Remington Model 11 Cycling problem

Gumpy · August 6, 2019, 04:01 AM

Hi:
I have a unique (at least to me) cycling problem with my 1910's model 11. It appears that the bolt follows the barrel going into battery instead of staying locked until the carrier raises another shell and trips the bolt release. This is not a cleaning or recoil adjustment problem, but something internal. More confusing is that when I remove the recoil spring and hand cycle by pushing the barrel back, everything works OK. I think I know how the internals work and they seem to be doing the right thing at the right time. I am wondering if anyone out there has had the same problem with this gun or the Savage and Brownings and has found a soluition.

Virginian · August 6, 2019, 11:46 AM

Put a piece of weak masking tape on the receiver and make sure how far back the gun is going when you shoot it.

T. O'Heir · August 6, 2019, 12:47 PM

"...the bolt follows the barrel going into battery..." Screams worn or damaged disconnector in a semi-auto anything, as I recall. A Remington Model 11 is exactly the same thing as Browning Auto 5.
Gunparts has most of the parts for 'em.

Drm50 · August 6, 2019, 10:46 PM

Sounds to me the gun is not going into full recoil when fired. If you push barrel down short of full stroke the bolt will follow the barrel back to battery. This could be two things. Both recoil spring problems. 1st is friction bushings set for the ammo you are using or bushing cracked so it's digging in and retarding recoil. Second the most common and overlooked is the buffer spring unit in stock. If the unit gets full of gunk it will short stroke recoil. These Brn system guns will end up with powder residue and solvents / oils from years of cleaning in buffer tube. It is very seldom cleaned and most don't know it's there.

tangolima · August 6, 2019, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"...the bolt follows the barrel going into battery..." Screams worn or damaged disconnector in a semi-auto anything, as I recall. A Remington Model 11 is exactly the same thing as Browning Auto 5.
Gunparts has most of the parts for 'em.

It is the bolt that fails to lock back, not the hammer.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Scorch · August 7, 2019, 03:20 AM

Sounds like a worn bolt catch (the piece that catches the bolt to hold it in the rearward position) or bolt catch spring. Numrich calls it the carrier latch. Or the corner of the bolt could be broken off/worn.

The disconnector on a Browning Automatic shotgun is part of the trigger.

**4V50 Gary** · August 10, 2019, 03:35 PM

the gunsmiths and tinkerers hang out.

mulespurs · August 10, 2019, 08:58 PM

I think you oil the friction rings on the magazine tube liberally and try it again.
let us know if that don't work.

Scorch · August 11, 2019, 12:25 AM

Friction rings are not supposed to be oiled. After all, they're there for friction.

Does this shotgun have a big, soft recoil pad on it?

Gumpy · August 11, 2019, 04:30 AM

Thanks for the replies. The gun was dissassembled and reblued, so cleaning is not the problem. The disconnector works fine and a new carrier latch was installed and works. This is an older model with no recoil pad and no recoil buffer.
DRM and the Viginian have hit the problem - it does not go into full recoil when fired. I set the recoil rings for light loads and even when firing heavy loads, it does not go into full recoil. The model 11 is new to me, so I took out my 11-48 that works and tested the force needed to operate the action with the spring installed. The 11-48 has an even force as the barrel is pushed back, but the model 11 is "jerky" and takes about 3 times the force. Friction ring appears fine and oil does not help. At this point, I think it has to do with the rust bluing which put a light etch on the magazine cylinder. With 20-20 hindsight, I dont think this part should have been rust blued. Next step is to polish the magazine tube to a fine finish and see if the "jerky" movement goes away and if the force is the same as on my 11-48. Will let y'all know the results.

Gumpy · August 20, 2019, 05:25 AM

OK - polished the magazine tube to a fine finish and oiled. Checked the friction ring (clean and undamaged) and set up for light loads. Still would not fully cycle, even with heavy loads.

Ran intto a gentleman who was a gunsmith at Reminton's Ilion plamt for 40 years and shared my story. He went through the usual cleaning and set up solutions and finally recommended cutting the recoil spring down 1/4" at a time. Thought the spring may have been chaged in the past - possible since the numbers do not match. Did some research and found spring lengths went from 6" to 13" for the model 11 and wire diametrers varied greatly. My spring is the old style square wire and 8 3/4" long. Found a square wire on e-Bay at 6 7/8" and will try it along with the friction ring and washer.

Still can't figure out why the Sportman recoil spring is usually shorter than the regular spring even though the barrel ring to receiver distance is the same? Can see why the trench gun with the short barrel should have a lighter spring, but not a Sportsman with a 28" barrel? My barrel is also 28".

confused:

tangolima · August 20, 2019, 09:31 AM

How many friction rings (it can be more than one) does the gun have? Can you describe how you set up the ring(s) for light loads?

