Lead sled

[ADIDAS69]

So the past couple months I’ve done a ton of OCW evaluations on my rifles which have lead me to discover I’m the only one who uses ratcheting hold downs to secure his lead sled to the bench. Every visit to the range results in a minimum of two people whose minds are blown that instead of cumbersome amounts of weight a person could use ratcheting hold down straps. This includes pal at my local fastener distributor who I described the idea to. I don’t have a YouTube channel so I’m depositing this wicked awesome knowledge here. Hope it helps. Be sure to measure how long your straps should be as benches vary. Also it’s best to have three, two in front one in back. Also I do not strap the gun so as to avoid affecting barrel hermonics.

[Mobuck]

If you tie it down too solidly, you run the risk of stock damage(with heavy recoiling rounds). Just my 2 cents.

[cecILL]

OW! You realize that the recoil has to go somewhere.

[CDR_Glock]

I don’t even use weights on my lead sled.


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[Sea Buck]

I don't like a lead sled. I have been told of cracked stocks and damaged optics. I use a Past shoulder pad for the heavy recoilers and shoot from the bench and standing.

[Cheapshooter]

Two twenty five pound bar bell weights work perfectly. Enough "give", as designed in the system to prevent stock damage. Could it be that's why the Lead Sled is designed that way? Instead of some kind of attachment points for straps or cables.

[reynolds357]

Lead sled is a great way to miss game. People seem to forget, or were never trained, that you hold a rifle the same way every time you shoot it.
Take a 1000 yard bench rifle. Shoot it in free recoil. Shoot it in a lead sled. One shot will be off paper.
If you are recoil scared, why a lead sled? Why not a gun vice? Both are equally counterproductive.

[the possum]

Adida, thank you for your wonderful idea. Ratchet straps would be much easier to take along than bags of lead shot.

[ADIDAS69]

I saw several posts concerned with regard to recoil and having the straps too tight. There is more than enough elastic quality to the straps that weapon and optics damage is nonexistent; whatever stories anyone has heard I would genuinely like to see facts and evidence to support the claims. As I stated in the original post the gun itself is not restrained. There was also a note about fear of recoil, if you read the original post I use the sled for testing to sterilize load testing as much as possible. after testing the sled is removed from the equation. As a note also to POI shift from sled to shoulder I’ve discovered no misadventure even with regard to my 300 Win Mag and 300 R.U.M. My groups tend to open up about 3% at a maximum but the overall POI is unaffected.

[Don Fischer]

Instead of a lead sled, I prefer 50# sack of potato's across the barrel in front of the scope. Of course then your gonna need high rings! :-)

[mellow_c]

Anytime I'm sighting in a rifle, or shooting for the best groups I can manage just for fun or to see what the rifle and ammo are capable of, I just use a front and rear bag, and my own physical body. I just feel more connected to the process that way, and as a result I feel more accomplished. . . Makes me feel like even though I'm shooting off a bench with bags, that there is still a chance that I could shoot (almost) that well in the field if I could get in a good enough position with decent rests. Also then I'm still dealing with the same length of pull instead of having that extra inch or so between the rifle and myself that a lead sled adds.

All that being said. . . If I were really trying to get the best group I could possibly manage just because I really wanted to see what a particular rifle is truly capable of, a lead sled would be ideal.

I've shot other peoples rifles in lead sleds off the bench before and I can see the appeal, but it was always such a chore to reposition the whole sled after each shot. I'd imagine using ratcheting straps to hold the sled in place would be a nice convenience, even if some very minor fine tuning is still required after each shot to get the rifle to be precisely back on target.

Not allowing the rifle much for cushioning though during recoil is a bit concerning to me with more powerful cartridges, but i suppose it could also be a good way to test the strength of your set up! Ha!

[Cheapshooter]

People seem to forget, or were never trained, that you hold a rifle the same way every time you shoot it.

Maybe with some sort of exotic 1000 yd precision rifle. But back in the real world I use the sled for sighting in, then shoot from my sticks that I always use when hunting. To both check for the possibility of a change in zero, and just to try a couple different angles like standing and sitting. Out to what would be a reasonable shot for my area, around 300 yds, there is so little difference that it makes no difference in putting back strspd on the table. Then there is the strong possibility that the difference is caused more by any slight movement from me being the rear support.

[roc1]

Get a Past shoulder pad like suggested and put muzzle brake on it. With machine makes clamp on type I have a couple work good. Tried lead sled hated it can't shoot off it changes way you stock rifle to shoulder so I sent it back. Just my .02 cents worth
Roc1

[jmr40]

I've seen several photos posted in the past of broken stocks when used on lead sleds, some expensive aftermarket synthetic stocks and several wood. I can see some usefulness for someone developing handloads and wanting to eliminate all human error to determine the most accurate loads. But it is the rare rifle that will impact in exactly the same place in field positions once zeroed on a lead sled. I wouldn't use one if someone gave me one as a gift.

Once I have developed my loads and have the rifle zeroed I shoot from field positions in order to hone my shooting skills. A lead sled is like training wheels on a bike. If you never take the training wheels off you never truly learn how to ride. Forget the lead sled and truly learn how to shoot.

