308 1k yard load

[bacardisteve]

Recently became a member at a 1000yd range. Typically I load 168amax but wanted to see if my 12 twist rem700 would shoot the heavier pills for long range. I have a load worked up as follows
Hornady brass
178gr bthp .530 advertised bc
44.1 gr varget
2610fps 20" tube
My stability factor is 1.37 at 1000ft 39deg will this be enough or am I going to be pissing in the wind trying to hit 1000 with the marginal stability? I worked up to 44.5grs and can hit 2650fps but the groups weren't as tight and I don't think 40fps is gonna make too much difference.

[OzeanJaeger]

You should be fine to 1000 with that load. It's probably not going to be "the best" out of that rifle, but it should run. Obviously you'll get more impacts and more consistently if you were twisting a little faster, but I generally have found that unless it's "unstable" you can expect to get impacts if the rifle will shoot.

I am not on board with the premise though. Yes, a heavier bullet will be less effected by wind, but wind will still effect it. If you are going to be shooting at distances beyond 400 yds you would be better served by developing the best load for that rifle, learning how it shoots through DOPE, and to learning read mirage and wind rather than trying to compensate with a heavier, less stable, and less ideal load. Just my opinion.

The trouble I would have with that approach is that if you're not impacting you are going to wonder if it's the rifle shooting that load, or it's you. Once I've tuned the ammo to the rifle and I know it will shoot and group I know it's all me on impact after impact, or miss after miss. When it's the former there's a skip in my step. When it's the latter I tend to get mopey.

[bacardisteve]

The gun shoots.. the 168 amax has went 3" at 500 and I'm sure could do better with someone more competent behind it. Problem is those loads were built for plinking at 300-600yds so they lack the velocity needed for long range. I have the 178bthp on hand and some 180gr nosler ballistic tips but sadly all out of the 168amax. I'm going to load up 20 of the 178bthp for my next trip out hopefully next week.

[cw308]

barcardisteve
How are you shooting at shorter distances ? 20" heavy barreled Rem 700 in 308 with a 1in 12 twist is a very accurate rifle , I started out with the LTR. Going long the 700 P with a 26" barrel would have been better . I personally like the 20" heavy barrel much better . After 4000+ rounds through the barrel I had a M24 5R rifling with 1 in 11.27 twist 20" barrel installed , completely blueprinted , Jewell trigger set at 10 ounces ,stock bedded. Its my one an only center fire rifle that I never get tired of shooting it . I shoot bench rest only zero 200 yards ,averages 1/2" groups at 200. Never shot it long range.

[T. O'Heir]

It'll be the 20" barrel that gives you grief. 1,000 yard target rifles have longer barrels than hunting rifles. However, the 178's and 175 grain match bullets are made for distances past 600. There are 190 grain match bullets too.
2610 FPS is a tick(10 FPS) higher than the MV of Hornady 178 grain ELD-X match ammo with a 24" barrel. And 80 FPS slower than 175 grain Varget data. You chronograph that? Just curious.
Isn't about the bullet making it to 1,000 though. It's about the wind pushing 'em sideways. You need to learn to read the range flags and the mirage when it gets hot.
Don't worry about stability factors and learn the ballistics of a 178/175 grain bullet.

[hounddawg]

I just ran the numbers for the 178 Hornady ELDX, you would be close at 1000 at around 1300 FPS according to the Hornady ballistics Calculator. if you can get a couple of more .1's of powder in there safely you could probably squeeze another 50 fps. Transsonic is appx 1350 fps

[bacardisteve]

The bullet is not the eldx but the plain old 178gr bthp math from Hornady. 2610fps is from my Caldwell Chrono was very consistent. I've owned this rifle for years but never had a place to stretch it's legs beyond 600yds. It is a rem 700 adl varmint the Barrell was cut back to 20" maybe 5 years ago. The stock is hs precision and it has a timney 3lb trigger. I don't own any other rigs setup right now for 1k untill Kreiger gets me my .30 Cal tube I'm waiting on. That one will be either a 30nosler or 300wsm

[cw308]

Shooting long distances I'm sure is a lot of fun , where I live it would take 4 hours traveling one way to do that. I bought a rifle to do the job in my area and where ranges are 200 yards maximum , not so easy getting tight groups at 200 for me that's hard enough . For me to travel 4 hours to shoot long it would have to be 75 degrees , on wind , overcast sky ,no rain & a flat bed of soft green grass or a well made bench with a adjustable chair. That's not asking for much . Maybe Lunch.. I'll bring the bullets

[AllenJ]

You should be fine at 1000 yards. The Hornady Match 178 is what I shoot out of my 20" tac rifle too, very happy with it. Only problem is I've not gotten to stretch it legs yet over 600 yards.

