Lets talk patches - Page 2

mykeal · March 15, 2012, 09:37 PM

That guy in Muzzle Blasts was Dutch Schoultz and what he sold was his system for shooting a muzzle loading rifle accurately. He still sells it from a web site: Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System.

Dutch is now in his 80's and doesn't shoot any more. Selling this is his only income besides social security. It's the best $20 I've ever spent on black powder stuff without question.

BTW, he now recommends Ballistol instead of the cutting oil.

deerslayer303 · March 15, 2012, 10:57 PM

[QUOTEPatches cut at the muzzle are always better.
][/QUOTE]

Could you explain how this is done. I'm guessing you cut a square patch and seat the ball with the short starter, then trim the excess?? Is this right?

arcticap · March 16, 2012, 02:03 AM

The ball is started and then the excess patching is cut flush at the muzzle with a patch knife.
Folks often use strips of patch material that have been pre-lubed so there's some excess to hold on to in for cutting it.

Hawg · March 16, 2012, 04:35 AM

I use a long strip and seat the ball flush with the muzzle so there's no overlap. You don't want patch material coming over the front of the ball.

mykeal · March 16, 2012, 05:27 AM

Like Hawg I use a long strip of patch material (pillow ticking, cut into strips 1 1/4" wide, soaked with 1:6 ratio of Ballistol to water and dried); lay the end of the strip across the muzzle, set the ball on top of the material and start it into the muzzle with my thumb, use a ball starter to push it in until it's flush with the muzzle, hold the strip tight and cut across the muzzle with a very sharp patch knife. I then use the ball starter to ram it down a couple of inches and finish with a solid brass range rod.

Never thought about excess patch material in front of the ball. Seems to me it would get pushed out of the way. But, as Hawg said, seating the ball flush with the end and cutting across the muzzle pretty much cleans it up anyway.

Satokad · November 22, 2017, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcticap

Another very popular patch material is #40 Drill Cloth which is sold at JoAnn's Fabrics.

Not to resurrect a dead string, but this was very helpful to me tonight. I was in JoAnn Fabrics looking to buy fabric for patches. I asked about the #40 Drill Cloth and they had never heard of it. They looked it up on their computer and it turned out they had a bunch in stock (and on sale at 50% off).
Thanks for the info.

Old Stony · November 23, 2017, 04:07 AM

Been using a Murphy's oil soap/Windex mix for many years, both for lubing patches and cleaning. It's always done a good job for me. I lube the patches with a mist as I load the firearm and seating the balls sort of scrubs some of the fouling loose as it goes down the barrel. I shoot complete matches without scrubbing the bore....with good results.

mehavey · November 23, 2017, 09:19 AM

I'd seen guys at matches literally "soak" their patch w/ the spray bottle, but your idea of 'misting' sounds more my damp spit-patch regimen
Might try it....

Any particular ratio of Murphy's/Windex ? (ordinarily I'd stick with my standard 7:1 ratio water/cutting oil)

Old Stony · November 24, 2017, 05:29 AM

If you take a large bottle of Windex and mix about a cup of Murphy's in it, you will have a pretty long term supply. I keep some small misting type bottles to carry to the range with me, and an even smaller one to take in my hunting bag. The wife saves me stuff like the bottles that eyeglass cleaner comes in and things like that. I soak down some patches with it after a shooting session and clean the bore with them.....never have had a problem with this system.

bamaranger · November 24, 2017, 06:43 PM

I got so sick and tired of dorking with ball size and varying patch material thickness, and so-so accuracy, that I tried some vintage FACTORY .32 Maxiball in my CVA Squirrel rifle. Acurracy was at least as good as my best attempts with PRB and so.....

Track of the Wolf was glad to sell me a Lee .32 maxiball mold, yes they were.

Hawg · November 24, 2017, 10:35 PM

The CVA .32 is a 1:48 twist.

mehavey · November 25, 2017, 07:00 AM

Berger's twist calculator comes up w/ an SG=.307 for the 32 Maxi@2,000 (unstable as all get-out)
What the heck, I ordered one last night just for fun.

Columbus took a chance.....

B.L.E. · November 25, 2017, 09:16 AM

Maxi Balls stabilized just fine in my 1:48 .45 TC. They just didn't group well until I reached maximum loads in that gun, then they were tack drivers.
Maybe that's why they are called "Maxi-Balls".

They also worked quite well in my Ruger Old Army. I could carry them pre-greased and wrapped in Saran Wrap in my pocket, rolled around the bullet and twisted shut like Tootsie Roll candies. When loading, I just squeezed them out of the wrapper.

Hawg · November 25, 2017, 12:05 PM

Maxi's worked well in my .50 Investarms Hawken with 1:48 twist and I used them for years til I made the switch to round balls. I've got a .50 CVA St. Louis Hawken that was loaded with one for at least 12 years when I got it. I shot it out but wasn't really aiming at anything so don't know how well it shoots them. I've only shot it that one time.

Satokad · November 25, 2017, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Stony

Been using a Murphy's oil soap/Windex mix for many years, both for lubing patches and cleaning. It's always done a good job for me. I lube the patches with a mist as I load the firearm and seating the balls sort of scrubs some of the fouling loose as it goes down the barrel. I shoot complete matches without scrubbing the bore....with good results.

