45 Colt in a Carbine?

JJ45 · November 13, 2020, 09:04 AM

Anyone have one and what are it's pros and cons? I load for a Blackhawk and have some dies, brass and components. I only have some lead Montana Bullets SWC at about 270 grains and I don't think I'd want to load these in a carbine for fear of leading.

I've been looking at the Rossi 92 and Winchester Trappers all around 16" barrels. Any comparisons would be helpful...Thanks

zxcvbob · November 13, 2020, 10:04 AM

How many are you going to shoot at a time that leading would be a problem? .45-70 traditionally uses lead bullets, and you won't be driving them as fast (but maybe close if you're using Blackhawk loads)

I've never noticed any leading in my Marlin shooting lead .38 Special +Ps. (it's one without microgroove rifling) That should be a decent analogy, but I don't know.

Worst case, you look for some jacketed 240-300 grain .45 bullets when the current drought is over.

COSteve · November 13, 2020, 10:22 AM

I shoot .45 Colt in 2 Ubertis, a 19" '66 Yellowboy carbine and a 24" '73 Special Sporting rifle. I shoot 2 weights of plated bullets; a 255grn FP by X-Treme and a 200grn HP by Berry's. Plated bullets avoid the whole leading issue entirely and as long as you taper crimp them and don't over do it, they work great at even high velocities.

(I've shot 10s of thousands of plated bullets with great results. I also shoot Berry's 110grn plated .308 bullets in my M1 Carbine at 1,950fps as well as X-Treme 150grn plated .308 bullets in my 30-30 at over 2,000fps with great results so this whole internet hype of plating falling off at high velocities is mostly BS or the result of over crimping and cutting through the plating thus damaging the bullet.)

As my .45 Colt leverguns have the toggle link actions, I keep the pressures down to standard 14,000psi so I find that Unique works well with slightly under their stated max charges using standard LP primers for best accuracy. The 255grn out of my 24" rifle clock at a respectable 1,207fps.

As I shoot all of my long guns at the range at 200yds and 300yds, I find that these loads work well with acceptable accuracy for shooting steel plates, clay pigeons, etc. If I had a Rossi in .45 Colt I wouldn't hesitate to shoot them at Ruger Only level loads.

BTW, I also have 2 Rossis in .357mag; a 20" carbine and 24" rifle where I shoot both 158grn and 125grn plated bullets. I load them up with full charges of Lil'Gun with the 158grn with spectacular results with velocities out of the rifle at 2,005fps!! The 125grn are my plinking loads.

JJ45 · November 13, 2020, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxcvbob

How many are you going to shoot at a time that leading would be a problem? .45-70 traditionally uses lead bullets, and you won't be driving them as fast (but maybe close if you're using Blackhawk loads)

I've never noticed any leading in my Marlin shooting lead .38 Special +Ps. (it's one without microgroove rifling) That should be a decent analogy, but I don't know.

Worst case, you look for some jacketed 240-300 grain .45 bullets when the current drought is over.

I might try them then. I have some Unique and I'll charge lighter than what I load for the Blackhawk....if I can get around 1,100 fps with a 270 grain Ill be happy. On second thought a little under 1000 fps is probably more realistic.

JJ45 · November 13, 2020, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COSteve

I shoot .45 Colt in 2 Ubertis, a 19" '66 Yellowboy carbine and a 24" '73 Special Sporting rifle. I shoot 2 weights of plated bullets; a 255grn FP by X-Treme and a 200grn HP by Berry's. Plated bullets avoid the whole leading issue entirely and as long as you taper crimp them and don't over do it, they work great at even high velocities.

(I've shot 10s of thousands of plated bullets with great results. I also shoot Berry's 110grn plated .308 bullets in my M1 Carbine at 1,950fps as well as X-Treme 150grn plated .308 bullets in my 30-30 at over 2,000fps with great results so this whole internet hype of plating falling off at high velocities is mostly BS or the result of over crimping and cutting through the plating thus damaging the bullet.)

As my .45 Colt leverguns have the toggle link actions, I keep the pressures down to standard 14,000psi so I find that Unique works well with slightly under their stated max charges using standard LP primers for best accuracy. The 255grn out of my 24" rifle clock at a respectable 1,207fps.

As I shoot all of my long guns at the range at 200yds and 300yds, I find that these loads work well with acceptable accuracy for shooting steel plates, clay pigeons, etc. If I had a Rossi in .45 Colt I wouldn't hesitate to shoot them at Ruger Only level loads.

BTW, I also have 2 Rossis in .357mag; a 20" carbine and 24" rifle where I shoot both 158grn and 125grn plated bullets. I load them up with full charges of Lil'Gun with the 158grn with spectacular results with velocities out of the rifle at 2,005fps!! The 125grn are my plinking loads.

