Thompson Center .50 Hawken Twist Rate

BlackPowderBen · January 12, 2016, 08:04 PM

Hi guys,
I was wondering if any of you know what the twist rate is in a TC Hawken .50?
Thanks!

Wyosmith · January 12, 2016, 08:15 PM

1 turn in 48 inches

BlackPowderBen · January 12, 2016, 08:36 PM

So it's a round ball or REAL bullet gun then

Pahoo · January 12, 2016, 08:49 PM

Quote:

So it's a round ball or REAL bullet gun then

Yes and far from perfect. ......

Be Safe !!!

Hawg · January 12, 2016, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Yes and far from perfect. ....

But good enough tho some shoot one better than the other.

BlackPowderBen · January 12, 2016, 09:01 PM

Maybe I should get one of those real/round ball combo molds

Wyosmith · January 12, 2016, 10:06 PM

The TC barrels were rifled with a turn in 48", but they were also a bit on the shallow side. They are super accurate with light to mid-range loads of black powder. In a 50 cal you can expect very good results with 45 to 60 grains of powder, but more will usually open up the group. Because the grooves are a bit shallow they usually use a .495 ball with a .010 to ,012 patch.
The thin patches can't hold as much lube as a thicker patch can. Also they are not as strong as a thicker patch of the identical material. So that is why the guns run with lighter charges best with balls.
now with a bullet it's a different story. If you use the the TC "Maxi balls" (bullets) you will often find the old TC rifles shoot wonderfully well with heavy charges. There are a number of other bullets that work as well too.

But don't worry about the quality of the barrel. As a rule the TC barrels were excellent, but just not made to fire balls with heavy charges.

hartcreek · January 12, 2016, 11:24 PM

It could be one in 48 or one in 66. The only real way to tell is to use a cleaning rod and measure the twist when you insert.

Hawg · January 13, 2016, 09:11 AM

Thinking it would have to be pretty old to be 1:66. Maybe some of the Douglas or Sharon barreled ones were. I might be wrong but I don't think any of the newer TC's were anything but 1:48.

deerslayer303 · January 13, 2016, 02:01 PM

The best I can get my Prestamp TC Hawken to do with its 1:48 barrel is about a 4" group at 100 yards. .490" ball .015 ticking patch and 80grains of FFg KIK Real Black Powder. As far as a TC Maxi Ball, uhh forget it. With out a ball peen hammer there is NO WAY a .50 cal TC maxi ball is going in that barrel. So I've only fired Round ball out of it. Which is what I prefer anyway. Some folks claim they get real good accuracy with a Power Belt ( 1 in 48 barrel) over a stiff charge of the PUSH!

noelf2 · January 13, 2016, 06:30 PM

Mine was a kit gun I bought and finished in 1978. Did it right in 1993. It's 1:66 twist.

BlackPowderBen · January 13, 2016, 09:39 PM

I bought mine used, don't know the year

9x45 · January 13, 2016, 11:20 PM

My TC Hawken 50, from the early 70's, serial # 2, with a custom fit Green Mountain round ball barrel. Don't remember the twist, 1 in 66 I believe, but have shot 5 shot groups touching at 100 yards rested. Along with my TC Patriot. Both refinished in hand rubbed linseed oil. Never mind the Win Model 70 in .243 and the TC Contender in .35Rem, was just taking pics for insurance proof.

Hawg · January 14, 2016, 12:53 AM

A rifle that early had a Sharon barrel. Why did you change it out?

JJ45 · January 28, 2016, 01:04 PM

This thread is a little old but I just saw it.

We have had a Flintlock only season in Pa. since the late 70s beginning the day after Xmas and lasting about two weeks.

Its funny but when that season rolls around I kinda forget about all other guns and shooting and really get into shooting my flint locks.

I have two TC Hawkens and two Renegades 50 and 54 cal. I gave my son a 50 Renegade and I have, in addition, a TC New Englander Cap in .54.

They are all 1:48" except I have a 50 Cal GM barrel which is 1:70 twist and surprisingly, although all the same twist, all like something different as far as load, ball, bullet, patch thickness, charge, etc.

