Dry Firing with Jewelers Rouge? - Page 2

Radny97 · August 31, 2019, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankenMauser

Par for the course. You're not going to be able to get much better, if at all.
The .22 LR and .327 Federal models have to have the stiffer springs for reliable ignition. (.22 LR, to smash the rims, of course; and .327 Federal because the cartridge uses rifle primers.)

If you want to practice with something closer to your competition revolvers, use your competition revolvers.

I didn’t know 327 fed mag required rifle primers.
Shims are cheap and i don’t mind the tinkering. If it works, great. If not, I’ll just swap back.
I can reload my competition rounds for .11 per round. I can purchase reliable 22 ammo for .045 a round and i don’t have to spend the time reloading it. So if i can make it work, it’s certainly worth it to me.

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Cosmodragoon · September 1, 2019, 12:25 AM

I wouldn't do it. It's a messy shotgun-style approach to a precision issue. What do you actually want to smooth out here? Also, have you done a really deep cleaning and quality relubing? I've had that help with used guns.

Within the last year or two, I started doing that with new folding knives. It varies but I've gotten some noticeable improvement over factory condition, especially with budget knives on ball bearings. The next time I buy a new gun, I'm going to see if the practice carries over.

I've been meaning to add shims to an SP101 for a while and it keeps getting bumped on the project list. Side-to-side play in triggers and hammers can be a real bug for me.

SIGSHR · September 1, 2019, 01:53 PM

I have seen jeweler's rouge mentioned for smoothing bolt action rifles, as others have noted, not that suitable for revolvers.
Always thought dry firing easier on a handgun than live fire, no hot gasses, hot lead in the barrel, powder residue, etc.

bedbugbilly · September 1, 2019, 05:29 PM

IMHO . . . putting rouge or any abrasive in a gun action is akin to throwing a handful of sand in the crankcase of a new engine to "break it in". If you were to do it and not get it all completely cleaned out, it will continue to wear on everything it comes in contact with. If you are firm on wanting to "smooth" things out . . . take it apart and stone what needs to be stoned but make sure you know what you are doing . . . or pay for a professionally done action job. I have owned many revolvers over the years and never felt the need or an "action job" - good od use will smooth things out unless the machining quality is so bad that the action is no good / rough / gritty . . . in which case it should never have left the factory The smoothest revolvers I have are vintage Smiths and Colts (anywhere from 70 to 110 years old) and they got that way by being used.

Radny97 · September 7, 2019, 01:26 AM

Status Update:
I ditched the idea of putting jewelers rouge in the gun (GP100 in 22lr). I installed some hammer shims and stoned a couple thousands off the hammer stop. I then polished the right side of the transfer bar. I installed an 8 pound trigger return spring and a 12 pound hammer spring. (I believe the stock hammer spring on the 22lr model is about 17 pounds, its well above the 14 pound stock springs on the 357 models.)
The trigger came out nice. Not quite as smooth as before (some dry firing should smooth any rough edges on the springs and shims) but lots lighter and still pretty smooth.
Took it out today and ran 80 rounds through it. I had one (1) light strike in 80 rounds. That’s encouraging progress but not as reliable as I’d like it to be.
I’ll be installing an endshake shim next to see if i can make it 100% and if i still have problems i might take another thousandth off the hammer stop.
But this effort seems to be turning out better than i thought it would.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

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AzShooter · September 7, 2019, 05:09 AM

Radny97, Looks like you are doing the right things. I believe that the endshake shim will end your problems. I did that to my S&W 617 and saw all my light strikes go away.

Next, try some different ammo. My gun is 100 % with Federal High Velocity. Runs 99 % with Blazer and CCI Mini Mags. I don't mind one misfire in 100 rounds especially during Steel Challenge stages. I can run the trigger fast enough that it really doesn't hurt my times.

Good luck. You've done a lot of work, have learned your gun for future experimentations and have had some fun.

Steven

Radny97 · September 24, 2019, 07:19 PM

Final update. Installed a .002 end shake shim and ran another 90 rounds through it with no light strikes. Hopefully it stays at 100%.
Trigger is *significantly* lighter now. Down to about 8 pounds. Was at about 14 pounds. It’s amazing what some time, a little knowhow and elbow grease can do to improve a trigger pull.

