Muzzle flash computer generated digitally on TV shows

Oldjarhead · May 20, 2017, 08:41 PM

Has anyone noticed on crime TV shows like Person of Interest, and Hawaii Five 0, that it appears gunfire muzzle flashes seem to being digitally produced by computer on film. Fake blood spatter as well. I know this, because I have carefully observed when TV shows have someone firing a semiautomatic handgun, I see muzzle flashes, but no slide movement at all. No cycling another round. The only exception is during close ups.

Does anyone have any inside information on this? Just curious. Seems to make sense. Saves time, and makes the gunshot scenes easier to film, I expect.

TruthTellers · May 20, 2017, 09:05 PM

I read that the CGI muzzle flashes are used in place of blanks to cut down on noise and scare people into thinking an actual shooting is happening.

Yeah, it looks dumb because nothing moves, the slide doesn't move, there's no recoil. I remember watching a movie with Dwayne Johnson, the future President of the United States, where he uses a Ruger Alaskan with .454 Casull ammo and it never recoils when he shoots it.

Berserker · May 20, 2017, 09:19 PM

I assume all blood splatters are fake.

10-96 · May 20, 2017, 11:30 PM

Quote:

I assume all blood splatters are fake.

Lol, you never watched me work on my Jeep! Great 37 year old hunting wagon, but dang does it ever keep my skin well ventilated!

dakota.potts · May 21, 2017, 12:33 AM

I watched a low budget zombie film once where I noticed some of the shooting frames were kind of wonky. The character was in a dark sewer system shooting an MP5 but there seemed to be a kind of "twitch". I slowed it down and played it, and every muzzle flash for the MP5 was a very short frame of a person shooting an AR15 outdoors with the camera focused on the muzzle.

I guess that was cheaper than paying somebody to digitally input flash and noise.

kozak6 · May 21, 2017, 04:50 AM

Yeah, it's probably much cheaper and safer to use airsoft or rubber guns and add effects in post production.

I recall a Syfy Channel movie that used spray painted Nerf guns!

Quote:

I assume all blood splatters are fake.

You ever watch Eagleheart

?

**Aguila Blanca** · May 21, 2017, 09:37 AM

Even airsofts cycle the slide ...

Berserker · May 21, 2017, 10:23 AM

"Lol, you never watched me work on my Jeep! Great 37 year old hunting wagon, but dang does it ever keep my skin well ventilated!"

Are you on TV?

tipoc · May 21, 2017, 10:53 AM

Yeah they've been doing both for a few years now. in a number of TV shows and made for TV movies. That's where it began and looked exceedingly fake at first. At times the flash comes from an couple of inches away from the muzzle. It saves them money, time and hassle from neighbors. Blanks can be troublesome as well (remember Brandon Lee).

The fake CGI blood is obvious as well. That also saves time. It takes too many takes to get the blood spatter shot out of a squeeze bottle to hit just right or fly through the air in a perfect arc. But CGI and a kid can do it in a couple of minutes. How else they gonna get Tara Reid to chainsaw ten sharks flying through the air?

They coming out with a new version of The Mummy. It'll be all GCI. Makes me miss Boris Karloff in the original.

tipoc

Berserker · May 21, 2017, 10:55 AM

I pick up apart TV, but blood splatter has never concerned me. I always understood TV is fake and people are not getting shot.

JoeSixpack · May 22, 2017, 04:55 PM

It's true, they'll use rubber guns or more commonly airsoft.
It looks incredibly fake.

the walking dead has been known to cheap out alot.. don't recall the season number where they're at the prison but you could actually see them shooting revolvers where the cylinder never moved.

It's also pretty obvious when they do the cheesy "Hollywood recoil" acting.

Back before they had CGI to try to add this stuff in they use other methods.
According to the Day of the Dead commentary track they use propane based prop guns to produce a muzzle flash more reliably.

Apparently since most film is shot at like 24 Or is it 25 fps?
even on automatic fire with real weapons they might only get a muzzle flash like every 3rd or 4th shot on film.
The lay audience expects muzzle flash I guess.

Some might say the move to post effects was about being safer..
But Im fairly certain in most instances it's a cost saving exercise.
You can get a lot more airsoft guns than real ones, not to mention the ammo.

