M1 Carbine advice

rgillis · November 25, 2017, 08:31 AM

For years I’ve thought about picking up an M1 carbine. I’m not really looking for a collector’s piece, just a shooter. I’ve seen so much contradictory information regarding new manufactured M1’s that I’m not sure what to believe. Any advice would be appreciated …new vs surplus, magazine considerations, etc.

Thanks

COSteve · November 25, 2017, 09:51 AM

I have a '43 GI NPM I got back in 1974 that's so pristine that it's worth too much to shoot. I really like the M1 Carbine so a few years ago I looked for a shooter. The price for a real GI carbine in any decent shape was over $1,000 (I won't have a beater.) so I looked at the commercial NIB ones.

After a review of the offerings, I opted for an Auto Ordnance and I'm really pleased with it. The only mod I made was to remove the flip rear sight and add a Type II adjustable one. It comes with the M2 mag release so it's good with 30rd mags (AIM sells Korean ones that work perfectly.).

My AO is considerably more accurate than any GI carbine, including mine with it's pristine barrel. Using my handloads, it is sub 2 MOA all day while a GI carbine is considered really accurate if it's around 3-4 MOA. It's been reliable through over 4,000rds and is just a ton of fun to shoot.

kraigwy · November 25, 2017, 10:48 AM

GI yes, Commercial No.

I got my Underwood from the CMP. One could say its orginal, but it is and again it isnt.

It was made in 1943, all Underwood parts (as far as I can tell) so it should be original. But it has a bayonet lugs. They didnt have bayonet lugs during WWII, they were added afterwords, so it isn't.

But I dont put much stock in All Original US Surplus rifles. Everyone made parts and they were totally interchangeable. As long as its all USGI its original in my opinion, regardless of who made the parts.

Anyway I shoot mine. They were met to be shot, it wont hurt them or their value. So I shoot mine in the CMP GSM Carbine matches every chance I get.

My father was a huge Carbine fan. He used one in WWII, (Burma) and in the Korean War. Said it was a heck of a lot better then the Garand for jungle use where you seldom could see past 25 yards. Being short it was easier to handle in thick vegetation. Worked flawlessly. Much the same reason I liked the M16A1 I used in the Jungles of SE Asia.

But you can bet if my father was alive to day, he'd be out shooting my Carbine. You can take care of a rifle, shoot it, without hurting it.

OldScout · November 25, 2017, 11:09 AM

I have had an IBM M1 Carbine for many years. Had to shoot old Army ammo when I could find it for a long time. The commercial Carbine ammo was a great idea. I don't shoot it a lot, just enough to keep it shooting good. Some day it will be passed on to a Son.

T. O'Heir · November 25, 2017, 01:00 PM

"...all Underwood parts..." There's no such thing. None of the manufacturers made all the parts. Some made the receiver, only. Underwood made 35 of the parts. The rest came from other manufacturers including the hordes of small shops all over the Eastern U.S.
Bayonet lugs came in late 1945. Standard equipment in Korea.
The biggest issue with Carbines is the 'Parts' Carbines being sold as "All original". Those have been made that way by somebody with too much time and money. 99.99% of all Carbines went through an arsenal rebuild after W.W. II as well. S'when the bayonet lugs was retro fitted.
However, the jury is mostly still out regarding the new manufacture Inlands. MSRP is$1139.00 too. Wouldn't pay that much myself for any non-collector grade Carbine. Cabela's is listing "real" Inlands for less too. Mind you, one must take what they say with a big grain of salt. I've seen junker M1 Rifles in the Dundee shop at high prices. Still isn't $1100 though.
An Auto-Ordnance/Kahr Carbine runs about $850 on Guns International.
If you can find a pre-Iver Johnson Plainfield in decent condition and at a price you're willing to pay grab it. I've had mine for 40 + years and haven't had any issue a bath didn't fix. The one 30 round mag needed the lips tweaked open a tick to work properly though. Think Speer 110 grain HP's or SP's and IMR4227.
Do not buy any Universal that has a toggle for the bolt hold open and the poorly made, stamped, op handle. Those are the Late models with op handles that tend to break. No issue parts except the mags fit either. Gunparts bought all remaining parts and they're out of stock for the $90 op handles nobody is making.

jrothWA · November 25, 2017, 10:11 PM

I have a buttstock pouch with two mags loaded, with commercial softnose ammo. and the fees ramp light ly polished for minimizing feeding problems.

Looking for a second for youngest daughter for HD use.

Once a yeat clean and lube, as it on syandby.

COSteve · November 28, 2017, 01:10 PM

Quote:

kraigwy: You can take care of a rifle, shoot it, without hurting it.