Do you think this would work with Windex and Castor Oil? Just wondering because I read a few threads where the Murphy's leaves a bit if residue that builds up over time but, more to the point, I have Windex and Castor Oil in the house.
Thanks.

Old Stony · November 25, 2017, 05:25 PM

No idea on the Castor oil....never heard of anyone using it. I don't even know if it's water soluble. You can pick up a bottle of Murphy's pretty cheap, and mixed up it will probably last you for years. I've never heard of it leaving a residue before. It is all water soluble, so there is nothing to create problems as far as I am concerned.
There are lots of things out there to accomplish the same task....this is just one that has worked well for me.

Satokad · November 25, 2017, 07:42 PM

I tried your technique with the Windex/Castor Oil mix today. Seemed to work OK. The Castor Oil came up in another thread where a guy used a 5:1 mix of denatured alcohol to castor oil. Soak the patches and let them dry. The water evaporated but the oil remained, but the patch felt dry. I tried that type of patch too. It worked but I still had to swab after a few shots.
Thanks.

Old Stony · November 25, 2017, 08:31 PM

Letting the patches dry probably isn't going to do you much good. I mist the patch and load it, the purpose being to pick up some of the fouling as I seat the next round ball, and some of the Murphy's will still be there for lubrication purposes.

Satokad · November 25, 2017, 08:54 PM

That makes sense. The guy swore by it, but I think your method would be more effective.

Satokad · November 26, 2017, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Stony

No idea on the Castor oil....never heard of anyone using it. I don't even know if it's water soluble. You can pick up a bottle of Murphy's pretty cheap, and mixed up it will probably last you for years. I've never heard of it leaving a residue before. It is all water soluble, so there is nothing to create problems as far as I am concerned.
There are lots of things out there to accomplish the same task....this is just one that has worked well for me.

Old Stoney, I am a fan! I tried your mix today and it worked amazingly well. 10 rounds and not once did I need to swab or put lots of extra pressure to seat the PRB. The only thing I can't figure out is after the 4th shot, they all started flying high. Still around the center vertical line, but about 5" higher. Could that be due to a warm barrel?

B.L.E. · November 26, 2017, 08:12 PM

Did the light conditions change, sun going behind a cloud or vice versa?

Satokad · November 26, 2017, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.L.E.

Did the light conditions change, sun going behind a cloud or vice versa?

No, it was close to sunset, but the conditions from shot to shot didn't change. I was in a canyon so the sunlight was already gone for the day.

Old Stony · November 27, 2017, 06:07 PM

Can't really relate to the shots going high. I'd keep shooting the rifle using the same exact technique for every shot and see if things stabilize for you. The only thing I can think of that might cause something like that is perhaps the creation of a slicker bore as the Murphy's lubes things up...but that is a lot of movement. Keep at it and you'll get a handle on the whole procedure.

iac · November 30, 2017, 11:41 PM

I,ve often use long precut strips lubed w/ Crisco.
I sewed a button on the strap of my possibles bag (chest high), cut a slit near one end of the strip, and hang it off the button. To use, pick up the long end and lay it across the muzzle.

Texas Reb · December 5, 2017, 02:51 PM

I noticed some of you prefer to cut at the muzzle. Any particular reason for not pre-cutting them?

March 16, 2012, 02:03 AM	#28
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	The ball is started and then the excess patching is cut flush at the muzzle with a patch knife. Folks often use strips of patch material that have been pre-lubed so there's some excess to hold on to in for cutting it. Last edited by arcticap; March 17, 2012 at 01:41 AM.

November 24, 2017, 06:43 PM	#35
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	patches & .32 caliber I got so sick and tired of dorking with ball size and varying patch material thickness, and so-so accuracy, that I tried some vintage FACTORY .32 Maxiball in my CVA Squirrel rifle. Acurracy was at least as good as my best attempts with PRB and so..... Track of the Wolf was glad to sell me a Lee .32 maxiball mold, yes they were.

November 25, 2017, 09:16 AM	#38
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Maxi Balls stabilized just fine in my 1:48 .45 TC. They just didn't group well until I reached maximum loads in that gun, then they were tack drivers. Maybe that's why they are called "Maxi-Balls". They also worked quite well in my Ruger Old Army. I could carry them pre-greased and wrapped in Saran Wrap in my pocket, rolled around the bullet and twisted shut like Tootsie Roll candies. When loading, I just squeezed them out of the wrapper. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

November 26, 2017, 08:12 PM	#46
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Did the light conditions change, sun going behind a cloud or vice versa? __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

March 15, 2012, 09:37 PM	#26
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	That guy in Muzzle Blasts was Dutch Schoultz and what he sold was his system for shooting a muzzle loading rifle accurately. He still sells it from a web site: Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System. Dutch is now in his 80's and doesn't shoot any more. Selling this is his only income besides social security. It's the best $20 I've ever spent on black powder stuff without question. BTW, he now recommends Ballistol instead of the cutting oil.