Unfortunately it really cheapens the already budget strapped movies imo.
especially since they usually don't CGI in things like slide or cylinder movement and ejected brass.

It's fine for amateur movies or youtube video's but has no business in a serious film it never looks right.

Berserker · May 22, 2017, 08:35 PM

This is what bother you? Not why would anyone do this or that. But zombie killing doesn't look real to you (

CalmerThanYou · May 22, 2017, 08:43 PM

For what I pay for cable each month, I expect real blood.

Berserker · May 23, 2017, 02:12 PM

Ok, I just got an antenna, which is why I am not picky.

carguychris · May 23, 2017, 06:17 PM

Advantages to using fake guns and CGI muzzle flash:

No need for costly armorers on-set
No need to carefully supervise cast and crew members with felony records (e.g. Mark Wahlberg, Danny Trejo, Snoop Dogg)
Reduced safety risks (Google Jon-Erik Hexum and Brandon Lee)
No blanks consumed = lower cost
Rare and/or historic firearms are more easily obtained because non-firing replicas or deactivated wallhangers can be used, and there are no problems obtaining oddball-caliber blanks
Fantastical imaginary prop guns don't have to be built around "real" functional actions in order to fire
Filming is less disruptive in populated areas
Easier to arrange permission to film in locales with strict gun-control laws
No coordination problems, such as timing the gunfire and the bullet-impact squibs to match one another
[EDIT TO ADD] No issues with obvious flinching by actors (e.g. Gert Fröbe in Goldfinger)

(Partially cribbed from an earlier post of mine

)

JoeSixpack · May 23, 2017, 09:15 PM

disadvantages:

almost always easily spotted as CGI. cheezy

jackstrawIII · May 24, 2017, 08:52 AM

Quote:

I remember watching a movie with Dwayne Johnson, the future President of the United States

Hahahahaha, nice!

carguychris · May 24, 2017, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeSixpack

almost always easily spotted as CGI. cheezy

Not necessarily; it depends how good the actor is at faking recoil, and how much time the producers are willing to spend in post-production. A lot of low-budget and time-critical productions (i.e. direct-to-video movies and TV shows) have easily spotted CGI; major studio movies, less so.

One certain disadvantage is that the actors need to be taught to feign the effects of recoil.

TRX · May 24, 2017, 08:08 PM

> Dwayne Johnson, the future President of the United States

Dwayne who?

Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho has dibs, I think...

May 20, 2017, 08:41 PM	#1
Oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2008 Posts: 508	Muzzle flash computer generated digitally on TV shows Has anyone noticed on crime TV shows like Person of Interest, and Hawaii Five 0, that it appears gunfire muzzle flashes seem to being digitally produced by computer on film. Fake blood spatter as well. I know this, because I have carefully observed when TV shows have someone firing a semiautomatic handgun, I see muzzle flashes, but no slide movement at all. No cycling another round. The only exception is during close ups. Does anyone have any inside information on this? Just curious. Seems to make sense. Saves time, and makes the gunshot scenes easier to film, I expect.

May 20, 2017, 09:05 PM	#2
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	I read that the CGI muzzle flashes are used in place of blanks to cut down on noise and scare people into thinking an actual shooting is happening. Yeah, it looks dumb because nothing moves, the slide doesn't move, there's no recoil. I remember watching a movie with Dwayne Johnson, the future President of the United States, where he uses a Ruger Alaskan with .454 Casull ammo and it never recoils when he shoots it. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

May 21, 2017, 12:33 AM	#5
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	I watched a low budget zombie film once where I noticed some of the shooting frames were kind of wonky. The character was in a dark sewer system shooting an MP5 but there seemed to be a kind of "twitch". I slowed it down and played it, and every muzzle flash for the MP5 was a very short frame of a person shooting an AR15 outdoors with the camera focused on the muzzle. I guess that was cheaper than paying somebody to digitally input flash and noise. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