Yes you can, however, you can also wear it out by shooting it and with a pristine version with a original barrel, it's worth will diminish with wear so as an investment (which my '43 NPM is) it's unwise to shoot it.

Quote:

T. O'Heir: An Auto-Ordnance/Kahr Carbine runs about $850 on Guns International.

Yep, good place to go if you want to pay $200 too much. Bud's Gun's sells a NIB Auto Ordnance for $664 delivered. AIM sells Korean mags that work 100% reliably in the AO, even the 30rd versions as the AO comes with the M2 Carbine's mag release designed for the 30rd mag.

I own a GI M1 Carbine, have for over 40 years. I own Garands, M1 Carbines, and M1A and shoot and maintain them. I know what's what with them. I own 2 AR mid-length gas carbines and a 20" A4. While they are better than my M16A1, they don't grab me like the walnut and steel rifles do but their 5.56 caliber is the draw.

I am a US Army trained Armorer trained on the M14 as well as the Garand, M1 Carbine and M16A1. I had an M14 in Germany that was worn but worked well and also an M16A1 in RVN ('68-'69) and it was a piece of junk. I even bought a NIB 583 Series Ruger Mini-14 back in early 2015 as it's styled and operates much like the M1 Carbine with a very similar action, but shoots the far superior 5.56 rd.

The AO I bought NIB in early 2012 is well made, accurate, and reliable. I shoot it regularly and enjoy it without worrying that I'll break or wear out an expensive part of history. If the OP wants to have a shooter that's accurate (for a carbine), reliable, and works well with both 15rd and 30rd Korean mags from AIM out of the box, then the AO is a good choice. If he wants a piece of history then a true GI M1 Carbine is what he wants.

The new Inlands are overpriced, commercial carbines that have an appeal only because of the name, however, they have no tie to the original Inland, Div. of General Motors. Just that someone bought the name from GM so they can stamp in on the cast receivers they also use. The Fulton Armory M1 Carbines are premium priced franken carbines with billet (case) receivers, not forged receivers used in GI carbines. Iver-Johnson and the rest are poor examples with spotty records.

ammo.crafter · November 28, 2017, 01:54 PM

Thanks for the post!

That was the first rifle I learned on and the post brought back found memories.

Ibmikey · November 29, 2017, 10:25 PM

The purchase of a non import marked GI Carbine is your best and most expensive option. The Kahr offering and Inland are both well tested and recommended but they too are expensive....abet not quite as expensive as a good condition GI. There is a lot of doom and gloom about these two offerings but. I have shot examples extensively and they work.
I am down to about a dozen Carbines from fifty peak, have been collecting them since 1963 with my DCM Inland Div. I shoot all of my Carbines from a late 1942 (very early production) to my Winchester in the six million range, they were made to shoot not hide in a dark safe.

baddarryl · November 30, 2017, 07:19 PM

Not to hijack and I hope maybe the OP will benefit from this question. I recently stumble on an IBM carbine that has the old rear site style and no import marks. I don't think the barrel is IBM as we couldn't find markings, but it was darkish and I didn't have my glasses. Overall in good solid condition, good bluing and not a beater, but certainly not a safe queen. The asking price is right around $900 if it is still there. Is there anything to look for that would scare someone away at that price? I don't know much about them, but to me it seems in line with what I have seen out there, maybe even cheap. Thanks.

November 25, 2017, 08:31 AM	#1
rgillis Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2005 Posts: 349	M1 Carbine advice For years I’ve thought about picking up an M1 carbine. I’m not really looking for a collector’s piece, just a shooter. I’ve seen so much contradictory information regarding new manufactured M1’s that I’m not sure what to believe. Any advice would be appreciated …new vs surplus, magazine considerations, etc. Thanks

November 25, 2017, 10:48 AM	#3
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	GI yes, Commercial No. I got my Underwood from the CMP. One could say its orginal, but it is and again it isnt. It was made in 1943, all Underwood parts (as far as I can tell) so it should be original. But it has a bayonet lugs. They didnt have bayonet lugs during WWII, they were added afterwords, so it isn't. But I dont put much stock in All Original US Surplus rifles. Everyone made parts and they were totally interchangeable. As long as its all USGI its original in my opinion, regardless of who made the parts. Anyway I shoot mine. They were met to be shot, it wont hurt them or their value. So I shoot mine in the CMP GSM Carbine matches every chance I get. My father was a huge Carbine fan. He used one in WWII, (Burma) and in the Korean War. Said it was a heck of a lot better then the Garand for jungle use where you seldom could see past 25 yards. Being short it was easier to handle in thick vegetation. Worked flawlessly. Much the same reason I liked the M16A1 I used in the Jungles of SE Asia. But you can bet if my father was alive to day, he'd be out shooting my Carbine. You can take care of a rifle, shoot it, without hurting it. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

