Colt SAA or USFA ? - Page 2

rclark · November 10, 2020, 09:23 PM

You are right I think. I just reread John Taffin's article (Taffin's Book of the .45 Caliber) on the USFA and no mention of interchangeability. He just mentioned they were made here in the USA with Italian parts. I also found on GunBlast (New Vaquero article) a table confirming the slightly larger cylinder and frame window. Stand corrected. Taffin did mention that the ones he got were 'done right' . He said quote "I can't remember ever experiencing a traditional single action where everything was right in a single package."

claydoctor · November 10, 2020, 11:05 PM

Taffin's remarks on the USFA I believe were written long ago and recently reprinted in his latest book. The early guns were assembled here from Italian parts. Those guns were marked US Patent Arms. Later guns guns were all US made and are marked USFA. Turnbull put out two different series of guns that were made by USFA. The first was the Cowboy Classic of which I have two and the Open Range came later.

Straitshot · November 13, 2020, 03:40 PM

claydoctor, Please understand I am not attempting to be a smart aleck or argumentative and I am certainly no expert, but I do know that even after USFA stopped being called USPtFA(United States Patented Fire Arms )and became simply USFA they still produced single action revolvers using Italian parts and/or a combination of both Italian and USA parts up through serial numbers in the 2100 range. I think even possibly up into early 2200 numbers. I would have to do some research to know for certain.

The A and B prefixed Rodeo models are all Itallian parts revolvers and they are roll marked USFA on the barrels. Also premium models with serial numbers from 2000 through the 2100 's are either all Italian parts and/or a combination of Italian and USA parts and they too are roll marked USFA on the barrels.

There are tell tale signs to look for to make certain revolvers are all USA parts revolvers when their serial numbers are close to the time USFA made the total change from Italian parts to all USA parts revolvers.

This link might help clarify:

http://pistolsmith.blogspot.com/2015...parts-gun.html

claydoctor · November 13, 2020, 05:20 PM

Straightshot, I defer to your research, which appears more extensive than my own.

Dave T · November 14, 2020, 01:26 PM

I have been told the change over to USA sourced parts was in the mid-23,000 serial range. I have an all US 23,000 range gun and a 24,000 range one to compare it to for verification. No Uberti parts are to be found.

I've also been told there is no actual cut off number in the 23,000s after which you can be assured your gun is all US made. They used up what they had left from the Uberti parts days so some guns will be a mix. By 24,000 supposedly no more Uberti parts were in use.

Some of this is from a former USFA employee, some is second hand but from USFA collectors and fans. Believe at your own risk, it's the best info I have. (smile)

Dave

**Aguila Blanca** · November 14, 2020, 01:43 PM

Quote:

I have been told the change over to USA sourced parts was in the mid-23,000 serial range. I have an all US 23,000 range gun and a 24,000 range one to compare it to for verification. No Uberti parts are to be found.

How would you know if a part was made in the US or by Uberti? I own a Piette and an Uberti, and I have bought parts for Uberti's from VTI to repair Colts. None of the parts I've seen are marked in any way to identify who made them or where they were made.

Dave T · November 16, 2020, 10:43 AM

There are distinct characteristics of the all USA guns from USFA. Once you learn to identify them it's relatively easy to spot a USA sourced gun from an Italian one.

Major things to look for are vertical rear edge of front sight (Uberti slopes forward from bottom to top), shorter and rounded flutes in the cylinder (Uberti cylinder flutes are longer and more pointed), and a more pronounced curve to the hammer with hand cut (sharp) checkering. You can spot these in photographs. There are other differences that are less pronounced.

Took me a fair amount of research to learn this stuff but the info is out there. I got burned on the first USFA I bought. It was marked USPFA, another give-away it's a Uberti, which I didn't know until after I paid too much for it.

Dave

Classic12 · November 17, 2020, 03:13 AM

A big thank you to everyone who contributed with opinions and infos.

I decided not to buy either.

What attracted me in the first place was a reasonable price for either, most other non Italian SAA for sale around here (Switzerland) start at $ 2000 and up, up to $ 4500 for some.

But if I get a SAA I think it should be colour cased, and that excludes the USFA Cowboy. And I’ve read too many negatives abt a Colt made in 1986 during the strike. And I’d probably prefer a .45 LC.

My time with a nice SAA will surely come, I am a patient guy and some of my guns took me over a decade to find.

And in the meantime, I missed a very nice 1917 Luger for $ 1400 (sold hours after it was advertised), but bought a nice Remington Rand 1911 A1 and a SA M1A

shurshot · November 17, 2020, 04:20 PM

THAT... is one sweet Luger. Wow!!!! Looks like new for a 100 year old gun. That would be fun to keep squirrels out of the bird feeder with!

