R&D or Kirst - Page 2

Smokin_Gun · May 22, 2010, 01:58 PM

Thanks for the Info and Pic of that new 5 shot .45Colt conversion for the Rems...Iwonder why he did that? the 6 shot Cylinders worked just fine.
Myself I do not like a 5 shot cylinder as far as clocking and timeing go...I think if I get a new conversion it would be the Kirst for a Rem with the loading gate. The Kirst only holds 5 shots but it is a 6 shot timed cylinder with jus a dead chamber not drilled thru.
I guess actually i don't really like that one as much as i do the Old R&D 6 shot conversion and would rather buy a used R&D with 6 shots than the Kirst or the New Howell 5 shot.
But that's just me and what I prefer...I'm certain that the new Rem Cylinder is more beefy but not by alot and that 1 degree of slanted chambers in the old Convesion R&D ain't nothin' to worry about as they shoot just fine.
I may jus' stick with my R&D 6 shot cly. for my Rogers&Spencer and the ROA 6 shot and be happy.
Thanks for the Info ... and these are just my opinions on what I like, no more & no less :O)

arcticap · May 22, 2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokin_Gun

Rems...Iwonder why he did that? the 6 shot Cylinders worked just fine.

My first thought was that the 5 shot cylinder is cheaper to produce. And now they won't be outdone and overlooked because of the 2 degree angle. Since the competition also has a 5 shot too, for Howell it's a win-win I guess. And only those shooters who would really prefer a 6 shot cylinder will have "lost out".

Smokin_Gun · May 22, 2010, 09:48 PM

The 1 or 2 degree angle as you mentioned it to be don't mean a dang thing as it comes out the barrel...if anyone can show where it makes any differance I'd be glad to listen. Also if anyone has an R&D Conversion 6 shot Cyl. in .45Colt for a Uberti for sale let me know I'll take it. Hell I may even take a Pietta one and lap it down a few .0010".(for the right price)
CAS I am told will not alow a 5 shot cylinder in competition, so I'm not sure all competition shooters will want a five shot revolver that compete.
Anyone have the all the competition facts?
I'd rather shoot a six shot Remington C&B with five rounds loaded and have two cylinders and shoot Frontier Class that not be able to shoot a 5 shot .45Colt in Competition at all... According to CAS rules I thought you had to have the hammer down on one empty Chamber. Have those rules changed?
Just curious and putting the question out there so some Cowboy or Cowgirl don't buy something they can't use.
What they should have done was made a .44 Colt... 6 shot.
My inquiring mind jus' wants to know...cause they wouldn't let me shoot an 1862 Pocket Police 5 shot .36 cal rev at a CAS shoot with 5 in it and the hammer down on the safety pins.

Hardcase · May 22, 2010, 10:37 PM

Well, the Kirst 5-shot cylinder is CAS legal because that sixth chamber is there, but just a "dummy". If you look at the Howell/R&D 5-shot cylinder, there's a hole between two of the chambers for the hammer to rest. Is it the same as an empty cylinder? Well, neither is, really, but it seems to me that if the rules allow for Kirst's method, it should allow Howell's, too. If you can show that your hammer is down on that fake cylinder, it's as safe as being on an empty.

Smokin_Gun · May 22, 2010, 11:24 PM

That makes sence to me hardcase. I bet Kenny Howell had already checked into that about the CAS rules before he made that 5 shot Conversion for the rems. Ken's a pretty sharp guy when it comes to makin' these Conversions, and I have two R&D Mfg. Cylinders and one gated .38 Kirst for a Colt.
How much are them new 5 shot Cylinders goin' for now and who's sellin' um besides Kenny Howell himself, anyone know?(is there a long line to wait for them?)

Smokin_Gun · May 26, 2010, 02:23 AM

This otta be here...a lil' history on conversions... also consists of Kirst and R&D info.

http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/history.html

Dino. · May 26, 2010, 08:15 AM

Quote:

This otta be here...a lil' history on conversions... also consists of Kirst and R&D info.

Good stuff.
Thanks for posting that.

Fiv3 · May 26, 2010, 10:01 AM

Thanks for the good read

JNewell · May 26, 2010, 02:07 PM

Seconded, good stuff - thank you.