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T. O'Heir · September 25, 2019, 12:59 PM

"...packed the action with some jewelers rouge..." That's put wear on parts that shouldn't get worn. A proper trigger job involves polishing the mating parts on the trigger and sear, smoothing any remaining tool marks and changing the springs.
"...a training gun for competition..." That should be the firearm and ammo you use for whatever shooting game you're playing.

Jim Watson · September 25, 2019, 02:00 PM

Quote:

"...a training gun for competition..." That should be the firearm and ammo you use for whatever shooting game you're playing.

Which means I must be wrong too, because I have a .22 revolver and a couple of .22 autos that I use for economical practice. I do finish a practice session with the centerfire to keep my hand in for the recoil, but that is after 50-80 smallbores.

Catman42 · September 25, 2019, 07:57 PM

in the old days when all cops carried revolvers they used to take the side plate off and fill it with valve rubbing compond. then put snaps caps in the cambers and dry fire it 1000 times. never seamed to hurt the gun. just made is smooth as ever.cleaned it out and used it as their main sqweeze. cant say if it did anything. got to say my wifes ruger lcr and my lcr are smooth enough in trigger to never ever have to do that. it happened in the old days, cant say it was good or bad.

OneFreeTexan · September 25, 2019, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catman42

in the old days when all cops carried revolvers they used to take the side plate off and fill it with valve rubbing compond. then put snaps caps in the cambers and dry fire it 1000 times. never seamed to hurt the gun. just made is smooth as ever.cleaned it out and used it as their main sqweeze. cant say if it did anything. got to say my wifes ruger lcr and my lcr are smooth enough in trigger to never ever have to do that. it happened in the old days, cant say it was good or bad.

Can’t say I quite believe this story.

Catman42 · September 26, 2019, 07:33 AM

when i lived in minot north dakota i remember the police i knew did this. that was the 70/s. as a matter of beliveing my reply, why would i lie? what possible motive would i have for lieing? i never knew every policeman in the U.S., just those in minot n.dak and a couple in bismark n.dak. i never done it. the one officer was responsible for taking down a big drug dealer in that village back then. he had to shoot the drug dealers gaurd dog to get at the drug dealer. one of the officers also had to return fire on a drunken airman who cut loose with a colt 45 auto at a road house. i remember it was the talk of the village back then as he took the airmans left testicle off with the return fire. we teased him about being such a good shot that he could do that. again, why would i lie? just repeated what i heard.

Jim Watson · September 26, 2019, 09:57 AM

I know it has been done, but that does not make it a good idea.

Toothpaste, too.

September 1, 2019, 05:29 PM	#29
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	IMHO . . . putting rouge or any abrasive in a gun action is akin to throwing a handful of sand in the crankcase of a new engine to "break it in". If you were to do it and not get it all completely cleaned out, it will continue to wear on everything it comes in contact with. If you are firm on wanting to "smooth" things out . . . take it apart and stone what needs to be stoned but make sure you know what you are doing . . . or pay for a professionally done action job. I have owned many revolvers over the years and never felt the need or an "action job" - good od use will smooth things out unless the machining quality is so bad that the action is no good / rough / gritty . . . in which case it should never have left the factory The smoothest revolvers I have are vintage Smiths and Colts (anywhere from 70 to 110 years old) and they got that way by being used. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

September 7, 2019, 01:26 AM	#30
Radny97 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2015 Posts: 1,021	Dry Firing with Jewelers Rouge? Status Update: I ditched the idea of putting jewelers rouge in the gun (GP100 in 22lr). I installed some hammer shims and stoned a couple thousands off the hammer stop. I then polished the right side of the transfer bar. I installed an 8 pound trigger return spring and a 12 pound hammer spring. (I believe the stock hammer spring on the 22lr model is about 17 pounds, its well above the 14 pound stock springs on the 357 models.) The trigger came out nice. Not quite as smooth as before (some dry firing should smooth any rough edges on the springs and shims) but lots lighter and still pretty smooth. Took it out today and ran 80 rounds through it. I had one (1) light strike in 80 rounds. That’s encouraging progress but not as reliable as I’d like it to be. I’ll be installing an endshake shim next to see if i can make it 100% and if i still have problems i might take another thousandth off the hammer stop. But this effort seems to be turning out better than i thought it would. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

