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Old October 21, 2020, 10:02 PM   #1
Andy1
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Super Blackhawk standard vs bisley grip

I'm looking at buying a SBH 454 Casull which comes with a Bisley grip.
What's the point or different character of this grip style?
I already have a SBH standard 44 magnum and I know how the recoil rolls through the grip.
Does the Bisley grip allow recoil to roll through your hand differently?
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Old October 21, 2020, 10:06 PM   #2
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Yes it does. It really helps with recoil in my experience. My 454 Super Blackhawk bisley has waaaay less felt recoil than my compensated raging bull.


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Old October 21, 2020, 11:17 PM   #3
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I agree with Radny97, the Bisley grip is much more comfortable. I can get all three fingers on it, and much prefer the Bisley grip overall to the standard Ruger grip that so many Ruger fans enjoy. And yes, the Bisley grip does allow recoil to roll through one's hand differently. I've shot my share of .44 Magnum, and once got to shoot a friend's old 3-screw .44M Blackhawk with the standard grip. Thoroughly unenjoyable to me. I also prefer the longer SBH Dragoon type square back trigger guard over the standard Ruger, or Colt SAA grip for recoil control.

My Freedom Arms .454 has a longer grip frame, that does not appear much like the Bisley, but in actual use feels to me much like the Ruger Bisley type grip. Were I in the market for a .454 Ruger, I would not consider one with other than the Bisley grip.......ymmv
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Old October 22, 2020, 08:30 AM   #4
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Bisley grip
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Old October 22, 2020, 10:24 AM   #5
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The SBH comes in variations of all three grip frames. Original dragoon, plow handle and Bisely. One is no better than the other. The one most comfortable to you is all that matters.
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Old October 22, 2020, 10:29 AM   #6
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A number of years ago I had a Ruger Bisley in .45 Colt. I was shooting some heavy loads, based on a 350 gr.cast bullet. The trigger guard whacked my middle finger unmercifully. Also has set up a 4 5/8" Blackhawk as a Bisley. After a few rounds I switched to the Dragoon style grip of the Super Blackhawk.



And, a former Bisley:





This just my experience, many love the Bisley. Keep it between your hand and Ruger.


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Old October 22, 2020, 06:33 PM   #7
Andy1
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I don't know what the dragoon grip style is, but I found this Bisley-Dragoon Grip when I tried to look it up. I do like the square style trigger guard over the round style. This looks like a good mix.
I'm still new at this, so I don't know why the images aren't showing and only the links.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ff bis-d nm.jpg (129.5 KB, 61 views)
File Type: png Screenshot_20201022-180127.png (619.0 KB, 52 views)

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Old October 23, 2020, 01:07 AM   #8
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Apparently those of us that like a bisley grip are in the minority although one would not think so considering the previous responses in this thread. They tend to be sorta hard to find in the gun shops.
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Old October 23, 2020, 04:43 AM   #9
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IMO, in single actions, recoil is absorbed in 2 ways.

First, the direct push. Second, the roll against the revolvers weight.

In light kicking guns, only the roll is a great way to absorb recoil. With my hot 45 Colt’s, I prefer the Bisley because it has more push. With excess roll, the hammer/frame will bite the top of your hand. This is why you see soooo many rubber grips on the big kicking classic grip single actions.
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Old October 23, 2020, 11:27 AM   #10
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Andy1

The Dragoon grip is that that is on the Ruger Super Blackhawk and gets its name from the old Colt Dragoon revolvers of the 1848 period. It is longer than the "plow handle" grip of the Single Action, the Navy grip profile, and had the squared trigger guard.

The grip you show is an aftermarket grip and is the Bisley style with a squared back trigger guard.

Here on two Super Blackjhawks, one of brass:



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Old October 23, 2020, 12:17 PM   #11
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The Bisley grip looks like the less-pretty sister, but I find it fits my hand and is much more comfortable to shoot.
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Old October 23, 2020, 12:48 PM   #12
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I am a Ruger Bisley grip fan. I really prefer them. I respect those who don’t, it’s a personal preference.

I used to have a lovely .45 LC stainless Hunter Blackhawk with Bisley grip. I used to load that thing with “Ruger Only” loads which for all intents and purposes is indistinguishable from .44 Magnum. I sold it as my father gave me his Bowen Bisley Blackhawk in .44 Magnum. I recently acquired a Bisley Single Six in .32 H&R- sometimes they come out of the factory “just right” and this one is a real gem.

As for .454 Casull... I approve! My experience is with a Freedom Arms Premier grade 7 1/2 inch barrel. For the hand cannon, go with the 7 1/2 inch barrel to tame the impressive recoil. And a shooting glove. The FA grip is something between the Ruger “plow handle” and Bisley- the pistol rolls in your hand a bit- a good thing to absorb recoil. Too much roll and you must reposition before the follow up shot. After enjoying considerably the hammer of the gods, by the next summer I was shooting stout Ruger Only .45 LC loads from the Casull... and decided that Autumn that for white tail deer there was no point in hitting them with elk, bear or Cape buffalo level loads or getting by beautiful, huge and heavy FA wet in rain or snow or scratched up in the thickets. Eventually, I even toned down my .45 LC loads and as we were shooting deer on ag permits for population reduction, many a deer went down just as fast with a good sturdy .45LC load as the far more powerful.

