I'm new to Glocks, but... is that normal? (A Magazine Change Issue)

Departed402 · August 30, 2011, 10:32 PM

I have finally joined the law enforcement community, and as expected, “the Kool-Aid” was forced down my throat. Actually I’ve enjoyed the very short time that I’ve had my Glock 21 (.45ACP). The reason I’m making this thread is due to an issue I had this evening when I was shooting. I’ll go ahead and put the issue in capital letters so if you know the answer to my question you can answer immediately. If you need more information I’ll post everything below the main question so you guys can look at the whole story.

ONCE I EMPTIED A MAGAZINE AND SLAMMED A LOADED ONE IN FAIRLY HARD, THE SLIDE WENT FORWARD BY ITSELF WITHOUT ME ACTUATING THE SLIDE-RELEASE LEVER. SO, IS THAT NORMAL?

Alright, if it’s not normal please keep reading, and I’ll provide additional information to help solve the mystery. The Glock 21 I was issued was sitting in a cabinet. I have no idea how long it had been there, or how long it had been since it had been cleaned. It is outfitted with an M3 Illuminator, and Hogue sleeve on the grip. I will note that the lens on the illuminator was clean when I first got it, which may be an indication to its cleanliness. Anyway after getting the gun we went to the range, where I put about 75 rounds of Winchester range bullets through it. I don’t recall the slide going forward by itself during my time at the range, maybe it did it once or twice. From there my sergeant gave me about 75 more Winchester range bullets, and said, if I wanted to, between that night (last Tuesday), and next week when I start (this Thursday) to go ahead and get accustomed to the trigger reset.

Since I expect to shoot the gun within the next week or so and because it’s a Glock, I figured it would be fine if I didn’t clean it until after I spent the other 75 rounds.

So tonight, I went shooting on my uncle’s land. When I spent the last round in a magazine the slide locked back as you would expect, but when I slammed a new mag magazine in, the slide went forward without me actuating the slide-release. I will say that I was slamming them in fairly hard, if that matters. There were a couple times where it didn’t go forward by itself, and I released it manually with the slide-release lever.

So after that I took it home and cleaned it. I decided to experiment with it some more. I’ve noticed that it only seems to do that when I slam a loaded magazine in the gun rather hard. If I do it gently it doesn’t do it. Again, is that normal?

Tactical Jackalope · August 30, 2011, 10:38 PM

Why are you slamming in the magazine for? Like are you doing it that hard? Cause yes actually..not just with Glock I don't think. But any gun...wait...let me go slap my guns. Seriously. One second. I have a Glock 21st and 22 and 27 if they do it I'm going to do the same to my SIG and XD...One sec.

Departed402 · August 30, 2011, 10:41 PM

I'm not slamming them in with the intent to hurt anything, I'm just trying to reload quickly.

Glockfan36 · August 30, 2011, 10:42 PM

I would take it to your agency's armorer or to a Glock-certified gunsmith to be safe. You could also have it sent back to Glock for service. Hope this helps!

Tactical Jackalope · August 30, 2011, 10:43 PM

Whoa man...Just did it. Mine did the same damn thing. I was a little uneasy. Felt like it was going to shoot the round it chambered.....Let me try the SIG now.

No I know, you weren't.

mezzkat · August 30, 2011, 10:45 PM

Sure. It's a simple matter of inertia. It actually would have made a good Mr. Wizard segment. When you slam a magazine hard into the weapon you are actually causing the weapon to move upward quite rapidly. Inertia keeps the slide release in the same place, effectively dropping it. You don't need to slam mags in that hard. And you shouldn't be trying to make that happen. But if you practice enough, you can use that to increase your speed to the shot after a reload when it happens. Just don't count on it happening. Make sure you practice proper reloads, but adjust to the situation to take advantage of it when it does happen.

Tactical Jackalope · August 30, 2011, 10:45 PM

Ok... my SIG did not. Just the Glocks did.

I don't know. But I kind of see that as a good thing. For the stressful situations of a gun fight. Never slammed them in that hard even stressed.

I'm waiting here with you for someone to explain that.

My Glocks did the same thing.

P11100010 · August 30, 2011, 11:15 PM

An instructor at a NRA home protection course was showing that trick. Called it speed loading. According to the instructor it only works with Glock and requires slapping the mag in. Only saves the motion of releasing the slide. Don't think I would use unless actively engaged.

NVBigEd · August 30, 2011, 11:27 PM

Some do, some don't. If you are using good habits during your reload, auto release shouldn't be a problem. Competitive shooters actively look for examples that do "do" that. Neither of my Glocks perform in that way, but I have several friends that theirs do.