Deerslayer, I have found 320, 370 gr Maxis and the Maxi Hunters ridiculously easy to load even in moderately fouled bores in all of these rifles. But I have also found that these projectiles cause excessive leading even with relatively light powder charges. Maxis were even illegal for a time and some contend it was because of the possibility of the maxi sliding off the charge and creating a bore obstruction. I have never seen this happen but all the boys I know that use them generally keep the barrel tilted up and occasionally give the bullet a tap with the ram rod to be sure it is seated on the powder charge.

deerslayer303 · January 28, 2016, 02:36 PM

My TC must have a tight bore then. Or the 320 Maxis I had were a little big. I kid you not, you will bruise your hand on the short starter trying to get them in. The lands bit into the heel of the bullet pretty deep. I had to get it out with a pair of vise grips after I was only able to get the heel of the bullet started. Those Maxi balls have since wound up in the Lee 10lb Pot and made more .490's. I am kinda interested in trying a Powerbelt in the old gal though.

Hawg · January 28, 2016, 03:04 PM

Never had a TC but I used an Investarms for over 30 years. Maxi's were hard to load but were decently accurate. There was no danger of them falling out that's for sure. I tried some sabots when they first came out but they all tumbled. I switched to round balls 15 or 20 years ago and never looked back.

BlackPowderBen · January 28, 2016, 04:21 PM

what about R.E.A.L bullets?
I'm thinking of getting a combo mold that makes a round ball and a real bullet

deerslayer303 · January 28, 2016, 04:46 PM

Ben, I shot the REAL bullets in a Cabelas Carbine I had once and they seemed to load and shoot pretty good. And they were real easy to cast.

Hawg · January 28, 2016, 06:18 PM

I had a conical mold once that made pretty good bullets. I think it may have been a REAL but I liked the Maxi Balls better. Neither was as good as a round ball tho.

Pahoo · January 29, 2016, 11:32 AM

Quote:

what about R.E.A.L bullets?

Personally, I never cared much for the R.E.A.L. conicals and it's entirely possible that I did not give them a fair chance. I've run a number of different conicals and even though the Maxi-Balls were easier to work with, they still did not give me good performance. For a hunter the Maxi-Hunters were much better and so were the Hornady Great Plaines. .....

My current choice is a .45 Mini Lyman and it is coming in very nicely. It's still is a good hunter and performs well at punching paper. ...

Most of the time I just enjoy shooting PRB's and enjoy my range-time .....

Be Safe !!!

sproulman · February 5, 2016, 03:50 PM

Twist as said is 1-48.gun is made for 370 gr maxi -ball not MAXI-HUNTERS..Stay with maxi-ball 370.use up to 75 grs of 2 ft and 70 grs of 3 f..If you groups open up you are too hot ...On to rb,i use 90 grs of 3f with .018 patch and bore button for deer when i want..deadly........

I an trying 348 powerbelt as maxi-ball 370 gr is almost as expensive..In cold the maxi-ball bore butter gets cold and its harder to use on bullets ..Powerbelts are a lot easier to use ..

will know how the 348 pb group in spring if they do group well I am chainging to pb for buck hunting ...

YOU WILL NOT GO WRONG IF YOU LISTEN TO MY ADVICE FOR 45 YEARS WITH ONLY HAWKENS FLINTLOCK, USE 370 GR MAXI-BALL AND YOU WILL CUT HOLES IN TARGET IF ITS NOT HOT LOAD...

JJ45 · February 8, 2016, 06:18 AM

I have found a .18 patch, bore butter lubed and 100 gr 2f to be superbly accurate in a .54 Cal 1:48 bore, both flint and cap. Although I doubt if a 26-28 inch tube can burn this much powder efficiently for a PRB load, it is a very accurate load. But all guns are differant.

But as a hunting load, which is the main purpose of my BP shooting, I have found loading even a second shot with this load too difficult to be practical FOR HUNTING.

For the hunt I have settled on 75 gr FFF, a .530 ball and a .10 patch lubed with 50/50 Ballistol water mix allowed to dry so the water evaporates. It is accurate enough for deer hunting and I can get at least a half dozen shots w/o swabbing the bore, maybe more but I haven't tried it.