May 23, 2017, 06:17 PM	#15
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	Advantages to using fake guns and CGI muzzle flash: No need for costly armorers on-set No need to carefully supervise cast and crew members with felony records (e.g. Mark Wahlberg, Danny Trejo, Snoop Dogg) Reduced safety risks (Google Jon-Erik Hexum and Brandon Lee) No blanks consumed = lower cost Rare and/or historic firearms are more easily obtained because non-firing replicas or deactivated wallhangers can be used, and there are no problems obtaining oddball-caliber blanks Fantastical imaginary prop guns don't have to be built around "real" functional actions in order to fire Filming is less disruptive in populated areas Easier to arrange permission to film in locales with strict gun-control laws No coordination problems, such as timing the gunfire and the bullet-impact squibs to match one another [EDIT TO ADD] No issues with obvious flinching by actors (e.g. Gert Fröbe in Goldfinger) (Partially cribbed from an earlier post of mine ) __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak Last edited by carguychris; May 24, 2017 at 10:05 AM. Reason: reword, stuff added

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May 20, 2017, 09:19 PM	#3
Berserker Junior member Join Date: April 6, 2015 Location: WI & UP Posts: 284	I assume all blood splatters are fake.

May 21, 2017, 09:37 AM	#7
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,458	Even airsofts cycle the slide ...

May 21, 2017, 10:23 AM	#8
Berserker Junior member Join Date: April 6, 2015 Location: WI & UP Posts: 284	"Lol, you never watched me work on my Jeep! Great 37 year old hunting wagon, but dang does it ever keep my skin well ventilated!" Are you on TV?

May 21, 2017, 10:53 AM	#9
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Yeah they've been doing both for a few years now. in a number of TV shows and made for TV movies. That's where it began and looked exceedingly fake at first. At times the flash comes from an couple of inches away from the muzzle. It saves them money, time and hassle from neighbors. Blanks can be troublesome as well (remember Brandon Lee). The fake CGI blood is obvious as well. That also saves time. It takes too many takes to get the blood spatter shot out of a squeeze bottle to hit just right or fly through the air in a perfect arc. But CGI and a kid can do it in a couple of minutes. How else they gonna get Tara Reid to chainsaw ten sharks flying through the air? They coming out with a new version of The Mummy. It'll be all GCI. Makes me miss Boris Karloff in the original. tipoc

May 21, 2017, 10:55 AM	#10
Berserker Junior member Join Date: April 6, 2015 Location: WI & UP Posts: 284	I pick up apart TV, but blood splatter has never concerned me. I always understood TV is fake and people are not getting shot.

May 22, 2017, 04:55 PM	#11
JoeSixpack Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2017 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,048	It's true, they'll use rubber guns or more commonly airsoft. It looks incredibly fake. the walking dead has been known to cheap out alot.. don't recall the season number where they're at the prison but you could actually see them shooting revolvers where the cylinder never moved. It's also pretty obvious when they do the cheesy "Hollywood recoil" acting. Back before they had CGI to try to add this stuff in they use other methods. According to the Day of the Dead commentary track they use propane based prop guns to produce a muzzle flash more reliably. Apparently since most film is shot at like 24 Or is it 25 fps? even on automatic fire with real weapons they might only get a muzzle flash like every 3rd or 4th shot on film. The lay audience expects muzzle flash I guess. Some might say the move to post effects was about being safer.. But Im fairly certain in most instances it's a cost saving exercise. You can get a lot more airsoft guns than real ones, not to mention the ammo. Unfortunately it really cheapens the already budget strapped movies imo. especially since they usually don't CGI in things like slide or cylinder movement and ejected brass. It's fine for amateur movies or youtube video's but has no business in a serious film it never looks right.

May 22, 2017, 08:35 PM	#12
Berserker Junior member Join Date: April 6, 2015 Location: WI & UP Posts: 284	This is what bother you? Not why would anyone do this or that. But zombie killing doesn't look real to you (

May 22, 2017, 08:43 PM	#13
CalmerThanYou Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2017 Posts: 323	For what I pay for cable each month, I expect real blood.

May 23, 2017, 02:12 PM	#14
Berserker Junior member Join Date: April 6, 2015 Location: WI & UP Posts: 284	Ok, I just got an antenna, which is why I am not picky.

May 23, 2017, 09:15 PM	#16
JoeSixpack Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2017 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,048	disadvantages: almost always easily spotted as CGI. cheezy

May 24, 2017, 08:08 PM	#19
TRX Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2008 Location: central Arkansas Posts: 400	> Dwayne Johnson, the future President of the United States Dwayne who? Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho has dibs, I think...