Confused about my 270 Win Reloads

[hounddawg]

Such light weight skinny barreled rifles will shoot as accurate as a 15 pound match rifle if built the same way. It's a barrel fit to receiver issue, not its heating up. A heavy match rifle built like commercial featherweight rifles will string shots as the barrel heats up.

sure Bart , I guess that's why target rifles and varmint rifles all have pencil barrels..oh wait they don't! They use heavy barrels

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by hounddawg

sure Bart , I guess that's why target rifles and varmint rifles all have pencil barrels..oh wait they don't! They use heavy barrels

Some use 30" long, skinny, light weight barrels. I've used one with a 4 pound weight.

Standard 2 pound weight and profile M1A 22" barrels have tested half MOA at 600 yards in match grade rifles. A few pounds of weight is added in magazines and stock to make them easier to hold steady.

Regardless of length, weight and profile, they all whip and wiggle at their fixed resonant and harmonic frequencies 100% repeatable from shot to shot to shot. Most repeatable part of the system.

[hounddawg]

Bart , I took my daughter to a circus once and saw a poodle in a ballerina costume ride a little bicycle but I don't expect to see the poodle in the Tour De France any time soon

On a more serious note most serious target shooters believe that as barrels heat up the warp slightly. Thicker barrels are better to dissipate heat.

How much I have no clue but I have never seen a serous F class or Benchrest shooter use anything other than a bull barrel, I have a varmint taper on a couple of my rifles but then I am not a serious competitor.

The main point I have been trying to make is a good hunting rifle and a good target rifle are like a Corvette and a Jeep Wrangler. Both are cool just in different ways

[Bart B.]

Bliss. Very bliss. There are other target shooting disciplines whose skinny barrels shoot like F class and benchrest thick ones do when correctly compared. Benchresters and F class shooting their stuff in them would not do well, if allowed.

One more point.... I judge rifle accuracy by the largest groups fired. That happens when all the variables are at their extremes adding up in all directions.

Smallest groups are shot when one of two things happens; all variables are at their minimum or they cancel each other out. No easy way to tell which one it is but one is most probable.

[zplinker]

After having built and shot a good number of rifles, it comes down to what BB said: IF you have a properly built rifle, (factory...not likely), they are not fussy. So, when things are all over the map, its hard to say where your problem lies, but no amount of ammo tinkering is likely to suddenly cause it to be wonderful. You are up against the proverbial brick wall. Options include: accepting it for what it is, having a competent smith tear it apart, and straighten out the 'wrongs', or trade it off, and hope the next one is better. Since few factory barrels are what you'd call stellar, I'd opt for putting on a quality aftermarket barrel, which would include straightening out all the hacks that some factory had produced. Don't let price fool you either, as I've seen some high dollar factory rigs turn out to be very sloppy, and some with barrels that are absolute rejects.

[hoffbill]

I noticed you are shooting 150 gr bullets. Every 270 I have loaded for struggled for great accuracy with those. That said, 1" and less groups as you had with a couple of your loads is pretty good for an off the shelf rifle and is also very acceptable accuracy for most hunting situations. If you have not tried 130 gr bullets, you may want to. 130 gr is really the optimum bullet for the 270 and I have found it much easier to get consistent tight groups with them. My favorite powder for 270 is Hodgden H100V with Hornady SST bullets. H100V 53gr with 130 SST and 50gr with 150 SST my go to loads. These were giving me virtually same POI. Haven't shot 270 much last 5 yrs as I have been playing with other calibers but if you keep having troubles you might try these powder/bullet conbinations.

[old roper]

My 270 has lilja barrel and I think anyone who spends money on upgrading factory rifle understand there can be gain in accuracy.

Big difference in target vs hunting rifle. Match shooters get to shoot sighter so they can make adjustment before match.

Hunters it's first shot that counts and that from cold barrel. You can shoot all the groups you want but it's first shot that counts.