Just work on your technique to develop a procedure to insure it does reset into battery after the new magazine is inserted. One of my friends lost a match because he was expecting his gun to "auto release" in a timed reload session and when it failed to release upon insertion, he seemed to lock up for 2 or 3 seconds trying to process what to do. It cost him the stage, but it could cost you much more.

safe cracker · August 30, 2011, 11:46 PM

most glocks do it, it works better if ur holding the gun flat and not in the shooting pos. even then its not a 100%.

Departed402 · August 30, 2011, 11:48 PM

So is it as Mezzkat suggested, and it's the inertia that's causing it to happen?

In any case, it's comforting to know I'm not alone with this issue. I'm glad I'm aware of it now rather than finding out during a life or death situation. It's just something I'll have to train with, and be wary of.

NVBigEd · August 30, 2011, 11:59 PM

Here's a thread from a few days ago about this on another forum, specific to Glocks....

http://glock.pro/showthread.php/3409...o-release-quot

Kimbertron · August 31, 2011, 12:00 AM

I was curious after i read this and tried it with my G17, I wasn't able to make the slide release no matter how hard i slammed it. I was in doors and not in a safe shooting area so i was using an unloaded magazine so i don't know if that makes a difference. Im also rather small so maybe i just couldn't do it haha. Mine has about 3500-4000 rounds throught it so now new but not completely worn in i think.

safe cracker · August 31, 2011, 12:34 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fZUG...yer_detailpage

safe cracker · August 31, 2011, 12:37 AM

phatspeed7x · August 31, 2011, 12:58 AM

Testing this with a unloaded mag is pointless because the slide lock will always be in the locked position...

I do not recommend testing this theory indoors, just incase the gun does decide to go off.

This is interesting read. I would get that gun checkout asap.....

mezzkat · August 31, 2011, 06:33 AM

Joneeman, if you watched the video that safecracker posted, you may notice a few things.

First, he was using live ammo. He should have used snap caps or dummunition to make a video, but real point is that it will not work with an empty mag because the empty mag's follower will keep the slide release up.

Second, you CAN do it with any semi auto pistol that uses that basic slide release design.

Third, he bumped the magazine by hitting the base plate while the pistol was still. It's that rapid acceleration of the pistol that's required to move it independent of the slide release. Try keeping your support hand still and slamming the pistol onto your support hand, it won't go into battery because you can't decelerate the pistol hard enough so that the pistol stops but the slide release keeps moving. That's how you can prove to yourself that it's just inertia at play.

Fourth, he didn't engage the safety on the 1911 after making it ready. He should have done that.

Bottom line is there is nothing wrong with your weapon. However, I bet you're bringing it in closer to your body when you reload. Keep it out and up in your line of sight to the target when reloading. It probably won't go into battery because you can't slam the mag hard enough with nearly straight arms. You'll also be able to keep the threat in your line of sight while reloading. You don't want to be looking down during a reload.

new_scopeshooter · August 31, 2011, 06:46 AM

One way to test this would be to load the mag with dummy rounds so there is no chance of a live round being sent down the hallway!

moose_nukelz · August 31, 2011, 07:11 AM

Some will, some won't. We are issued Beretta's at work and when I reload I train to do it so the slide goes home because for me it is less movement to get the gun running again. My Glock 23 does it rarely so I don't even try anymore, I put in the magazine and hit the slide release and go. My M&P will release the slide but not as easily as the Beretta but it is also a week old and only has approximately 500 rounds through it. On my M&P, the slide release is very difficult to operate because of the angles of the cut and the gun being new, so I am training to powerstroke the slide if it does not go into battery on it's own. Find something that works for you and your gun(s) and do train on all of them that way so you don't have to think about it under stress.

Uncle Malice · August 31, 2011, 08:00 AM

I've never been able to get any of my 16 Glocks to do this... I'm surprised how many people get this to work.

On the contrary, every HK that I have owned do this easily and actually quite reliably, although I never make a habit out of it.

Jim Watson · August 31, 2011, 08:26 AM

As said, very common with Glocks, possible with others... my Plastic M&P does so.

A lot of IDPA shooters come to depend on it for a quicker reload from slide lock. If the slide closes before the top round is presented to the chamber, then the reload is not so quick, but that is uncommon enough to take the chance.

Walt Sherrill · August 31, 2011, 09:56 AM

What Jim said.

When I was shooting in IDPA more regularly, I really WANTED this to happen with all of my guns, not just my Glocks. Only the Glocks could be counted on to do it. Some IPSC/USPSA shooters tweak their guns so that this is a reliable trait on their non-Glock guns.