BTW, I know this load is not the most efficient but it achieves a balance of adequate enough power for deer,accuracy (2" at 50 yards) and ease of loading for follow up shots if needed. Again, all guns seem to prefer something different.

January 12, 2016, 08:04 PM	#1
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	Thompson Center .50 Hawken Twist Rate Hi guys, I was wondering if any of you know what the twist rate is in a TC Hawken .50? Thanks! __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

January 12, 2016, 08:36 PM	#3
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	So it's a round ball or REAL bullet gun then __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

January 12, 2016, 09:01 PM	#6
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	Maybe I should get one of those real/round ball combo molds __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

January 13, 2016, 02:01 PM	#10
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,653	The best I can get my Prestamp TC Hawken to do with its 1:48 barrel is about a 4" group at 100 yards. .490" ball .015 ticking patch and 80grains of FFg KIK Real Black Powder. As far as a TC Maxi Ball, uhh forget it. With out a ball peen hammer there is NO WAY a .50 cal TC maxi ball is going in that barrel. So I've only fired Round ball out of it. Which is what I prefer anyway. Some folks claim they get real good accuracy with a Power Belt ( 1 in 48 barrel) over a stiff charge of the PUSH! __________________ "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

January 13, 2016, 06:30 PM	#11
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Mine was a kit gun I bought and finished in 1978. Did it right in 1993. It's 1:66 twist. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

January 12, 2016, 08:15 PM	#2
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	1 turn in 48 inches

January 12, 2016, 10:06 PM	#7
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	The TC barrels were rifled with a turn in 48", but they were also a bit on the shallow side. They are super accurate with light to mid-range loads of black powder. In a 50 cal you can expect very good results with 45 to 60 grains of powder, but more will usually open up the group. Because the grooves are a bit shallow they usually use a .495 ball with a .010 to ,012 patch. The thin patches can't hold as much lube as a thicker patch can. Also they are not as strong as a thicker patch of the identical material. So that is why the guns run with lighter charges best with balls. now with a bullet it's a different story. If you use the the TC "Maxi balls" (bullets) you will often find the old TC rifles shoot wonderfully well with heavy charges. There are a number of other bullets that work as well too. But don't worry about the quality of the barrel. As a rule the TC barrels were excellent, but just not made to fire balls with heavy charges.

January 12, 2016, 11:24 PM	#8
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	It could be one in 48 or one in 66. The only real way to tell is to use a cleaning rod and measure the twist when you insert.

January 13, 2016, 09:11 AM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Thinking it would have to be pretty old to be 1:66. Maybe some of the Douglas or Sharon barreled ones were. I might be wrong but I don't think any of the newer TC's were anything but 1:48.

January 13, 2016, 09:39 PM	#12
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	I bought mine used, don't know the year __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

January 13, 2016, 11:20 PM	#13
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	My TC Hawken 50, from the early 70's, serial # 2, with a custom fit Green Mountain round ball barrel. Don't remember the twist, 1 in 66 I believe, but have shot 5 shot groups touching at 100 yards rested. Along with my TC Patriot. Both refinished in hand rubbed linseed oil. Never mind the Win Model 70 in .243 and the TC Contender in .35Rem, was just taking pics for insurance proof. __________________ Sometimes my Glock forgets where to look..... Last edited by 9x45; January 13, 2016 at 11:31 PM.

January 14, 2016, 12:53 AM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	A rifle that early had a Sharon barrel. Why did you change it out?