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

August 6, 2019, 04:01 AM	#1
Gumpy Junior Member Join Date: August 5, 2019 Posts: 3	Remington Model 11 Cycling problem Hi: I have a unique (at least to me) cycling problem with my 1910's model 11. It appears that the bolt follows the barrel going into battery instead of staying locked until the carrier raises another shell and trips the bolt release. This is not a cleaning or recoil adjustment problem, but something internal. More confusing is that when I remove the recoil spring and hand cycle by pushing the barrel back, everything works OK. I think I know how the internals work and they seem to be doing the right thing at the right time. I am wondering if anyone out there has had the same problem with this gun or the Savage and Brownings and has found a soluition.

August 6, 2019, 11:46 AM	#2
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	Put a piece of weak masking tape on the receiver and make sure how far back the gun is going when you shoot it. __________________ What could have happened... did.

August 6, 2019, 12:47 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...the bolt follows the barrel going into battery..." Screams worn or damaged disconnector in a semi-auto anything, as I recall. A Remington Model 11 is exactly the same thing as Browning Auto 5. Gunparts has most of the parts for 'em. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

August 7, 2019, 03:20 AM	#6
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Sounds like a worn bolt catch (the piece that catches the bolt to hold it in the rearward position) or bolt catch spring. Numrich calls it the carrier latch. Or the corner of the bolt could be broken off/worn. The disconnector on a Browning Automatic shotgun is part of the trigger. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

August 10, 2019, 03:35 PM	#7
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Moved to where the gunsmiths and tinkerers hang out. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 6, 2019, 10:46 PM	#4
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,380	Sounds to me the gun is not going into full recoil when fired. If you push barrel down short of full stroke the bolt will follow the barrel back to battery. This could be two things. Both recoil spring problems. 1st is friction bushings set for the ammo you are using or bushing cracked so it's digging in and retarding recoil. Second the most common and overlooked is the buffer spring unit in stock. If the unit gets full of gunk it will short stroke recoil. These Brn system guns will end up with powder residue and solvents / oils from years of cleaning in buffer tube. It is very seldom cleaned and most don't know it's there.

August 10, 2019, 08:58 PM	#8
mulespurs Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Posts: 115	A5 clone I think you oil the friction rings on the magazine tube liberally and try it again. let us know if that don't work.

August 11, 2019, 12:25 AM	#9
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Friction rings are not supposed to be oiled. After all, they're there for friction. Does this shotgun have a big, soft recoil pad on it? __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

August 11, 2019, 04:30 AM	#10
Gumpy Junior Member Join Date: August 5, 2019 Posts: 3	Thank you. Thanks for the replies. The gun was dissassembled and reblued, so cleaning is not the problem. The disconnector works fine and a new carrier latch was installed and works. This is an older model with no recoil pad and no recoil buffer. DRM and the Viginian have hit the problem - it does not go into full recoil when fired. I set the recoil rings for light loads and even when firing heavy loads, it does not go into full recoil. The model 11 is new to me, so I took out my 11-48 that works and tested the force needed to operate the action with the spring installed. The 11-48 has an even force as the barrel is pushed back, but the model 11 is "jerky" and takes about 3 times the force. Friction ring appears fine and oil does not help. At this point, I think it has to do with the rust bluing which put a light etch on the magazine cylinder. With 20-20 hindsight, I dont think this part should have been rust blued. Next step is to polish the magazine tube to a fine finish and see if the "jerky" movement goes away and if the force is the same as on my 11-48. Will let y'all know the results.

August 20, 2019, 05:25 AM	#11
Gumpy Junior Member Join Date: August 5, 2019 Posts: 3	Still not cycling OK - polished the magazine tube to a fine finish and oiled. Checked the friction ring (clean and undamaged) and set up for light loads. Still would not fully cycle, even with heavy loads. Ran intto a gentleman who was a gunsmith at Reminton's Ilion plamt for 40 years and shared my story. He went through the usual cleaning and set up solutions and finally recommended cutting the recoil spring down 1/4" at a time. Thought the spring may have been chaged in the past - possible since the numbers do not match. Did some research and found spring lengths went from 6" to 13" for the model 11 and wire diametrers varied greatly. My spring is the old style square wire and 8 3/4" long. Found a square wire on e-Bay at 6 7/8" and will try it along with the friction ring and washer. Still can't figure out why the Sportman recoil spring is usually shorter than the regular spring even though the barrel ring to receiver distance is the same? Can see why the trench gun with the short barrel should have a lighter spring, but not a Sportsman with a 28" barrel? My barrel is also 28". confused:

August 20, 2019, 09:31 AM	#12
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,824	How many friction rings (it can be more than one) does the gun have? Can you describe how you set up the ring(s) for light loads? -TL Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk