 2011 at 09:24 AM.
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Old May 16, 2011, 11:53 AM   #28
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Have you seen any accuracy differences between loads that were weighed and loads that were measured with the Lee Dipper?
Couldn't say, because I don't load the same calibers with the dipper loads as I do the scale. I'm going to guess that there wouldn't be much difference in accuracy.

I like the dippers, don't get me wrong, I just don't use them all the time.
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Old May 16, 2011, 12:52 PM   #29
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Couldn't say, because I don't load the same calibers with the dipper loads as I do the scale. I'm going to guess that there wouldn't be much difference in accuracy.
Quote:
For me the difference is not enough to notice but I'm not shooting 1,000 yards or off a bench rest.
I'm always trying to find someone who has tested accuracy with weighed charges versus volumetric charges. I've never noticed any difference between weighed charges and those from a powder thrower* myself, but my gut tells me that accurate volumetric should produce more accurate ammo.


*using a consistant powder thrower which works well with the powder being used.
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Old May 16, 2011, 12:56 PM   #30
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Richard Lee in his loading book cites that a world record holder used Lee Dippers to "weigh" his charges. It is VERY consistent. Just not fast for high volume loading.

I do believe their charts assume heaping dippers full, and not level dippers full. That can be misleading, so it is good to weigh the charge to start.

One thing to remember is that dippers are more reliable than powder measures. They don't clog, they don't sever extruded powder grains, they're almost impossible to break.

So I think their strengths are:
  • Portability
  • Reliability
  • Low price
  • Easy to make

weaknesses are:
  • slower than powder measures
  • hard to get in between loads in the range of small handgun cartridges. For instance, what do I do if 0.3 cc is too little and 0.5cc is too much? I could make a 0.4cc. There should be no such problems with rifle load levels, as one can mix and match to get the right capacity. For instance, one dip of a 0.3cc and one dip of a 3cc. Need more? 3cc + 0.5cc.

People who have never tried them are always putting them down.
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Old May 16, 2011, 01:10 PM   #31
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"weaknesses are:
slower than powder measures"

Depends on how often you check your powder charge weights. The more you check with the scale the slower you go. As a practical matter, you don't use a scale with the dippers so I think the dipper speed is underestimated. I find it to be quite fast with practice.
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Old May 16, 2011, 03:20 PM   #32
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I do believe their charts assume heaping dippers full, and not level dippers full. That can be misleading, so it is good to weigh the charge to start.
The way they are used is to dip them in a cup of powder, then strike them off level with a credit card.
The powder charts are very conservative because they represent the densest samples of each type of powder found. Lee encourages people to write to them to update the data if they find a lot# of powder that is denser than found in the charts.


Quote:
Just not fast for high volume loading.
They aren't exactly slow either. Using most powder chargers requires a practiced level of smoothness and care- running them fast will make them erratic.
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Old May 16, 2011, 04:49 PM   #33
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"I'm always trying to find someone who has tested accuracy with weighed charges versus volumetric charges."

Hatcher recounts in his Handbook the results of a National Matches in the 1930s.

Apparently one shooter broke open a bunch of issued ammo and found that there was a pretty significant variation in charge weight with the MR or IMR powder (extruded stick) then in use. The rounds were loaded on new machinery using volumetric loading.

The guy really raised a stink about this, assuming that because of the variation in powder weights accuracy would go down, but IIRC there were more high power match records broken that year than any other year before, and most shooters reported greater accuracy overall.

With IMR powders, at least volumetric measuring has been shown to give rounds that the same overall accuracy potential as rounds in which each charge has been hand weighed.
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Old May 16, 2011, 11:16 PM   #34
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Hatcher recounts in his Handbook the results of a National Matches in the 1930s.

Apparently one shooter broke open a bunch of issued ammo and found that there was a pretty significant variation in charge weight with the MR or IMR powder (extruded stick) then in use. The rounds were loaded on new machinery using volumetric loading.

The guy really raised a stink about this, assuming that because of the variation in powder weights accuracy would go down, but IIRC there were more high power match records broken that year than any other year before, and most shooters reported greater accuracy overall.

With IMR powders, at least volumetric measuring has been shown to give rounds that the same overall accuracy potential as rounds in which each charge has been hand weighed.
Excellent!
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:13 PM   #35
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I don't use them but I think I would have a problem with the dippers where I live in Arizona with low humidity below 8%. Whenever I use the one dipper that I have to trickle on the scale when a powder drop is low I have a problem with static electricity and the powder clinging to the plastic dipper.

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Old May 18, 2011, 08:12 PM   #36
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I use them here in colorado with low humidty and its not a problem, if its grabbing onto the dipper or funnel I just tap the dipper couple times and its not sticking to anything any more. With something like 800x with the big flakes, there's more of a problem with the flakes jamming up the funnel hole than anything else.
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