Oh, I shoot with one hand- even full House Casull loads. This might make a difference. The pistol rolls, my arm rotates up from my shoulder, my body rocks back from the shove. Weight of the pistol is bad for carrying all day in the field, good for Felt recoil reduction. Pistol weight, rotation, arm and body motion all slow down the time that the recoil is transferred to you- the momentum is one thing, the IMPULSE is another.

My hips are placed so that my arm naturally rotates back on to target. For me, the rounder grip sometimes rotated in my hand a bit too much, while the Bisley grip doesn’t. That amount is the result of grip shape, load, hand, shooting style and preference.

As for .454 Casull Blackhawk- it’s fun to know you could one day hunt Alaska or Africa with it. It’s fun to see what the “hand cannon” thing is all about. It’s practical because you already have the dies, brass, components and data to load as far down in power as you please. There is nothing wrong with shooting cowboy
level amounts of W231 under a soft .45 bullet out of a Casull. I would not call cowboy .45 LC a “mild” load but “everything from mild to wild” has a nice ring to it. You’ll have that capability.

Go for it.
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Old October 23, 2020, 01:03 PM   #13
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The Ruger Bisley grip is a copy of the Colt Bisley grip that was intended for target shooting. It may or may not fit your hand with like Bob Wright says, "whacked my middle finger unmercifully." the result.
"...the "plow handle" grip..." Was intended for use on horse back.
A 240 grain .44 at 1450 FPS out of a 3 pound revolver has about 22.6 ft-lbs of recoil energy. Closest .454 is a 3.2 pound revolver with a 260 grain bullet at 1800 FPS has 39.0 ft-lbs of recoil energy.
A standard 6" .44 mag SBH weighs 3 pounds. A 6.5" .454 weighs 2.5 ounces more. I kind of suspect you wouldn't be able to notice the difference. Felt recoil is mostly about the load used, but the revolver has to fit your hand too.
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Old October 23, 2020, 02:03 PM   #14
Bob Wright
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T O'Heir said, in part:

Quote:
The Ruger Bisley grip is a copy of the Colt Bisley grip that was intended........
Not truly an exact copy of the Colt Bisley. The Colt Bisley is scooped up higher behind the trigger guard and the front strap hooks foreword more. Ruger's Bisley grip is more closely akin to Elmer Keith's Number 5 grip profile.

I have never fired a heavy load in a Colt Bisley. Nor do I intend to.

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Old October 23, 2020, 02:18 PM   #15
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Bisley grips are for people that want to shoot their SA revolver like a DA or a pistol, or like having their revolver naturally point at their feet.

"Plow" grips are for people that know how to let it roll.



.



(Recoil should not be a factor. If you're getting bitten, you're doing it wrong.)
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Old October 23, 2020, 03:32 PM   #16
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At the end of the day it comes down to personal preference.

I have an older friend who is an experienced handgun hunter; he owns different types of SA revolvers but prefers Ruger Bisleys for heavy hunting loads.

I grew up shooting DA revolvers. When I started shooting SA revolvers several years ago a plowhandle grip frame felt very strange. Later still I acquired a Ruger Bisley. I thought it felt much like a DA revolver.
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Old October 23, 2020, 06:19 PM   #17
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My experience mirrors Bob's. I've had a SBH that never bothered me with VERY heavy loads using the longer dragoon grip with smooth wood, and I currently have a BH in 41 mag that chewed me up with the standard checkered plastic grip, but is an easy shooter with a Pachmayr rubber grip. My only experience with the Bisley grip was not positive, as it banged my middle knuckle mercilessly shooting heavy 45 Colt loads.
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Old October 24, 2020, 01:45 PM   #18
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I have a .22 Bisley, and the triggerguard rams into my knuckle. I wouldn't want to try with anything bigger. I have large hands with long fingers. Nothing fits me anyway.

The grip itself feels quite good...but the triggerguard is in the way. I would probably prefer the "Dragoon" long grip. I bought one to put on another .22 single six. I have yet to do so, though.
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Old October 31, 2020, 12:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
The Ruger Bisley grip is a copy of the Colt Bisley grip that was intended for target shooting.
That is incorrect.

This is a Colt Bisley:






This is a Ruger Bisley






The Ruger version of the Bisley grip is very different from the original Colt Bisley grip. The Colt grip is thinner and sweeps much further forward than the Ruger version. The Ruger version of the Bisley grip is almost straight up and down.
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Old October 31, 2020, 10:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Bisley grips are for people that want to shoot their SA revolver like a DA or a pistol, or like having their revolver naturally point at their feet.