I don't view it as a safety issue, but as is the case with Microsoft, an "undocumented feature" that really is good (rather than bad, as is usually the case with computer programs.

I've also never had it cause a problem (i.e., not chamber a round properly) in a match...

Timbow · August 31, 2011, 10:15 AM

I'm an instructor for our dept. and I've seen it happen numerous times on the range as well as had it happen numerous times on my issued G22. Like you noticed, the mag has to be seated with significant force to make it happen and mine has never done it reliably enough to even consider relying on it in a defensive situation. Don't worry about seating a mag too hard, you should be training to seat the mag with some authority to make sure it locks in, especially with fully loaded new mags. I've seen way more problems with mags falling back out of guns than slides going forward on their own. My instructor back in the academy told us about our Glocks, "If you are able to break that damn thing I'll personally buy you a new one". To my knowledge he never took his checkbook out.

Shadi Khalil · August 31, 2011, 10:24 AM

It's happened from time to with alot of the autos I've owned. Now if the slide won't lock back on the last round, something is wrong... There is nothing wrong with a bit of force when loading a mag up, I was actually taught to do it that way. However, there is no need to go overboard with, just make sure it's in there.

Sent via Android

Tactical Jackalope · September 1, 2011, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadi Khalil

Now if the slide won't lock back on the last round, something is wrong..

Well then....My SIG has not locked back several times already. I have 2,000 rounds through it. Last range trip it happened once. Before that twice. And....weird...I think its a magazine.

But what else could it be?

SA 1911 - XD45 - G21sf - G22 - G27 - Hk USP 40 - SIG P226 E2 - Browning High-Power - S&W M19-3 - CZ-82 - Remington 870

August 30, 2011, 10:32 PM	#1
Departed402 Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 884	I'm new to Glocks, but... is that normal? (A Magazine Change Issue) I have finally joined the law enforcement community, and as expected, “the Kool-Aid” was forced down my throat. Actually I’ve enjoyed the very short time that I’ve had my Glock 21 (.45ACP). The reason I’m making this thread is due to an issue I had this evening when I was shooting. I’ll go ahead and put the issue in capital letters so if you know the answer to my question you can answer immediately. If you need more information I’ll post everything below the main question so you guys can look at the whole story. ONCE I EMPTIED A MAGAZINE AND SLAMMED A LOADED ONE IN FAIRLY HARD, THE SLIDE WENT FORWARD BY ITSELF WITHOUT ME ACTUATING THE SLIDE-RELEASE LEVER. SO, IS THAT NORMAL? Alright, if it’s not normal please keep reading, and I’ll provide additional information to help solve the mystery. The Glock 21 I was issued was sitting in a cabinet. I have no idea how long it had been there, or how long it had been since it had been cleaned. It is outfitted with an M3 Illuminator, and Hogue sleeve on the grip. I will note that the lens on the illuminator was clean when I first got it, which may be an indication to its cleanliness. Anyway after getting the gun we went to the range, where I put about 75 rounds of Winchester range bullets through it. I don’t recall the slide going forward by itself during my time at the range, maybe it did it once or twice. From there my sergeant gave me about 75 more Winchester range bullets, and said, if I wanted to, between that night (last Tuesday), and next week when I start (this Thursday) to go ahead and get accustomed to the trigger reset. Since I expect to shoot the gun within the next week or so and because it’s a Glock, I figured it would be fine if I didn’t clean it until after I spent the other 75 rounds. So tonight, I went shooting on my uncle’s land. When I spent the last round in a magazine the slide locked back as you would expect, but when I slammed a new mag magazine in, the slide went forward without me actuating the slide-release. I will say that I was slamming them in fairly hard, if that matters. There were a couple times where it didn’t go forward by itself, and I released it manually with the slide-release lever. So after that I took it home and cleaned it. I decided to experiment with it some more. I’ve noticed that it only seems to do that when I slam a loaded magazine in the gun rather hard. If I do it gently it doesn’t do it. Again, is that normal? __________________ Slow is Smooth. Smooth is Fast. Last edited by Departed402; August 30, 2011 at 11:42 PM.

August 30, 2011, 10:41 PM	#3
Departed402 Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 884	I'm not slamming them in with the intent to hurt anything, I'm just trying to reload quickly. __________________ Slow is Smooth. Smooth is Fast.