Wow, those .357s should be good deer medicine if they are constructed tough enough to stay together. Im only looking for a 100 yard max load out of a .45 Colt Lever gun....I figure bullet weight and diameter will be in my favor on deer size game.

HiBC · November 13, 2020, 10:39 AM

I have no leading issues with 44 Magnum cast with wheel weights from my Win 92 clone. Shoot groove dia plus .001. Don't shoot undersize bullets.
The only leading problem I ever had was with lead factory loads.

I have not tried them,but the Powder Coated Boolit folks have advanced a home technology ( Harbor freight,airsoft pellets,Kool-Whip tub and a toaster oven) that ,from what I have read, is another path to shoot home cast bullets in rifles with no leading problems.

T. O'Heir · November 13, 2020, 01:17 PM

"...in a carbine for fear of leading..." Carbine or rifle makes no difference. Leading is caused by trying to drive a cast bullet too fast not the barrel length.
A 16" barrel won't give you excessively high velocities. The sort of issue is finding proper data for the 270 grain bullet. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is suggested for proper load data. Not at home to look in my books.
"...M1 Carbine at 1,950fps..." Geez. That's at least as fast as the jacketed Speer 110 HP and FMJ's I use with IMR4227. Current Max load is 14.5 at 2003 FPS out of a 20" barrel though.

Hammerhead · November 13, 2020, 01:24 PM

Feeding SWCs might be an issue.

TX Nimrod · November 13, 2020, 03:45 PM

Actually, leading is caused by hot powder gas getting around the bullet, melting off parts of the bullet - so says the Cast Bullet Association. Recover some bullets which lead the barrel sometime, you’ll see evidence of melted alloy. The major cause of leading for most is poor bullet fit, allowing the gas by the bullet. “Too fast” means the alloy is too soft, allowing the bullet to slip in the rifling - opening a gap for gas to pass through.

I’ve driven 340-grain RNFP LEE cast bullets to 1464 fps, 300-grain LBT cast bullets to 1586 fps and 255-grain FPRN LEE cast bullets to 1620 fps in my Winchester M1894 Trapper. I experienced no leading with coww alloy sized to fit the bore. The OP should try the 270s, +/- 8.0 grains should get him close to his goal.

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Scorch · November 13, 2020, 03:51 PM

Feeding those 270 grainers in a 92 might be an issue. 92 pattern lever guns are designed for more tapered bullets (RN, SWC, etc). Large meplat or longer nose bullets might prove challenging to get to feed through the action. 66s and 73s lift the bullet in a horizontal position, so flat-nosed or large meplat rounds would feed in straight. 92s feed at an angle, the cartridge has to go around a corner as it feeds. Many lever guns nowadays are made for straight-walled cartridges, but the originals were made for tapered cartridges so they would feed reliably.

JJ45 · November 13, 2020, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorch

Feeding those 270 grainers in a 92 might be an issue. 92 pattern lever guns are designed for more tapered bullets (RN, SWC, etc). Large meplat or longer nose bullets might prove challenging to get to feed through the action. 66s and 73s lift the bullet in a horizontal position, so flat-nosed or large meplat rounds would feed in straight. 92s feed at an angle, the cartridge has to go around a corner as it feeds. Many lever guns nowadays are made for straight-walled cartridges, but the originals were made for tapered cartridges so they would feed reliably.

Good knowledge. Didn't know that. What about 94's, similar to which?

Scorch · November 14, 2020, 01:22 AM

Quote:

What about 94's, similar to which?

Which 94? Winchester or Marlin? Winchester 94 was designed for rifle cartridges, the attempts to use it for 44 magnum had mixed success. It's a long-throw action, using it for short cartridges makes a less handy package. The Marlin 94 is similar to the Winchester 92 in that it was designed for short cartridges typically used in handguns. It will have similar issues to the 92 clones in feeding, plus a few of its own issues mixed in.

The Happy kaboomer · November 14, 2020, 09:55 PM

I shoot my 45 handgun load of 8.5 grs of Unique pushing my 250 gr cast SWC in a Win 94 Trapper and a 24' bbl Navy Arms 92. The load averages 1315 fps out of the 24" 92(Oehler 35P crono). And 907 FPS out of my 4" Smith. With no leading. Bullets are WW's with a little lynotype added.

The Happy kaboomer · November 14, 2020, 09:58 PM

Scorch. Have you ever owned either gun in 44 mag or 45LC. I have both and neither has ever had a problem in over 20 years of shooting. Even with SWC bullets.

Scorch · November 15, 2020, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Scorch. Have you ever owned either gun in 44 mag or 45LC.