March 15, 2012, 10:57 PM	#27
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	[QUOTEPatches cut at the muzzle are always better. ][/QUOTE] Could you explain how this is done. I'm guessing you cut a square patch and seat the ball with the short starter, then trim the excess?? Is this right?

March 16, 2012, 04:35 AM	#29
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I use a long strip and seat the ball flush with the muzzle so there's no overlap. You don't want patch material coming over the front of the ball.

March 16, 2012, 05:27 AM	#30
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Like Hawg I use a long strip of patch material (pillow ticking, cut into strips 1 1/4" wide, soaked with 1:6 ratio of Ballistol to water and dried); lay the end of the strip across the muzzle, set the ball on top of the material and start it into the muzzle with my thumb, use a ball starter to push it in until it's flush with the muzzle, hold the strip tight and cut across the muzzle with a very sharp patch knife. I then use the ball starter to ram it down a couple of inches and finish with a solid brass range rod. Never thought about excess patch material in front of the ball. Seems to me it would get pushed out of the way. But, as Hawg said, seating the ball flush with the end and cutting across the muzzle pretty much cleans it up anyway.

November 23, 2017, 04:07 AM	#32
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	Been using a Murphy's oil soap/Windex mix for many years, both for lubing patches and cleaning. It's always done a good job for me. I lube the patches with a mist as I load the firearm and seating the balls sort of scrubs some of the fouling loose as it goes down the barrel. I shoot complete matches without scrubbing the bore....with good results.

November 23, 2017, 09:19 AM	#33
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,885	I'd seen guys at matches literally "soak" their patch w/ the spray bottle, but your idea of 'misting' sounds more my damp spit-patch regimen Might try it.... Any particular ratio of Murphy's/Windex ? (ordinarily I'd stick with my standard 7:1 ratio water/cutting oil)

November 24, 2017, 05:29 AM	#34
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	If you take a large bottle of Windex and mix about a cup of Murphy's in it, you will have a pretty long term supply. I keep some small misting type bottles to carry to the range with me, and an even smaller one to take in my hunting bag. The wife saves me stuff like the bottles that eyeglass cleaner comes in and things like that. I soak down some patches with it after a shooting session and clean the bore with them.....never have had a problem with this system.

November 24, 2017, 10:35 PM	#36
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	The CVA .32 is a 1:48 twist.

November 25, 2017, 07:00 AM	#37
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,885	Berger's twist calculator comes up w/ an SG=.307 for the 32 Maxi@2,000 (unstable as all get-out) What the heck, I ordered one last night just for fun. Columbus took a chance.....

November 25, 2017, 12:05 PM	#39
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Maxi's worked well in my .50 Investarms Hawken with 1:48 twist and I used them for years til I made the switch to round balls. I've got a .50 CVA St. Louis Hawken that was loaded with one for at least 12 years when I got it. I shot it out but wasn't really aiming at anything so don't know how well it shoots them. I've only shot it that one time.

November 25, 2017, 05:25 PM	#41
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	No idea on the Castor oil....never heard of anyone using it. I don't even know if it's water soluble. You can pick up a bottle of Murphy's pretty cheap, and mixed up it will probably last you for years. I've never heard of it leaving a residue before. It is all water soluble, so there is nothing to create problems as far as I am concerned. There are lots of things out there to accomplish the same task....this is just one that has worked well for me.

November 25, 2017, 07:42 PM	#42
Satokad Junior Member Join Date: October 22, 2015 Posts: 6	I tried your technique with the Windex/Castor Oil mix today. Seemed to work OK. The Castor Oil came up in another thread where a guy used a 5:1 mix of denatured alcohol to castor oil. Soak the patches and let them dry. The water evaporated but the oil remained, but the patch felt dry. I tried that type of patch too. It worked but I still had to swab after a few shots. Thanks.

November 25, 2017, 08:31 PM	#43
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	Letting the patches dry probably isn't going to do you much good. I mist the patch and load it, the purpose being to pick up some of the fouling as I seat the next round ball, and some of the Murphy's will still be there for lubrication purposes.

November 25, 2017, 08:54 PM	#44
Satokad Junior Member Join Date: October 22, 2015 Posts: 6	That makes sense. The guy swore by it, but I think your method would be more effective.

November 27, 2017, 06:07 PM	#48
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	Can't really relate to the shots going high. I'd keep shooting the rifle using the same exact technique for every shot and see if things stabilize for you. The only thing I can think of that might cause something like that is perhaps the creation of a slicker bore as the Murphy's lubes things up...but that is a lot of movement. Keep at it and you'll get a handle on the whole procedure.

November 30, 2017, 11:41 PM	#49
iac Member Join Date: April 6, 2010 Posts: 17	I,ve often use long precut strips lubed w/ Crisco. I sewed a button on the strap of my possibles bag (chest high), cut a slit near one end of the strip, and hang it off the button. To use, pick up the long end and lay it across the muzzle.

December 5, 2017, 02:51 PM	#50
Texas Reb Member Join Date: December 29, 2014 Posts: 82	I noticed some of you prefer to cut at the muzzle. Any particular reason for not pre-cutting them?