September 25, 2019, 12:59 PM	#33
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...packed the action with some jewelers rouge..." That's put wear on parts that shouldn't get worn. A proper trigger job involves polishing the mating parts on the trigger and sear, smoothing any remaining tool marks and changing the springs. "...a training gun for competition..." That should be the firearm and ammo you use for whatever shooting game you're playing. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 1, 2019, 12:25 AM	#27
Cosmodragoon Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2013 Location: Northeastern US Posts: 1,869	I wouldn't do it. It's a messy shotgun-style approach to a precision issue. What do you actually want to smooth out here? Also, have you done a really deep cleaning and quality relubing? I've had that help with used guns. Within the last year or two, I started doing that with new folding knives. It varies but I've gotten some noticeable improvement over factory condition, especially with budget knives on ball bearings. The next time I buy a new gun, I'm going to see if the practice carries over. I've been meaning to add shims to an SP101 for a while and it keeps getting bumped on the project list. Side-to-side play in triggers and hammers can be a real bug for me.

September 1, 2019, 01:53 PM	#28
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	I have seen jeweler's rouge mentioned for smoothing bolt action rifles, as others have noted, not that suitable for revolvers. Always thought dry firing easier on a handgun than live fire, no hot gasses, hot lead in the barrel, powder residue, etc.

September 7, 2019, 05:09 AM	#31
AzShooter Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Surprise, Az. Posts: 766	Radny97, Looks like you are doing the right things. I believe that the endshake shim will end your problems. I did that to my S&W 617 and saw all my light strikes go away. Next, try some different ammo. My gun is 100 % with Federal High Velocity. Runs 99 % with Blazer and CCI Mini Mags. I don't mind one misfire in 100 rounds especially during Steel Challenge stages. I can run the trigger fast enough that it really doesn't hurt my times. Good luck. You've done a lot of work, have learned your gun for future experimentations and have had some fun. Steven

September 24, 2019, 07:19 PM	#32
Radny97 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2015 Posts: 1,021	Final update. Installed a .002 end shake shim and ran another 90 rounds through it with no light strikes. Hopefully it stays at 100%. Trigger is significantly lighter now. Down to about 8 pounds. Was at about 14 pounds. It’s amazing what some time, a little knowhow and elbow grease can do to improve a trigger pull. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

September 25, 2019, 07:57 PM	#35
Catman42 Member Join Date: September 15, 2019 Posts: 78	in the old days when all cops carried revolvers they used to take the side plate off and fill it with valve rubbing compond. then put snaps caps in the cambers and dry fire it 1000 times. never seamed to hurt the gun. just made is smooth as ever.cleaned it out and used it as their main sqweeze. cant say if it did anything. got to say my wifes ruger lcr and my lcr are smooth enough in trigger to never ever have to do that. it happened in the old days, cant say it was good or bad.

September 26, 2019, 07:33 AM	#37
Catman42 Member Join Date: September 15, 2019 Posts: 78	when i lived in minot north dakota i remember the police i knew did this. that was the 70/s. as a matter of beliveing my reply, why would i lie? what possible motive would i have for lieing? i never knew every policeman in the U.S., just those in minot n.dak and a couple in bismark n.dak. i never done it. the one officer was responsible for taking down a big drug dealer in that village back then. he had to shoot the drug dealers gaurd dog to get at the drug dealer. one of the officers also had to return fire on a drunken airman who cut loose with a colt 45 auto at a road house. i remember it was the talk of the village back then as he took the airmans left testicle off with the return fire. we teased him about being such a good shot that he could do that. again, why would i lie? just repeated what i heard.

September 26, 2019, 09:57 AM	#38
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	I know it has been done, but that does not make it a good idea. Toothpaste, too.