[ADIDAS69]

So I google searched the following phrases

“Lead sled destroys gun”
“Gun destroyed by lead sled”
“Never use a lead sled”
“Why not to use a lead sled”

I scanned through the image results and the first two pages of web results and the closest I could come to identifying a problem associated with mechanical failure was a forum post wherein a user’s 505 Gibbs actually broke the lead sled. So long as you don’t restrain the rifle itself it will jump once all rearward movement is exhausted just like it does in your shoulder.

[ADIDAS69]

Also these MENSA candidates.

https://youtu.be/CLxMlL333_Y

Notice how the muzzle rises up during recoil, the same reaction happens in a lead sled sans some poor idiot falling down.

[Don Fischer]

I never owned a lead sled, don't see a reason to. If a rifle has to much recoil off a bench, you probably need to re think the cartridge your shooting. On the other hand, if you can't shoot decent group's without a sled, you need to re think your own shooting technique!

[tdoyka]

i own a lead sled but i only use it to find groups of what is needed.

a lead sled and my 1898 springfield armory in 30-40 krag was tested at a 165gr ranch dog and 25.0, 25.5, 26.0 and 26.5gr of h4198. it was tested 5 times(25.0 gr goes 5x, 25.5gr goes 5x....). the best groups go approx 3/4 - 1 1/2" at 100 yards(5 shots, lead sled on a bench). it was 3"+/- high 2"+/- left, so i did do "the thingy" to correct it. the 30-40 krag is now 1 1/2" high at 100 yards(5 shots, bench)

the thingy

[Paul B.]

"Also these MENSA candidates.

https://youtu.be/CLxMlL333_Y

Notice how the muzzle rises up during recoil, the same reaction happens in a lead sled sans some poor idiot falling down."

IIRC, that rifle was chambered to the .577 T-rex. I once said I had the guts to shoot any rifle made but do believe I'd pass on that one. Come to think of it I don't even shoot my big bores, .404 Jeffery and .416 Rigby any more. My 79 year old shoulder protests profusely these days.
Paul B.
__________________

[reynolds357]

Some posting say its t rex most say its 700 nitro.

[ADIDAS69]

Yeah Don Fischer here’s the thing, if you’d read my post you’d know I’m doing load development. when I’m finished I’d like to know, not think, I’ve got the best combination of bullet and powder for my rifle. Anything post lead sled I can at least know, not think, is do to my skills not the rifles capabilities.

[reynolds357]

A load in a lead sled may not shoot the same as it does in lesser recoil. If best groups were shot on a lead sled, you might see one in competition. Wonder why you dont? Even on the howling days at the 1k shoots, when the mouse guns disappear and the boomers come out; still no lead sled. (They are legal in this sanctioning body by the way)The only way a lead sled is truly accurate is mounted to linear bearing rails, then it's competition illegal. You are putting it in modified free recoil until after the bullet leaves the barrel.

[SA1911]

I own a lead Sled. The posters who have cautioned the OP about recoil are right on the money.

My advice is to use it sparingly; e.g, sighting-in. Do not weight it down or prevent it from moving with recoil.

Of course, I'm talking about big game rifles. With small bore rifles that have negligible recoil, there is (hopefully) no issue with using a Lead Sled. But then again, with a minimally recoiling rifle, there'd be no reason to weight it down or prevent it from moving with recoil.

[tangolima]

Adding weight to sled versus tying it down to a structure underneath, there is surely a difference. I don't own one, but I did use one a few times in the past.

You don't tie down the rifle to restraint its muzzle raise, that's given. The rifle rotates up as if fired from the shoulder. Why use the sled then? It is to reduce the rearward recoil force.

I won't go into the physics details. It is the principle of conservation of momentum. You need to increase the mass of whatever behind the rifle. Leaning into the stock with your shoulder is one way. A sled with lead weight is another.

Tying the sled down to a table doesn't really increase the mass. The sled still slides on the table top, unless the tie down force is so strong that the sled is practically part of the table, in which case the sled takes up the mass of the table. For that perhaps you will do better tying it "down and forward". You may notice tying it down helps. That is because of the braking action of the frictional force between the sled and the table. A sled with weight is like a truck being by a small car. A tied down sled is like a van with a set brake being hit by a small car. A tied down and forward sled is like a van with set brake and its rear end butting against a truck being hit by a small car. Three different scenarios.

Still be careful if the table is fixed or very heavy. It is equivalent to setting the rifle's stock against a wall. Things may start to break. At least the rifle muzzle may jump up higher and higher till it rotate back and over, like in the video.

Bottom line. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, you will find out sooner or later.

-TL





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[Don Fischer]

Originally Posted by ADIDAS69

So the past couple months I’ve done a ton of OCW evaluations on my rifles which have lead me to discover I’m the only one who uses ratcheting hold downs to secure his lead sled to the bench. Every visit to the range results in a minimum of two people whose minds are blown that instead of cumbersome amounts of weight a person could use ratcheting hold down straps. This includes pal at my local fastener distributor who I described the idea to. I don’t have a YouTube channel so I’m depositing this wicked awesome knowledge here. Hope it helps. Be sure to measure how long your straps should be as benches vary. Also it’s best to have three, two in front one in back. Also I do not strap the gun so as to avoid affecting barrel hermonics.

What is OCW evaluations?