"Plow" grips are for people that know how to let it roll.

(Recoil should not be a factor. If you're getting bitten, you're doing it wrong.)
Have you shot anything with any appreciable amount of recoil? I bet not.

There's a very good reason why all you major big bore conversions use the Bisley grip frame. Because it is measurably better at handling recoil. Because it spreads recoil forces over more of the palm and allows for more control. "If you're getting bitten, you're doing it wrong." Or your grips do not fit your hands. Or you need a Bisley.

If the gun points at your feet, you're doing it wrong.
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Old October 31, 2020, 03:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Have you shot anything with any appreciable amount of recoil? I bet not.

There's a very good reason why all you major big bore conversions use the Bisley grip frame. Because it is measurably better at handling recoil. Because it spreads recoil forces over more of the palm and allows for more control. "If you're getting bitten, you're doing it wrong." Or your grips do not fit your hands. Or you need a Bisley.
"Do not judge, lest ye be judged yourself."
Or, in interwebs terms, don't assume.
Just because the current state of the world is all about hating anyone that disagrees with you, doesn't mean that they're automatically full of crap and have zero experience.

I have owned a .44 Mag SBH since 1998. "Plow handle" in all of its glory. It was shot so much that it had to be sent back to Ruger for a new cylinder in 2012. They felt the overall wear was substantial enough to rebuild the entire revolver. So, yes, you could say I've shot it a bit. And I don't shoot mouse fart loads in the SBH. Right now, my supply of loaded 180 gr ammo clocks almost 1,800 fps from a 7.5" barrel. But I actually prefer the heavies. My go-to load is a Lee 310 WFN at 1,350 fps.

That SBH has not been the only player. I've also spent plenty of time with, owned, or currently own S&W 29s and 629s, Blackhawks, Redhawks, and Super Redhawks. .41 Mag, .44 Mag, .45 Colt, and .480 Ruger.
And a few rifle cartridges in TC "handguns".

There is a definitive difference between a 'plow handle' grip and a double action style grip.
That difference is being able to manage recoil with a "roll" on the plow handle. If you can't handle it, you're doing it wrong or have huge hands that just don't fit.
Heavy recoil only makes poor technique or bad fit shine through. It doesn't change the dynamics of the system.

Same thing for guys that bust their knuckles on square trigger guards. That's just bad technique - usually involving choking up on the grip too far ... as in a double-action grip.
Don't mess with the tool if you don't know how to use it.

Quote:
If the gun points at your feet, you're doing it wrong.
When gripping a cylindrical or rectangular object, the human hand does not naturally point straight up and down, when held vertically at arms length and head height. It points forward.
You must assume an unnatural posture to hold a Bisley grip so that the revolver is on target. It naturally points at the ground.
The grip is poorly designed. It is a crutch for people with bad technique or genetic mutation.

Is the plow handle a good grip design? Arguably, no.
It seems somewhat silly to let the gun move around as a natural part of firing it.
But the Bisley grip was not the correct answer to maintaining control. It was a poorly conceived crutch that served to satisfy people that couldn't adapt to being part of the recoil management system for the revolvers.
The better answer was moving the grip *up* in relation to the bore axis, while maintaining a natural angle for the grip. ...Just like we see with modern double actions.
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Old October 31, 2020, 03:30 PM   #22
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Oh well- I will stick to my inferior grip frames. They seem to point naturally for me.

I have had just about every kind of Ruger single action grip frame at some point and we can even talk about the difference in feel between the aluminum frame and "identical" steel frame... I can tell the difference and I like the Aluminum even though you can see they are not as accurately made as the steel and the paint chips on 'em.

Let's all agree that the Shopkeeper grip is best not used in the heavy recoil department!
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Old October 31, 2020, 03:53 PM   #23
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I’ve had a Super Blackhawk since I was a kid. My dad always looked at SBHs when we were in gun shops. He liked it but said he had no use for it. Then I got one and shot up a storm with it. My Dad couldn’t shoot it because trigger guard busted his fingers. I can shoot a S&W 29 better but it’s the short hammer fall more than grip. Triggers are both fine tuned.
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Old October 31, 2020, 06:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkeypete
Let's all agree that the Shopkeeper grip is best not used in the heavy recoil department!
"Shopkeeper"?

What's that? Is that a birdshead grip?
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Old October 31, 2020, 08:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
A number of years ago I had a Ruger Bisley in .45 Colt. I was shooting some heavy loads, based on a 350 gr.cast bullet. The trigger guard whacked my middle finger unmercifully. Also has set up a 4 5/8" Blackhawk as a Bisley. After a few rounds I switched to the Dragoon style grip of the Super Blackhawk.
Thanks, Bob Wright. I've had the exact experience with the 280gr Keith in 45 Colt. I had the Dragoon style grip installed and haven't had another problem. I have 2 44 Spl and a 41 Mag Bisley that don't pound my middle finger, but I like the Dragoon grip better.
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