44mag nylon bullets at 3000fps??

TABING · December 28, 2000, 09:00 AM

Just finished John Ross' "Unintended Consequences" where the hero uses a piece of
nylon stock as a .44 mag. bullet over a "case full Of Bullseye" to get a velocity of
3000 fps. Now all gun related stuff in this book seems to be correct, but I wonder
about this. Nylon bullets, no problem, but a case full of BE and 3000fps, is it
possible?

bk40 · December 28, 2000, 03:45 PM

sure it can be done.... can you say death and dismemberment... sure you can.

the mother of all KaBooms!

well, maybe it depended on how much crimp was applied

WESHOOT2, we need an expert here!

Southla1 · December 28, 2000, 05:20 PM

A full case of Bullseye? Even with something as light as a nylon bullet that seems a lot! I would stay away from it if I were you.

slickpuppy · December 29, 2000, 01:34 AM

What kind of chisel would be appropriate to remove the melted plastic from the bore?

Quantrill · December 29, 2000, 08:15 AM

Sounds like a recipe for disaster! Quantrill

sw627pc · December 29, 2000, 09:55 AM

slickpuppy,

Using industrial grade nylon I wouldn't worry about melted plastic in the bore. This stuff is pretty tuff. I assume that the piece of nylon would be loaded similar to a wadcutter (flush with the case mouth and crimped over the end) as trying to crimp a hard, springy, and self lubricating material in the middle sounds rather self defeating. In this case a "full case of bullseys" might not really be a full to the brim case but rather enough to fill whatever case volume wasn't already used by the projectile. I don't think I want to try it, but suspect it would work. Of course you have a ballistic co-efficient of 0 and anything past point blank (or maybe even contact) range would be a waste of time.

TABING · December 29, 2000, 12:31 PM

Wasn't planning to try it, just wanted your thoughts on its possiblity.
In the novel he put it through the enemies eyesocket at about 4 feet, inside an airplane, I guess that's why he used a soft projectile rather than a more conventional one.

BTW, this book is a must read for firearms enthusiasts.

KP95DAO · December 30, 2000, 02:58 AM

Your question made me dig out some of my old data. I have shot just about everything there is to shoot out of a 44 Mag. Some years ago I made up a load consisting of a W-W case, WLP primer, a bullet which was a C&J short jacket ( for swaged bullet making) that was formed into a swc and filled with hot glue. The bullet weight was 57 grains. The powder consisted of a blend of 5 grains of AA5 and 27 grains of AA7. For a total of 32 grains. This resulted in the bullet cronographing at an average of 3255 fps with a high of 3290 and a low of 3218. This was near the max pressure level in the 10&1/2 inch Ruger SBH it was fired in. To say that he used a solid piece of nylon in the hope that it would not penetrate an airplane fuselage at that velocity is wishful thinking on the author's part. As we all know the key to penetration of anything is the ability to impart sufficient amount of force in the shortest amount of time.

WESHOOT2 · December 30, 2000, 07:42 AM

Don't like plastic (got 1800fps with a 300g LFP in my 5.5" Redhawk, though. But only one time, then I needed a big hammer...)

Airplanes are already full of holes; doesn't matter if a bullet (or two) makes one more. Really.

dundee · December 31, 2000, 11:27 PM

several years ago there was an article "loading for vampires" the author used wood dowels cut into the proper length and in some cases turned on his lathe to load his .44
I don't remember the powder used but he did get velocities above 3000 fps. I don't remember what accuracy he got but they did interesting things to watermelon type targets.

Bogie · January 2, 2001, 01:53 PM

You know, I really need to nag John to get on this board...

Matt VDW · January 2, 2001, 03:09 PM

Quote:

To say that he used a solid piece of nylon in the hope that it would not penetrate an airplane fuselage at that velocity is wishful thinking on the author's part. As we all know the key to penetration of anything is the ability to impart sufficient amount of force in the shortest amount of time.

