Recoil spring testers - Page 2

Walt Sherrill · January 17, 2018, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJimP

( I broke my first recoil spring in a 5" 1911 in 9mm about 2 months ago...it was a new 12.5 lb CS spring from ISMI....the spring had about 6,000 to 7,500 rds thru it since I changed it ). Spring broke shooting the gun ..about 2 links snapped at muzzle end of gun ...first one I have broken in shooting 1911's for well over 40 yrs / gun did not jam, I found it when I broke the gun down for cleaning that same afternoon ( I think the Full Length Guide Rod helped gun to continue to run with broken spring).. / First one I have broken in this gun, its 11 yrs old, Wilson combat, 5" all stainless and about 200,000 rds thru it . I was changing recoil springs about every 10,000 rds -- for CS springs - even though Wilson Combat says they have a 20,000 rd life - because this gun is my primary range, training and carry gun.

A broken recoil or magazine is a relative rarity -- because with coil springs the work is spread over more of the spring's material as the spring works than is the case with flat springs. Coil springs in guns typically soften and don't let the gun function properly before they break. A break in either of those type of springs might suggest a defective area in the steel... The fact that the gun (and spring) continued to function after the break seems to support that idea.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 17, 2018, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cw308

I'm not shooting hot loads , the Colt assembly operated 100% using W231 4.6 gr. With 230 gr. FMJ & Plated bullets OAL 1.255 will see how the EGW works with the same reloads.

That's a very light load. What kind of velocities are you getting, around 650 or 675 fps?

cw308 · January 17, 2018, 11:09 PM

Aguila Blanca
I really don't know , don't have a chronograph , 4.4 stove pipe every once an a wile 4.5 no problems , 4.6 is the load I practice with 21' max.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 18, 2018, 12:05 AM

I load Berry's 230-gr plated round nose over 5.3 grains of Winchester 231 and I get about 775 fps. What bullets are you using?

cw308 · January 18, 2018, 07:28 AM

Plated are Rainier , FMJ are PrecisionDelta .

kozak6 · January 18, 2018, 07:42 AM

The average shooter probably isn't going to wear out a spring.

Otherwise, it's easier to adhere to a maintenance schedule and replace it every so many thousand rounds according to manufacturer recommendations.

cw308 · January 18, 2018, 09:26 AM

Kozak6
I shoot often , wouldn't it be the same when reaching the so many1000 round mark.

Walt Sherrill · January 18, 2018, 09:48 AM

As Aquila Blanca (and I) noted, guns don't generally malfunction that much until a recoil or magazine spring has degraded quite a bit. A coil spring can break, but that sort of failure is seldom a function of long-term usage; it can happen early in a spring's service life. Typically, coil springs get softer over their life, but some seem to last forever if the gun design doesn't push the springs too far.

Knowing how much a spring's resistance has weakened will be information, but until you hit some threshold -- which will arguably be a threshold YOU define if the gun continues to function with a weakened spring -- when to change springs is something only YOU can decide, and it could be a very subjective decision.

It would seem, too, that the threshold you set could be different from gun design to gun design, or if you shoot just one type of gun or a single gun, from spring weight to spring weight, from spring design to spring design, and might also be somewhat affected by the loads used (with hotter loads maybe needing stronger springs than weaker loads). How do you make that information you're accumulating useful?

(The number of cycles suggested by some gun makers -- which they don't seem to do as much as they once did -- seems more about them covering their butts and holding down customer service calls -- than a useful guideline.)

I wonder if the spring makers have any suggestions about how to assess spring performance?

BigJimP · January 18, 2018, 02:04 PM

Walt...I agree,

I think it was probably a flaw in the steel....that caused the recoil sping to break in my 5" 1911....vs anything a spring tester would tell me. More than anything, I used the failure to justify trying something new & converting it to a Flat Spring... so far the Flat Spring has only been in the gun for about 2 weeks ( so only about 20 boxes thru gun on that spring / 1,000 rds )....FWIW, the gun has run 100% on the new flat spring, the new FLGR ...and it feels the same vs the old FLGR & traditional coil spring ...gun was very smooth before...same now.