No, but I have worked on a number of them fixing feeding issues. It's what I do for a living.

COSteve · November 15, 2020, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ45

Wow, those .357s should be good deer medicine if they are constructed tough enough to stay together. Im only looking for a 100 yard max load out of a .45 Colt Lever gun....I figure bullet weight and diameter will be in my favor on deer size game.

Remember, that the 2,005fps is with a 158grn plated bullet and it's out of a 24" rifle. The same load produces 1,952fps out of my 20" carbine. Using a 158grn Zero JSP the velocities were 1,987fps for the rifle and 1,925fps for the carbine. A 180grn bullet would produce somewhat lower velocities but I haven't chrono'd them yet. And these tests were at my range at 6,100ft asl on an 84° sunny day.

smee78 · November 15, 2020, 04:25 PM

I had an older Interarms Rossi in 45C and it shot fine for years, now I run a Marlin 1894 in 45Colt and love it. No leading in either gun, only problem would be finding parts for the older Rossi if needed. So now with Ruger owning Marlin, I cant wait to see what comes out in the future??

GeauxTide · November 16, 2020, 11:28 PM

I bought one in 45Colt a few weeks ago. Seven shot, tube or side loading, 16.5" barrel. Gonna be great.

bobn · November 17, 2020, 08:59 AM

had a marlin competition cowboy in 45. chamber was so loose brass failed to seal and blackened upon firing. i wonder if it was to aid in feeding.
,,,,, 44 40 is the correct answer in a rifle. along with 32 20 218. etc. i am gonna give 38/357 in a 92 a whirl. bobn

rc · November 17, 2020, 12:03 PM

My Rossi 44 has a short LOP. I've heard he 45 colt has a rather small rim for a lever gun. My 44 mag works well but I like my Marlin 1894 in 357 better overall.

November 13, 2020, 09:04 AM	#1
JJ45 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2015 Posts: 908	45 Colt in a Carbine? Anyone have one and what are it's pros and cons? I load for a Blackhawk and have some dies, brass and components. I only have some lead Montana Bullets SWC at about 270 grains and I don't think I'd want to load these in a carbine for fear of leading. I've been looking at the Rossi 92 and Winchester Trappers all around 16" barrels. Any comparisons would be helpful...Thanks

November 13, 2020, 10:04 AM	#2
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	How many are you going to shoot at a time that leading would be a problem? .45-70 traditionally uses lead bullets, and you won't be driving them as fast (but maybe close if you're using Blackhawk loads) I've never noticed any leading in my Marlin shooting lead .38 Special +Ps. (it's one without microgroove rifling) That should be a decent analogy, but I don't know. Worst case, you look for some jacketed 240-300 grain .45 bullets when the current drought is over. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

November 13, 2020, 01:17 PM	#7
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...in a carbine for fear of leading..." Carbine or rifle makes no difference. Leading is caused by trying to drive a cast bullet too fast not the barrel length. A 16" barrel won't give you excessively high velocities. The sort of issue is finding proper data for the 270 grain bullet. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is suggested for proper load data. Not at home to look in my books. "...M1 Carbine at 1,950fps..." Geez. That's at least as fast as the jacketed Speer 110 HP and FMJ's I use with IMR4227. Current Max load is 14.5 at 2003 FPS out of a 20" barrel though. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 13, 2020, 03:45 PM	#9
TX Nimrod Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2009 Location: Zona Posts: 423	Actually, leading is caused by hot powder gas getting around the bullet, melting off parts of the bullet - so says the Cast Bullet Association. Recover some bullets which lead the barrel sometime, you’ll see evidence of melted alloy. The major cause of leading for most is poor bullet fit, allowing the gas by the bullet. “Too fast” means the alloy is too soft, allowing the bullet to slip in the rifling - opening a gap for gas to pass through. I’ve driven 340-grain RNFP LEE cast bullets to 1464 fps, 300-grain LBT cast bullets to 1586 fps and 255-grain FPRN LEE cast bullets to 1620 fps in my Winchester M1894 Trapper. I experienced no leading with coww alloy sized to fit the bore. The OP should try the 270s, +/- 8.0 grains should get him close to his goal. . . __________________ .22LR - .223 - .22-250 - .243 - 6mm REM - .25-20 - .25-35 - .25 BB - .250/3000 - .257 WBY - .260 - .30 M1 - .300 BO - .30 Herrett - .300 Savage - .32 H&R - .303 - .338-06 - .338 WM - .35 REM - .38-55 - .45 LC - .45-70 - .50-70 Last edited by TX Nimrod; November 13, 2020 at 04:33 PM.