I think the theory was that the lightweight bullet would lose all of its energy in the bad guy and not over-penetrate. Of course, a miss would be a different story... but in that case any effective bullet would puncture the plane's fuselage anyway.

B9mmHP · January 2, 2001, 04:16 PM

TABING
It may be that it is possible, I just looked at my reloading manual. 44mag 200 GR. with 27.0 grains IMR 4227, muzzle velocity 1461. 225 GR. with 25.0 grains IMR 4227, muzzle velosity 1432. 240 GR. with 24.0 grains IMR 4227, muzzle velosity 1312.
So I ass/u/me that the lighter the bullet the more powder you can use without excessive pressure build up, so something as light as plastic would not cause excess presure. But I dont think I would care to try it.

Good Guy · January 2, 2001, 10:46 PM

Quote:

several years ago there was an article "loading for vampires" the author used wood dowels cut into the proper length and in some cases turned on his lathe to load his .44
I don't remember the powder used but he did get velocities above 3000 fps. I don't remember what accuracy he got but they did interesting things to watermelon type targets.

I recall reading an article in the American Rifleman on wooden bullets in handguns. Seem to remember 1800-2000 fps from a 38 snub!, among other calibers & loads. The author was looking for the ultimate "safe" defense load inside the home. From what I remember, effective range for his wooden wonders was 0-10 feet, since the velocity fell off dramatically as soon as wooden slug left the bore. Wish I saved the magazine article, but I recycle all my gun rags every few years to new/junior shooters.

Johnny Guest · January 5, 2001, 01:16 AM

Y'all are beginning to interest me, here - - - -

I haven't loaded anything but .45 ACP for some months now, but I'm beginning to think about firing up my old single-stage press. Need to take a run down to the big hardware store and see what kinda nylon stock they have on hand.

Johnny

Southla1 · January 5, 2001, 11:57 AM

Johnny, I have a question. If that nylon leaves a residue in your bore is that called nyloning, or is it still leading?

Johnny Guest · January 6, 2001, 03:24 PM

Excellent question, Car---One worthy of a learned discussion. Now, where are the learned ones?

I nominate "NYLODING" as the proper term. Any other suggestions? Let's break some new semantic ground here, friends..

But if you don't want to participate, don't make fun of those who do. I guess I'm saying - - -
Please, no anti-semantic remarks.

Best,
Johnny

December 28, 2000, 03:45 PM	#2
bk40 Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 1999 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,004	case full of Bullseye in a .44 mag? sure it can be done.... can you say death and dismemberment... sure you can. the mother of all KaBooms! well, maybe it depended on how much crimp was applied WESHOOT2, we need an expert here!

December 29, 2000, 08:15 AM	#5
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	Case full of Bullseye Sounds like a recipe for disaster! Quantrill

December 29, 2000, 09:55 AM	#6
sw627pc Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2000 Posts: 453	slickpuppy, Using industrial grade nylon I wouldn't worry about melted plastic in the bore. This stuff is pretty tuff. I assume that the piece of nylon would be loaded similar to a wadcutter (flush with the case mouth and crimped over the end) as trying to crimp a hard, springy, and self lubricating material in the middle sounds rather self defeating. In this case a "full case of bullseys" might not really be a full to the brim case but rather enough to fill whatever case volume wasn't already used by the projectile. I don't think I want to try it, but suspect it would work. Of course you have a ballistic co-efficient of 0 and anything past point blank (or maybe even contact) range would be a waste of time. __________________ Bob C. NRA Patron USN (Ret)

December 30, 2000, 02:58 AM	#8
KP95DAO Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2000 Posts: 699	High velocity 44 Mag rds. Your question made me dig out some of my old data. I have shot just about everything there is to shoot out of a 44 Mag. Some years ago I made up a load consisting of a W-W case, WLP primer, a bullet which was a C&J short jacket ( for swaged bullet making) that was formed into a swc and filled with hot glue. The bullet weight was 57 grains. The powder consisted of a blend of 5 grains of AA5 and 27 grains of AA7. For a total of 32 grains. This resulted in the bullet cronographing at an average of 3255 fps with a high of 3290 and a low of 3218. This was near the max pressure level in the 10&1/2 inch Ruger SBH it was fired in. To say that he used a solid piece of nylon in the hope that it would not penetrate an airplane fuselage at that velocity is wishful thinking on the author's part. As we all know the key to penetration of anything is the ability to impart sufficient amount of force in the shortest amount of time.