The new FLGR - new Flat spring & new end cap is approx 1/2 oz lighter....than the previous FLGR, spring & end cap...and in a 45 oz gun, I can't tell the difference.

Other than spring life ( wilson combat says about 4,000 rd life on a standard recoil spring, 20,000 rds on a CS spring ..and they expect 40,000 rds on flat spring ...)...so we'll see ...( in that Wilson, 5" all stainless 9mm - I run about 20,000 rds a yr of my reloads, 115 gr FMJ Montana Gold bullet, 4.7 gr TiteGroup @ about 1145 fps....) ...so its an average load.

January 18, 2018, 09:48 AM	#33
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	As Aquila Blanca (and I) noted, guns don't generally malfunction that much until a recoil or magazine spring has degraded quite a bit. A coil spring can break, but that sort of failure is seldom a function of long-term usage; it can happen early in a spring's service life. Typically, coil springs get softer over their life, but some seem to last forever if the gun design doesn't push the springs too far. Knowing how much a spring's resistance has weakened will be information, but until you hit some threshold -- which will arguably be a threshold YOU define if the gun continues to function with a weakened spring -- when to change springs is something only YOU can decide, and it could be a very subjective decision. It would seem, too, that the threshold you set could be different from gun design to gun design, or if you shoot just one type of gun or a single gun, from spring weight to spring weight, from spring design to spring design, and might also be somewhat affected by the loads used (with hotter loads maybe needing stronger springs than weaker loads). How do you make that information you're accumulating useful? (The number of cycles suggested by some gun makers -- which they don't seem to do as much as they once did -- seems more about them covering their butts and holding down customer service calls -- than a useful guideline.) I wonder if the spring makers have any suggestions about how to assess spring performance? Last edited by Walt Sherrill; January 18, 2018 at 10:35 AM.

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January 17, 2018, 11:09 PM	#28
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Aguila Blanca I really don't know , don't have a chronograph , 4.4 stove pipe every once an a wile 4.5 no problems , 4.6 is the load I practice with 21' max.

January 18, 2018, 12:05 AM	#29
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,458	I load Berry's 230-gr plated round nose over 5.3 grains of Winchester 231 and I get about 775 fps. What bullets are you using?

January 18, 2018, 07:28 AM	#30
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Plated are Rainier , FMJ are PrecisionDelta .

January 18, 2018, 07:42 AM	#31
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	The average shooter probably isn't going to wear out a spring. Otherwise, it's easier to adhere to a maintenance schedule and replace it every so many thousand rounds according to manufacturer recommendations.

January 18, 2018, 09:26 AM	#32
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Kozak6 I shoot often , wouldn't it be the same when reaching the so many1000 round mark.

January 18, 2018, 02:04 PM	#34
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Walt...I agree, I think it was probably a flaw in the steel....that caused the recoil sping to break in my 5" 1911....vs anything a spring tester would tell me. More than anything, I used the failure to justify trying something new & converting it to a Flat Spring... so far the Flat Spring has only been in the gun for about 2 weeks ( so only about 20 boxes thru gun on that spring / 1,000 rds )....FWIW, the gun has run 100% on the new flat spring, the new FLGR ...and it feels the same vs the old FLGR & traditional coil spring ...gun was very smooth before...same now. The new FLGR - new Flat spring & new end cap is approx 1/2 oz lighter....than the previous FLGR, spring & end cap...and in a 45 oz gun, I can't tell the difference. Other than spring life ( wilson combat says about 4,000 rd life on a standard recoil spring, 20,000 rds on a CS spring ..and they expect 40,000 rds on flat spring ...)...so we'll see ...( in that Wilson, 5" all stainless 9mm - I run about 20,000 rds a yr of my reloads, 115 gr FMJ Montana Gold bullet, 4.7 gr TiteGroup @ about 1145 fps....) ...so its an average load.