[hounddawg]

If that is all you have to shoot then by all means shoot and either you will hit it or you won't. Let us know how it works out

[jmr40]

The 20" barrel is plenty long enough for 1000 yards and on paper a 10 twist is better, but the 12 should be fine for bullets under about 200 gr. Two of my 308's have 12 twists, the other a 10. Not a lot of difference in performance.

I've been using a similar hunting load with 178 gr Hornady ELD-X's and 44.5 gr Varget. I don't plan to shoot at 1000, but there is enough speed at the muzzle to do it if I ever try.

My 22" barrels give me 2630 ish which is a little slower than you're getting from a 20" barrel, but that does not surprise me at all. My 18" barrel is about 2580 fps or only 50 fps slower with 4" less barrel. I could get to 1000 with the 18" barrel.

Stay with the heavier bullets. Unless you are willing to work off the charts around 180 gr is probably the practical limit for 308. The heavier 200-230 gr bullets are technically better at 1000+, but the 308 cartridge will struggle to shoot them fast enough to help. There is a guy on another forum using the same rifle you have. A 700 cut down to 20" with a 12 twist. He is shooting 215 gr Bergers a fair bit faster than the book says he should be and has shot out to 1800 yards with it. Even with the 12 twist.

[Stats Shooter]

Some bullets handle the transonic zone better than others. The 168 grain match king doesn't handle it very well but the 175's and 180 grain match kings do.

Some of the 1k yard F/TR guys I shoot with use the 208 gr AMAX/ELD and they are shooting scores of 580+. But with 30" barrels

But, they are running a tighter twist than you.

You might try the 180 grain match king. It doesn't have the BC that the Hornady does, but at 2650 fps and a 1:12 twist it has a stability factor of 1.58. It is a shorter bullet too such that you can seat it more shallow in the case while still feeding from the mag which will add a little more velocity. (Assuming your throat will allow it)

It is only 1.277" long compared to the 1.345" for the hornady BTHP. G1 BC of .496 on the 180 smk, 0.530 for the hornady.

May not seem like much, but 72 thousandths in length is a big difference.

If I were in your shoes, that's what I would try

[bacardisteve]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences with me it's greatly appreciated. Deer rifle season opens up next week hopefully I tag out quickly so I can hit the range. I'm confident my little 308 will get me out to 1000yds may have to play around some with different pills but that's half the fun right. Playing with the stability calculator it looks like my current load has a stability of 1.52 if it's 79d degrees out instead of 39. Who knew after all these years my teachers were correct math does come in handy.

[bacardisteve]

Made it out to the range today. They work! Took almost 3 hrs and 100rds but I have a solid dope chart all the way to 1000yds. Now if I could just learn to read the wind better and time my shots between gusts. Took 35moa from my 100yd zero to hit 1k. Need a better scope too the crosshairs on my 4-16x Weaver are just too thick at distance and more magnification would be nice.

[Road_Clam]

Originally Posted by bacardisteve

Recently became a member at a 1000yd range. Typically I load 168amax but wanted to see if my 12 twist rem700 would shoot the heavier pills for long range. I have a load worked up as follows
Hornady brass
178gr bthp .530 advertised bc
44.1 gr varget
2610fps 20" tube
My stability factor is 1.37 at 1000ft 39deg will this be enough or am I going to be pissing in the wind trying to hit 1000 with the marginal stability? I worked up to 44.5grs and can hit 2650fps but the groups weren't as tight and I don't think 40fps is gonna make too much difference.

I've shot 1K several times and here's my input. Getting a .308 to consistently hit 1K can be done but where you are shooting a heavy 178 gr bullet with a 20" barrel is going to cause some transonic issues depending on the air density. When I was faced with a caliber choice for my maiden 1K shoot, I had 2 choices : My 26" R700 Varmint 1-12", and my R700 26" bbl 300WM 1-10. After crunching numbers with the R700 308 and calculating my accurate load velocities I determined it was too risky with borderline transonic. I chose the 300WM which shot outstanding with the 208 Amax bullet. One of my shoots there was 2 other guys with R700 Tacs and 20" bbls , and they were shooting the FGMM 168 gr ammo and they were shooting well out to 700 yds, but when it came time to hit 1K the accuracy of said rifles got ugly. One shot would ring the 48" gong , the next shot would be a complete miss. There is a reason the .308 Palma guys use the 155 and 30" barrels and it's all about velocity.

[jsflagstad]

Shot at a 1000 yard clinic a while back and it was a lot of fun and I learned a ton. I used my Tikka T3 Lite 7mm-08 with a Nikon 3-9x and it performed VERY well producing a 10 inch 5 shot group at the 1000 yard distance. I shot a 140 grn BT over Varget at a MV of 2800 and the bullets were going transonic just prior to impact, so a touch more "gitty up" may certainly help. I was really amazed at how quickly the 140grn bullet lost velocity though.

I am glad I took the opportunity because like I said, I learned a lot and it made me a much better shooter. It is very amazing how small that big target looks in a 9x scope!