November 25, 2017, 01:00 PM	#5
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...all Underwood parts..." There's no such thing. None of the manufacturers made all the parts. Some made the receiver, only. Underwood made 35 of the parts. The rest came from other manufacturers including the hordes of small shops all over the Eastern U.S. Bayonet lugs came in late 1945. Standard equipment in Korea. The biggest issue with Carbines is the 'Parts' Carbines being sold as "All original". Those have been made that way by somebody with too much time and money. 99.99% of all Carbines went through an arsenal rebuild after W.W. II as well. S'when the bayonet lugs was retro fitted. However, the jury is mostly still out regarding the new manufacture Inlands. MSRP is$1139.00 too. Wouldn't pay that much myself for any non-collector grade Carbine. Cabela's is listing "real" Inlands for less too. Mind you, one must take what they say with a big grain of salt. I've seen junker M1 Rifles in the Dundee shop at high prices. Still isn't $1100 though. An Auto-Ordnance/Kahr Carbine runs about $850 on Guns International. If you can find a pre-Iver Johnson Plainfield in decent condition and at a price you're willing to pay grab it. I've had mine for 40 + years and haven't had any issue a bath didn't fix. The one 30 round mag needed the lips tweaked open a tick to work properly though. Think Speer 110 grain HP's or SP's and IMR4227. Do not buy any Universal that has a toggle for the bolt hold open and the poorly made, stamped, op handle. Those are the Late models with op handles that tend to break. No issue parts except the mags fit either. Gunparts bought all remaining parts and they're out of stock for the $90 op handles nobody is making. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 25, 2017, 10:11 PM	#6
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	It's one of the best HD firearms around... I have a buttstock pouch with two mags loaded, with commercial softnose ammo. and the fees ramp light ly polished for minimizing feeding problems. Looking for a second for youngest daughter for HD use. Once a yeat clean and lube, as it on syandby.

November 28, 2017, 01:54 PM	#8
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	M1 Carbine Thanks for the post! That was the first rifle I learned on and the post brought back found memories. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

November 25, 2017, 09:51 AM	#2
COSteve Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 1,344	I have a '43 GI NPM I got back in 1974 that's so pristine that it's worth too much to shoot. I really like the M1 Carbine so a few years ago I looked for a shooter. The price for a real GI carbine in any decent shape was over $1,000 (I won't have a beater.) so I looked at the commercial NIB ones. After a review of the offerings, I opted for an Auto Ordnance and I'm really pleased with it. The only mod I made was to remove the flip rear sight and add a Type II adjustable one. It comes with the M2 mag release so it's good with 30rd mags (AIM sells Korean ones that work perfectly.). My AO is considerably more accurate than any GI carbine, including mine with it's pristine barrel. Using my handloads, it is sub 2 MOA all day while a GI carbine is considered really accurate if it's around 3-4 MOA. It's been reliable through over 4,000rds and is just a ton of fun to shoot.

November 25, 2017, 11:09 AM	#4
OldScout Member Join Date: August 1, 2017 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 52	I have had an IBM M1 Carbine for many years. Had to shoot old Army ammo when I could find it for a long time. The commercial Carbine ammo was a great idea. I don't shoot it a lot, just enough to keep it shooting good. Some day it will be passed on to a Son.

November 29, 2017, 10:25 PM	#9
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	The purchase of a non import marked GI Carbine is your best and most expensive option. The Kahr offering and Inland are both well tested and recommended but they too are expensive....abet not quite as expensive as a good condition GI. There is a lot of doom and gloom about these two offerings but. I have shot examples extensively and they work. I am down to about a dozen Carbines from fifty peak, have been collecting them since 1963 with my DCM Inland Div. I shoot all of my Carbines from a late 1942 (very early production) to my Winchester in the six million range, they were made to shoot not hide in a dark safe.

November 30, 2017, 07:19 PM	#10
baddarryl Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2011 Location: Cape Fear! Posts: 1,683	Not to hijack and I hope maybe the OP will benefit from this question. I recently stumble on an IBM carbine that has the old rear site style and no import marks. I don't think the barrel is IBM as we couldn't find markings, but it was darkish and I didn't have my glasses. Overall in good solid condition, good bluing and not a beater, but certainly not a safe queen. The asking price is right around $900 if it is still there. Is there anything to look for that would scare someone away at that price? I don't know much about them, but to me it seems in line with what I have seen out there, maybe even cheap. Thanks.