November 13, 2020, 03:51 PM	#10
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Feeding those 270 grainers in a 92 might be an issue. 92 pattern lever guns are designed for more tapered bullets (RN, SWC, etc). Large meplat or longer nose bullets might prove challenging to get to feed through the action. 66s and 73s lift the bullet in a horizontal position, so flat-nosed or large meplat rounds would feed in straight. 92s feed at an angle, the cartridge has to go around a corner as it feeds. Many lever guns nowadays are made for straight-walled cartridges, but the originals were made for tapered cartridges so they would feed reliably. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

November 13, 2020, 10:22 AM	#3
COSteve Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 1,344	I shoot .45 Colt in 2 Ubertis, a 19" '66 Yellowboy carbine and a 24" '73 Special Sporting rifle. I shoot 2 weights of plated bullets; a 255grn FP by X-Treme and a 200grn HP by Berry's. Plated bullets avoid the whole leading issue entirely and as long as you taper crimp them and don't over do it, they work great at even high velocities. (I've shot 10s of thousands of plated bullets with great results. I also shoot Berry's 110grn plated .308 bullets in my M1 Carbine at 1,950fps as well as X-Treme 150grn plated .308 bullets in my 30-30 at over 2,000fps with great results so this whole internet hype of plating falling off at high velocities is mostly BS or the result of over crimping and cutting through the plating thus damaging the bullet.) As my .45 Colt leverguns have the toggle link actions, I keep the pressures down to standard 14,000psi so I find that Unique works well with slightly under their stated max charges using standard LP primers for best accuracy. The 255grn out of my 24" rifle clock at a respectable 1,207fps. As I shoot all of my long guns at the range at 200yds and 300yds, I find that these loads work well with acceptable accuracy for shooting steel plates, clay pigeons, etc. If I had a Rossi in .45 Colt I wouldn't hesitate to shoot them at Ruger Only level loads. BTW, I also have 2 Rossis in .357mag; a 20" carbine and 24" rifle where I shoot both 158grn and 125grn plated bullets. I load them up with full charges of Lil'Gun with the 158grn with spectacular results with velocities out of the rifle at 2,005fps!! The 125grn are my plinking loads.

November 13, 2020, 10:39 AM	#6
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	I have no leading issues with 44 Magnum cast with wheel weights from my Win 92 clone. Shoot groove dia plus .001. Don't shoot undersize bullets. The only leading problem I ever had was with lead factory loads. I have not tried them,but the Powder Coated Boolit folks have advanced a home technology ( Harbor freight,airsoft pellets,Kool-Whip tub and a toaster oven) that ,from what I have read, is another path to shoot home cast bullets in rifles with no leading problems.

November 13, 2020, 01:24 PM	#8
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	Feeding SWCs might be an issue.

November 14, 2020, 09:55 PM	#13
The Happy kaboomer Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Posts: 226	I shoot my 45 handgun load of 8.5 grs of Unique pushing my 250 gr cast SWC in a Win 94 Trapper and a 24' bbl Navy Arms 92. The load averages 1315 fps out of the 24" 92(Oehler 35P crono). And 907 FPS out of my 4" Smith. With no leading. Bullets are WW's with a little lynotype added.

November 14, 2020, 09:58 PM	#14
The Happy kaboomer Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Posts: 226	Scorch. Have you ever owned either gun in 44 mag or 45LC. I have both and neither has ever had a problem in over 20 years of shooting. Even with SWC bullets.

November 15, 2020, 04:25 PM	#17
smee78 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,918	I had an older Interarms Rossi in 45C and it shot fine for years, now I run a Marlin 1894 in 45Colt and love it. No leading in either gun, only problem would be finding parts for the older Rossi if needed. So now with Ruger owning Marlin, I cant wait to see what comes out in the future?? __________________ We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are

November 16, 2020, 11:28 PM	#18
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	Henry X I bought one in 45Colt a few weeks ago. Seven shot, tube or side loading, 16.5" barrel. Gonna be great. __________________ Reloading For: 223R, 243W, 6.5 GR, 6.5 CM, 260R, 6.5-06, 280R, 7mmRM, 300HAM'R, 308W, 30-06, 338-06, 9mm, 357M, 41M, 44SPL, 44M, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 450BM.

November 17, 2020, 08:59 AM	#19
bobn Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2006 Location: midwest Posts: 1,105	had a marlin competition cowboy in 45. chamber was so loose brass failed to seal and blackened upon firing. i wonder if it was to aid in feeding. ,,,,, 44 40 is the correct answer in a rifle. along with 32 20 218. etc. i am gonna give 38/357 in a 92 a whirl. bobn

November 17, 2020, 12:03 PM	#20
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,767	My Rossi 44 has a short LOP. I've heard he 45 colt has a rather small rim for a lever gun. My 44 mag works well but I like my Marlin 1894 in 357 better overall.