August 30, 2011, 10:42 PM	#4
Glockfan36 Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2011 Location: Kentucky Posts: 216	If I were you I would take it to your agency's armorer or to a Glock-certified gunsmith to be safe. You could also have it sent back to Glock for service. Hope this helps! __________________ Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall!- Ronald Reagan

August 30, 2011, 10:45 PM	#6
mezzkat Member Join Date: August 30, 2011 Posts: 22	Happens all the time Sure. It's a simple matter of inertia. It actually would have made a good Mr. Wizard segment. When you slam a magazine hard into the weapon you are actually causing the weapon to move upward quite rapidly. Inertia keeps the slide release in the same place, effectively dropping it. You don't need to slam mags in that hard. And you shouldn't be trying to make that happen. But if you practice enough, you can use that to increase your speed to the shot after a reload when it happens. Just don't count on it happening. Make sure you practice proper reloads, but adjust to the situation to take advantage of it when it does happen.

August 30, 2011, 11:27 PM	#9
NVBigEd Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2011 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 152	Some do, some don't. If you are using good habits during your reload, auto release shouldn't be a problem. Competitive shooters actively look for examples that do "do" that. Neither of my Glocks perform in that way, but I have several friends that theirs do. Just work on your technique to develop a procedure to insure it does reset into battery after the new magazine is inserted. One of my friends lost a match because he was expecting his gun to "auto release" in a timed reload session and when it failed to release upon insertion, he seemed to lock up for 2 or 3 seconds trying to process what to do. It cost him the stage, but it could cost you much more. __________________ "Indecision may, or may not, be my problem!"

August 30, 2011, 10:38 PM	#2
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	Why are you slamming in the magazine for? Like are you doing it that hard? Cause yes actually..not just with Glock I don't think. But any gun...wait...let me go slap my guns. Seriously. One second. I have a Glock 21st and 22 and 27 if they do it I'm going to do the same to my SIG and XD...One sec.

August 30, 2011, 10:43 PM	#5
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	Whoa man...Just did it. Mine did the same damn thing. I was a little uneasy. Felt like it was going to shoot the round it chambered.....Let me try the SIG now. No I know, you weren't.

August 30, 2011, 11:15 PM	#8
P11100010 Junior Member Join Date: August 5, 2011 Location: Maryland Posts: 12	An instructor at a NRA home protection course was showing that trick. Called it speed loading. According to the instructor it only works with Glock and requires slapping the mag in. Only saves the motion of releasing the slide. Don't think I would use unless actively engaged.

August 30, 2011, 11:46 PM	#10
safe cracker Member Join Date: April 9, 2009 Posts: 66	most glocks do it, it works better if ur holding the gun flat and not in the shooting pos. even then its not a 100%.

August 30, 2011, 11:48 PM	#11
Departed402 Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 884	So is it as Mezzkat suggested, and it's the inertia that's causing it to happen? In any case, it's comforting to know I'm not alone with this issue. I'm glad I'm aware of it now rather than finding out during a life or death situation. It's just something I'll have to train with, and be wary of. __________________ Slow is Smooth. Smooth is Fast.

August 30, 2011, 11:59 PM	#12
NVBigEd Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2011 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 152	Here's a thread from a few days ago about this on another forum, specific to Glocks.... http://glock.pro/showthread.php/3409...o-release-quot __________________ "Indecision may, or may not, be my problem!"

August 31, 2011, 12:00 AM	#13
Kimbertron Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2011 Location: Middle of nowhere Posts: 287	I was curious after i read this and tried it with my G17, I wasn't able to make the slide release no matter how hard i slammed it. I was in doors and not in a safe shooting area so i was using an unloaded magazine so i don't know if that makes a difference. Im also rather small so maybe i just couldn't do it haha. Mine has about 3500-4000 rounds throught it so now new but not completely worn in i think.

August 31, 2011, 12:34 AM	#14
safe cracker Member Join Date: April 9, 2009 Posts: 66	here you go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fZUG...yer_detailpage

August 31, 2011, 12:37 AM	#15
safe cracker Member Join Date: April 9, 2009 Posts: 66	work's better with a full mag too...

August 31, 2011, 12:58 AM	#16
phatspeed7x Junior member Join Date: October 16, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 132	Testing this with a unloaded mag is pointless because the slide lock will always be in the locked position... I do not recommend testing this theory indoors, just incase the gun does decide to go off. This is interesting read. I would get that gun checkout asap.....