January 28, 2016, 01:04 PM	#15
JJ45 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2015 Posts: 908	This thread is a little old but I just saw it. We have had a Flintlock only season in Pa. since the late 70s beginning the day after Xmas and lasting about two weeks. Its funny but when that season rolls around I kinda forget about all other guns and shooting and really get into shooting my flint locks. I have two TC Hawkens and two Renegades 50 and 54 cal. I gave my son a 50 Renegade and I have, in addition, a TC New Englander Cap in .54. They are all 1:48" except I have a 50 Cal GM barrel which is 1:70 twist and surprisingly, although all the same twist, all like something different as far as load, ball, bullet, patch thickness, charge, etc. Deerslayer, I have found 320, 370 gr Maxis and the Maxi Hunters ridiculously easy to load even in moderately fouled bores in all of these rifles. But I have also found that these projectiles cause excessive leading even with relatively light powder charges. Maxis were even illegal for a time and some contend it was because of the possibility of the maxi sliding off the charge and creating a bore obstruction. I have never seen this happen but all the boys I know that use them generally keep the barrel tilted up and occasionally give the bullet a tap with the ram rod to be sure it is seated on the powder charge.

January 28, 2016, 02:36 PM	#16
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,653	My TC must have a tight bore then. Or the 320 Maxis I had were a little big. I kid you not, you will bruise your hand on the short starter trying to get them in. The lands bit into the heel of the bullet pretty deep. I had to get it out with a pair of vise grips after I was only able to get the heel of the bullet started. Those Maxi balls have since wound up in the Lee 10lb Pot and made more .490's. I am kinda interested in trying a Powerbelt in the old gal though. Last edited by deerslayer303; January 28, 2016 at 03:01 PM.

January 28, 2016, 03:04 PM	#17
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Never had a TC but I used an Investarms for over 30 years. Maxi's were hard to load but were decently accurate. There was no danger of them falling out that's for sure. I tried some sabots when they first came out but they all tumbled. I switched to round balls 15 or 20 years ago and never looked back.

January 28, 2016, 04:21 PM	#18
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	what about R.E.A.L bullets? I'm thinking of getting a combo mold that makes a round ball and a real bullet __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

January 28, 2016, 04:46 PM	#19
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,653	Ben, I shot the REAL bullets in a Cabelas Carbine I had once and they seemed to load and shoot pretty good. And they were real easy to cast.

January 28, 2016, 06:18 PM	#20
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	I had a conical mold once that made pretty good bullets. I think it may have been a REAL but I liked the Maxi Balls better. Neither was as good as a round ball tho.

February 5, 2016, 03:50 PM	#22
sproulman Junior Member Join Date: February 5, 2016 Posts: 3	hawkins 50 cal Twist as said is 1-48.gun is made for 370 gr maxi -ball not MAXI-HUNTERS..Stay with maxi-ball 370.use up to 75 grs of 2 ft and 70 grs of 3 f..If you groups open up you are too hot ...On to rb,i use 90 grs of 3f with .018 patch and bore button for deer when i want..deadly........ I an trying 348 powerbelt as maxi-ball 370 gr is almost as expensive..In cold the maxi-ball bore butter gets cold and its harder to use on bullets ..Powerbelts are a lot easier to use .. will know how the 348 pb group in spring if they do group well I am chainging to pb for buck hunting ... YOU WILL NOT GO WRONG IF YOU LISTEN TO MY ADVICE FOR 45 YEARS WITH ONLY HAWKENS FLINTLOCK, USE 370 GR MAXI-BALL AND YOU WILL CUT HOLES IN TARGET IF ITS NOT HOT LOAD... Last edited by sproulman; February 5, 2016 at 04:00 PM.

February 8, 2016, 06:18 AM	#23
JJ45 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2015 Posts: 908	I have found a .18 patch, bore butter lubed and 100 gr 2f to be superbly accurate in a .54 Cal 1:48 bore, both flint and cap. Although I doubt if a 26-28 inch tube can burn this much powder efficiently for a PRB load, it is a very accurate load. But all guns are differant. But as a hunting load, which is the main purpose of my BP shooting, I have found loading even a second shot with this load too difficult to be practical FOR HUNTING. For the hunt I have settled on 75 gr FFF, a .530 ball and a .10 patch lubed with 50/50 Ballistol water mix allowed to dry so the water evaporates. It is accurate enough for deer hunting and I can get at least a half dozen shots w/o swabbing the bore, maybe more but I haven't tried it. BTW, I know this load is not the most efficient but it achieves a balance of adequate enough power for deer,accuracy (2" at 50 yards) and ease of loading for follow up shots if needed. Again, all guns seem to prefer something different.