I'm using Nosler data for 150gr I'm shooting.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by old roper

Big difference in target vs hunting rifle. Match shooters get to shoot sighter so they can make adjustment before match.

In some matches, no sighters are allowed.

The first shot, for score or a sighter, tells you how well you corrected for conditions. Very important in competition.

Do benchresters ever shoot a match without sighters? I can imagine what size a 5 shot group would be. And how they might feel about it.

[HiBC]

I think folks are posting honest observations based on their experience.

But those experiences are affected by variables.

Example: A production receiver might be machined then heat treated. The cutouts,etc pretty much guarantee some warpage n heat treat. I don't thin the cost conscious gunmaker do a post heat treat machining operaton to true up the receiver.

OK,now lets look at the front face of the receiver ring.The one the barrel tightens up on. That s literally the foundation of accuracy. That circle is what points and controls the barrel,square,solid,and true,...or like a chair with a leg too long,or a loose fencepost hole.

The barrel gets screwed into a receiver ...which,looking at typical receiver rails,is just how rigid? See,a 1 5/16 bull barrel might be real rigid,but wat about the receiver that barrel s hanging in? Two receiver rails and a front ring? Mausers bend easy.

In my experience,properly installed,the good old Douglas Premum FWT barrel can deliver excellent HUNTING accuracy in the vicinity of 1 MOA,+ or -.
What more do you need on a FWT hunting rifle? Now,serious competition? Not my world, but a .240 MOA rifle vs a .400 MOA rifle might be a big deal.

Hunting,its just not.

Heat,and "walking"? Well,I've looked through a few major mfgr barrels that I could see were not straight.Uneven wall thickness.

Not all barrels are created equal.Go to Kreiger's barrel website and read his barrel making process. Between te stress releving stages and cut rifling,Krieger,and similar quality barrels are about as stress free as humanly possible.

A Remchester or whatever production button rifled barrel will inherently have considerable stress. That might matter with heat and walking

There are more factors at play, I'm just saying the general rules that we might believe in are not universally true all the time.

I'd bet pretty heavy on reliable "pretty good" accuracy from a rifle with a squared receiver ring, a custom vs bargain quality barrel, bedded stress free in a free floated reasonably stable and rigid stock...and on most HUNTING rifles,mine will jave a #3 or lighter barrel.FWIW, IMO,some ifles just need a beautiful walnut stock..but for a dependable ,first round cold bore game animal money shot, I'll take a foam core glass/Kevlar/epoxy free floated epoxy bedded stock. Every time

Anything can happen.I might get surprised and disappointed...but I'd build that rifle believing it will shoot.


While handloding can optimize the performance of a good rifle...at some point ts tme and money wasted f the rifle has a problem upstream of the ammo.


And last: A 2 MOA rifle will kill elk just fine as far away as we ought to shoot at them.

If you have that,go scout. Sharpen your knives. Tend to your boots,look at satelte photos,etc

[std7mag]

Almost all the rifles i own are hunting rifles. If i didn't ming lugging my wifes 12lb Savage 110 FP, in 223 Rem, i could use it for hunting also. I won't. But i could.
For me, if i have a rifle that i can't get below 2MOA, it's going on Gunbroker!

BartB,
Excatly my point. Powder charge changes show up in the verticle plane.
Shooting single shots looking for 3 closest vertically is where your powder charge node is.
Group size to be determined by seating depth.
Take one thing at a time, saves a lot of tail chasing.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by std7mag

BartB,
Excatly my point. Powder charge changes show up in the verticle plane.
Shooting single shots looking for 3 closest vertically is where your powder charge node is.
Group size to be determined by seating depth.
Take one thing at a time, saves a lot of tail chasing.

Such tests , to me, are valid only when at least 5 produce the same vertical positions across all.

Anyone ever shoot the same 5-load ladder test 4 or 5 times to see what the vertical spread of each consecutive shot was? It's never zero. Each load has some vertical spread. Some will overlap.