November 10, 2020, 09:23 PM	#26
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,348	You are right I think. I just reread John Taffin's article (Taffin's Book of the .45 Caliber) on the USFA and no mention of interchangeability. He just mentioned they were made here in the USA with Italian parts. I also found on GunBlast (New Vaquero article) a table confirming the slightly larger cylinder and frame window. Stand corrected. Taffin did mention that the ones he got were 'done right' . He said quote "I can't remember ever experiencing a traditional single action where everything was right in a single package." __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

November 13, 2020, 03:40 PM	#28
Straitshot Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2011 Location: West Texas Posts: 151	claydoctor, Please understand I am not attempting to be a smart aleck or argumentative and I am certainly no expert, but I do know that even after USFA stopped being called USPtFA(United States Patented Fire Arms )and became simply USFA they still produced single action revolvers using Italian parts and/or a combination of both Italian and USA parts up through serial numbers in the 2100 range. I think even possibly up into early 2200 numbers. I would have to do some research to know for certain. The A and B prefixed Rodeo models are all Itallian parts revolvers and they are roll marked USFA on the barrels. Also premium models with serial numbers from 2000 through the 2100 's are either all Italian parts and/or a combination of Italian and USA parts and they too are roll marked USFA on the barrels. There are tell tale signs to look for to make certain revolvers are all USA parts revolvers when their serial numbers are close to the time USFA made the total change from Italian parts to all USA parts revolvers. This link might help clarify: http://pistolsmith.blogspot.com/2015...parts-gun.html Last edited by Straitshot; November 13, 2020 at 03:53 PM.

November 14, 2020, 01:26 PM	#30
Dave T Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2000 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 1,434	I have been told the change over to USA sourced parts was in the mid-23,000 serial range. I have an all US 23,000 range gun and a 24,000 range one to compare it to for verification. No Uberti parts are to be found. I've also been told there is no actual cut off number in the 23,000s after which you can be assured your gun is all US made. They used up what they had left from the Uberti parts days so some guns will be a mix. By 24,000 supposedly no more Uberti parts were in use. Some of this is from a former USFA employee, some is second hand but from USFA collectors and fans. Believe at your own risk, it's the best info I have. (smile) Dave __________________ RSVN '69-'71 PCSD Ret

November 16, 2020, 10:43 AM	#32
Dave T Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2000 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 1,434	There are distinct characteristics of the all USA guns from USFA. Once you learn to identify them it's relatively easy to spot a USA sourced gun from an Italian one. Major things to look for are vertical rear edge of front sight (Uberti slopes forward from bottom to top), shorter and rounded flutes in the cylinder (Uberti cylinder flutes are longer and more pointed), and a more pronounced curve to the hammer with hand cut (sharp) checkering. You can spot these in photographs. There are other differences that are less pronounced. Took me a fair amount of research to learn this stuff but the info is out there. I got burned on the first USFA I bought. It was marked USPFA, another give-away it's a Uberti, which I didn't know until after I paid too much for it. Dave __________________ RSVN '69-'71 PCSD Ret

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November 10, 2020, 11:05 PM	#27
claydoctor Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 403	Taffin's remarks on the USFA I believe were written long ago and recently reprinted in his latest book. The early guns were assembled here from Italian parts. Those guns were marked US Patent Arms. Later guns guns were all US made and are marked USFA. Turnbull put out two different series of guns that were made by USFA. The first was the Cowboy Classic of which I have two and the Open Range came later.

November 13, 2020, 05:20 PM	#29
claydoctor Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 403	Straightshot, I defer to your research, which appears more extensive than my own.

November 17, 2020, 03:13 AM	#33
Classic12 Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2020 Posts: 239	A big thank you to everyone who contributed with opinions and infos. I decided not to buy either. What attracted me in the first place was a reasonable price for either, most other non Italian SAA for sale around here (Switzerland) start at $ 2000 and up, up to $ 4500 for some. But if I get a SAA I think it should be colour cased, and that excludes the USFA Cowboy. And I’ve read too many negatives abt a Colt made in 1986 during the strike. And I’d probably prefer a .45 LC. My time with a nice SAA will surely come, I am a patient guy and some of my guns took me over a decade to find. And in the meantime, I missed a very nice 1917 Luger for $ 1400 (sold hours after it was advertised), but bought a nice Remington Rand 1911 A1 and a SA M1A

November 17, 2020, 04:20 PM	#34
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,611	THAT... is one sweet Luger. Wow!!!! Looks like new for a 100 year old gun. That would be fun to keep squirrels out of the bird feeder with!