Smokin_Gun · May 27, 2010, 12:51 AM

Yur welcome Gentlemen... all I know is I like um both...I think I'd prefer an R&D 6 or Five shot as they are more authentic to the Rimfire .46 cal than the Kirst for the Remingtons. But I like the Kirst cause you can hog out the loading channel and match it to the Kirst backring and make it a five shot loader w/o removing the cylinder and with no gate.
Halfway Creek Charlie built that one with the U-joint loading lever that way and it shot great. It was a Pietta that he shortened the barrel on made that u-joint lever, and put a .44Colt Kirst that took heeled bullets. We did get together one time out here in the Mojave for a great day a shootin'. I sure wish he'd show up again, he's good people.
I like the gated Kirst for Colts...all I can say is you may jus' need to buy one a each :O) R&D makes gated ones too but you need a template tool to locate holes and drill the mounting screw holes out, so you need to buy the locating tool also or send the Rev to Kenny Howell.
Tuff choices hope this stuff helped some

May 22, 2010, 01:58 PM	#26
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Thanks for the Info and Pic of that new 5 shot .45Colt conversion for the Rems...Iwonder why he did that? the 6 shot Cylinders worked just fine. Myself I do not like a 5 shot cylinder as far as clocking and timeing go...I think if I get a new conversion it would be the Kirst for a Rem with the loading gate. The Kirst only holds 5 shots but it is a 6 shot timed cylinder with jus a dead chamber not drilled thru. I guess actually i don't really like that one as much as i do the Old R&D 6 shot conversion and would rather buy a used R&D with 6 shots than the Kirst or the New Howell 5 shot. But that's just me and what I prefer...I'm certain that the new Rem Cylinder is more beefy but not by alot and that 1 degree of slanted chambers in the old Convesion R&D ain't nothin' to worry about as they shoot just fine. I may jus' stick with my R&D 6 shot cly. for my Rogers&Spencer and the ROA 6 shot and be happy. Thanks for the Info ... and these are just my opinions on what I like, no more & no less :O) __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

May 22, 2010, 09:48 PM	#28
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	The 1 or 2 degree angle as you mentioned it to be don't mean a dang thing as it comes out the barrel...if anyone can show where it makes any differance I'd be glad to listen. Also if anyone has an R&D Conversion 6 shot Cyl. in .45Colt for a Uberti for sale let me know I'll take it. Hell I may even take a Pietta one and lap it down a few .0010".(for the right price) CAS I am told will not alow a 5 shot cylinder in competition, so I'm not sure all competition shooters will want a five shot revolver that compete. Anyone have the all the competition facts? I'd rather shoot a six shot Remington C&B with five rounds loaded and have two cylinders and shoot Frontier Class that not be able to shoot a 5 shot .45Colt in Competition at all... According to CAS rules I thought you had to have the hammer down on one empty Chamber. Have those rules changed? Just curious and putting the question out there so some Cowboy or Cowgirl don't buy something they can't use. What they should have done was made a .44 Colt... 6 shot. My inquiring mind jus' wants to know...cause they wouldn't let me shoot an 1862 Pocket Police 5 shot .36 cal rev at a CAS shoot with 5 in it and the hammer down on the safety pins. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php Last edited by Smokin_Gun; May 22, 2010 at 09:58 PM.

May 22, 2010, 10:37 PM	#29
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	Well, the Kirst 5-shot cylinder is CAS legal because that sixth chamber is there, but just a "dummy". If you look at the Howell/R&D 5-shot cylinder, there's a hole between two of the chambers for the hammer to rest. Is it the same as an empty cylinder? Well, neither is, really, but it seems to me that if the rules allow for Kirst's method, it should allow Howell's, too. If you can show that your hammer is down on that fake cylinder, it's as safe as being on an empty. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

May 22, 2010, 11:24 PM	#30
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	That makes sence to me hardcase. I bet Kenny Howell had already checked into that about the CAS rules before he made that 5 shot Conversion for the rems. Ken's a pretty sharp guy when it comes to makin' these Conversions, and I have two R&D Mfg. Cylinders and one gated .38 Kirst for a Colt. How much are them new 5 shot Cylinders goin' for now and who's sellin' um besides Kenny Howell himself, anyone know?(is there a long line to wait for them?) __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

May 26, 2010, 02:23 AM	#31
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	History on Conversions This otta be here...a lil' history on conversions... also consists of Kirst and R&D info. http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/history.html __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

May 26, 2010, 10:01 AM	#33
Fiv3 Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2010 Posts: 273	Thanks for the good read

May 26, 2010, 02:07 PM	#34
JNewell Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2000 Posts: 1,092	Seconded, good stuff - thank you.

May 27, 2010, 12:51 AM	#35
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Yur welcome Gentlemen... all I know is I like um both...I think I'd prefer an R&D 6 or Five shot as they are more authentic to the Rimfire .46 cal than the Kirst for the Remingtons. But I like the Kirst cause you can hog out the loading channel and match it to the Kirst backring and make it a five shot loader w/o removing the cylinder and with no gate. Halfway Creek Charlie built that one with the U-joint loading lever that way and it shot great. It was a Pietta that he shortened the barrel on made that u-joint lever, and put a .44Colt Kirst that took heeled bullets. We did get together one time out here in the Mojave for a great day a shootin'. I sure wish he'd show up again, he's good people. I like the gated Kirst for Colts...all I can say is you may jus' need to buy one a each :O) R&D makes gated ones too but you need a template tool to locate holes and drill the mounting screw holes out, so you need to buy the locating tool also or send the Rev to Kenny Howell. Tuff choices hope this stuff helped some __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php