December 30, 2000, 07:42 AM	#9
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Don't like plastic (got 1800fps with a 300g LFP in my 5.5" Redhawk, though. But only one time, then I needed a big hammer...) Airplanes are already full of holes; doesn't matter if a bullet (or two) makes one more. Really. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

December 28, 2000, 09:00 AM	#1
TABING Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: White Mountains, AZ & Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates Posts: 663	Just finished John Ross' "Unintended Consequences" where the hero uses a piece of nylon stock as a .44 mag. bullet over a "case full Of Bullseye" to get a velocity of 3000 fps. Now all gun related stuff in this book seems to be correct, but I wonder about this. Nylon bullets, no problem, but a case full of BE and 3000fps, is it possible?

December 28, 2000, 05:20 PM	#3
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	A full case of Bullseye? Even with something as light as a nylon bullet that seems a lot! I would stay away from it if I were you.

December 29, 2000, 01:34 AM	#4
slickpuppy Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 1999 Posts: 928	What kind of chisel would be appropriate to remove the melted plastic from the bore?

December 29, 2000, 12:31 PM	#7
TABING Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: White Mountains, AZ & Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates Posts: 663	Wasn't planning to try it, just wanted your thoughts on its possiblity. In the novel he put it through the enemies eyesocket at about 4 feet, inside an airplane, I guess that's why he used a soft projectile rather than a more conventional one. BTW, this book is a must read for firearms enthusiasts.

December 31, 2000, 11:27 PM	#10
dundee Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1998 Location: mytown,mi,usa Posts: 162	several years ago there was an article "loading for vampires" the author used wood dowels cut into the proper length and in some cases turned on his lathe to load his .44 I don't remember the powder used but he did get velocities above 3000 fps. I don't remember what accuracy he got but they did interesting things to watermelon type targets.

January 2, 2001, 01:53 PM	#11
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	You know, I really need to nag John to get on this board...

January 2, 2001, 04:16 PM	#13
B9mmHP Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 465	TABING It may be that it is possible, I just looked at my reloading manual. 44mag 200 GR. with 27.0 grains IMR 4227, muzzle velocity 1461. 225 GR. with 25.0 grains IMR 4227, muzzle velosity 1432. 240 GR. with 24.0 grains IMR 4227, muzzle velosity 1312. So I ass/u/me that the lighter the bullet the more powder you can use without excessive pressure build up, so something as light as plastic would not cause excess presure. But I dont think I would care to try it. __________________ Stupidity Strange as it may seem, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. " Stephen Vizinczey "

January 5, 2001, 01:16 AM	#15
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Intriguing possibilities - - - Y'all are beginning to interest me, here - - - - I haven't loaded anything but .45 ACP for some months now, but I'm beginning to think about firing up my old single-stage press. Need to take a run down to the big hardware store and see what kinda nylon stock they have on hand. Johnny

January 5, 2001, 11:57 AM	#16
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	Johnny, I have a question. If that nylon leaves a residue in your bore is that called nyloning, or is it still leading?

January 6, 2001, 03:24 PM	#17
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Nylon barrel deposits Excellent question, Car---One worthy of a learned discussion. Now, where are the learned ones? I nominate "NYLODING" as the proper term. Any other suggestions? Let's break some new semantic ground here, friends.. But if you don't want to participate, don't make fun of those who do. I guess I'm saying - - - Please, no anti-semantic remarks. Best, Johnny