August 31, 2011, 06:33 AM	#17
mezzkat Member Join Date: August 30, 2011 Posts: 22	Joneeman, if you watched the video that safecracker posted, you may notice a few things. First, he was using live ammo. He should have used snap caps or dummunition to make a video, but real point is that it will not work with an empty mag because the empty mag's follower will keep the slide release up. Second, you CAN do it with any semi auto pistol that uses that basic slide release design. Third, he bumped the magazine by hitting the base plate while the pistol was still. It's that rapid acceleration of the pistol that's required to move it independent of the slide release. Try keeping your support hand still and slamming the pistol onto your support hand, it won't go into battery because you can't decelerate the pistol hard enough so that the pistol stops but the slide release keeps moving. That's how you can prove to yourself that it's just inertia at play. Fourth, he didn't engage the safety on the 1911 after making it ready. He should have done that. Bottom line is there is nothing wrong with your weapon. However, I bet you're bringing it in closer to your body when you reload. Keep it out and up in your line of sight to the target when reloading. It probably won't go into battery because you can't slam the mag hard enough with nearly straight arms. You'll also be able to keep the threat in your line of sight while reloading. You don't want to be looking down during a reload.

August 31, 2011, 06:46 AM	#18
new_scopeshooter Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2011 Location: central ohio Posts: 391	One way to test this would be to load the mag with dummy rounds so there is no chance of a live round being sent down the hallway!

August 31, 2011, 07:11 AM	#19
moose_nukelz Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2011 Posts: 125	Some will, some won't. We are issued Beretta's at work and when I reload I train to do it so the slide goes home because for me it is less movement to get the gun running again. My Glock 23 does it rarely so I don't even try anymore, I put in the magazine and hit the slide release and go. My M&P will release the slide but not as easily as the Beretta but it is also a week old and only has approximately 500 rounds through it. On my M&P, the slide release is very difficult to operate because of the angles of the cut and the gun being new, so I am training to powerstroke the slide if it does not go into battery on it's own. Find something that works for you and your gun(s) and do train on all of them that way so you don't have to think about it under stress. __________________ Bust em

August 31, 2011, 08:00 AM	#20
Uncle Malice Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2009 Location: Phoenix Posts: 4,580	I've never been able to get any of my 16 Glocks to do this... I'm surprised how many people get this to work. On the contrary, every HK that I have owned do this easily and actually quite reliably, although I never make a habit out of it. __________________ Handguns: 2x Glock 19.4 \| Glock 26.4 \| HK USP 9 \| HK P2000 \| HK VP9 SK \| HK P30 \| CZ Shadow 2 \| CZ P-10 C \| CZ P-07 \| CZP-01 \| S&W 360PD Rifles: DDM4 \| SGL 21 \| SAM7K \| Draco \| PSA PDW SBR \| ASA Side-Charger SBR \| CZ Scorpion K SBR \| Aero M4E1 9" 300blk SBR \| Angstadt Jack9 SBR \| Savage Mark II FV-SR Shotguns: Mossberg 590A1 20" SP \| Mossberg Shockwave

August 31, 2011, 08:26 AM	#21
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	As said, very common with Glocks, possible with others... my Plastic M&P does so. A lot of IDPA shooters come to depend on it for a quicker reload from slide lock. If the slide closes before the top round is presented to the chamber, then the reload is not so quick, but that is uncommon enough to take the chance.

August 31, 2011, 09:56 AM	#22
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	What Jim said. When I was shooting in IDPA more regularly, I really WANTED this to happen with all of my guns, not just my Glocks. Only the Glocks could be counted on to do it. Some IPSC/USPSA shooters tweak their guns so that this is a reliable trait on their non-Glock guns. I don't view it as a safety issue, but as is the case with Microsoft, an "undocumented feature" that really is good (rather than bad, as is usually the case with computer programs. I've also never had it cause a problem (i.e., not chamber a round properly) in a match...

August 31, 2011, 10:15 AM	#23
Timbow Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 167	I'm an instructor for our dept. and I've seen it happen numerous times on the range as well as had it happen numerous times on my issued G22. Like you noticed, the mag has to be seated with significant force to make it happen and mine has never done it reliably enough to even consider relying on it in a defensive situation. Don't worry about seating a mag too hard, you should be training to seat the mag with some authority to make sure it locks in, especially with fully loaded new mags. I've seen way more problems with mags falling back out of guns than slides going forward on their own. My instructor back in the academy told us about our Glocks, "If you are able to break that damn thing I'll personally buy you a new one". To my knowledge he never took his checkbook out. __________________ Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

August 31, 2011, 10:24 AM	#24
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	It's happened from time to with alot of the autos I've owned. Now if the slide won't lock back on the last round, something is wrong... There is nothing wrong with a bit of force when loading a mag up, I was actually taught to do it that way. However, there is no need to go overboard with, just make sure it's in there. Sent via Android