Steel cased ammo in an AR

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by Metal god

Please advise what to fix ( on the rifle ) when steel cased ammo fails to extract in a properly functioning rifle which results in steel cased ammo working flawlessly from that point forward .

A barrel that reliably feeds the ammunition you are using.

Originally Posted by Metal god

Is that really an option hmm my gun wont shoot cheep steel ammo reliably , maybe I should replace the barrel ??? That does not seem reasonable to me when it's working just fine with brass . The 223 is not really designed to shoot steel cased ammo .

You requested the option for a specific and narrowly defined scenario. Whether you consider the option reasonable will depend on your judgement and circumstance.

[Metal god]

You requested the option for a specific and narrowly defined scenario

That I did and you gave me one , so there it is there . I guess it's up to others now to choose what would be best for them .

[Nathan]

Please advise what to fix ( on the rifle ) when steel cased ammo fails to extract in a properly functioning rifle which results in steel cased ammo working flawlessly from that point forward .

Clean chrome lined hf barrel. Preferably overgassed. It might help if your BCG were one of the new fancy slicked up coated ones.

Yes, it is acceptable to change your barrel to match your conditions such as running steel case. This is likely a $100-$200 barrel.

[Metal god]

How do you know changing your perfectly good barrel when using brass will help shooting steel . How do you know if the new barrel is the proper one for shooting steel ? What if the knew barrel doesn't as well ? It seems to me there are enough people saying they have issues shooting steel to conclude there is an actual issue . What that exactly is I don't know but changing out the barrel hoping you will be able to shoot steel does not sound reasonable to me .

When I asked the question it was more in asking what do you do that you know will fix the problem . Trouble shooting until you fix the problem was not what I had in mind to an other wise perfectly functioning rifle in a caliber that was never designed to use steel cases .

I think to really address this issue I would first want to know if the issue is the lack of elasticity the steel cases have compounded by a poor powder burn rate in over gassed or just gassed enough system . It literally may not be the barrel or chamber at all . My thinking is "if" the steel needs a fraction of a second longer to contract enough to be extracted reliably compared brass . A heavier buffer , buffer spring or smaller gas port or adjustable gas block may be what's needed .

I think the real issue at least for me is I've never seen any data to the "specific" reasons so many AR's have trouble shooting steel cased ammo . People have changed things out to make it work but that does not mean the underlining issue was resolved . Example : One of those builds that had the gas block misaligned and was not cycling the bolt enough . I switched out the buffer to a lighter one and the rifle worked . How ever that did not actually fix the problem . Once I readjusted the gas block I was able to put back the original buffer . Just because I resolved the issue did not mean I fixed the problem .

[Stats Shooter]

How do you know changing your perfectly good barrel when using brass will help shooting steel . How do you know if the new barrel is the proper one for shooting steel ? What if the knew barrel doesn't as well ? It seems to me there are enough people saying they have issues shooting steel to conclude there is an actual issue . What that exactly is I don't know but changing out the barrel hoping you will be able to shoot steel does not sound reasonable to me .

I can't say shooting steel cased ammo doesn't cause some issues in some guns, but between my brother, my dad, my uncle, me, and some friends there are probably 40 AR's from Noveski's and Danial defense down to Del Tons in quality and ALL of them will shoot steel cased ammo.

There are more malfunctions with steel cased ammo, and the accuracy isn't up there with the better brass stuff, but they all shoot it.

The only gun I don't know about is my Varmint AR but it's a long range tac driver so I won't even try.

But if I had a defensive AR or multi-purpose AR that wouldn't shoot steel, I would sell it or fix it. I value reliability

[Metal god]

I never meant to say any of my AR's wont shoot steel cased ammo . In fact all that I've shot steel in has fired it for the most part OK .

There are more malfunctions with steel cased ammo, and the accuracy isn't up there with the better brass stuff,

Well an honest person finally comes forth and has been my point all along . I just don't believe anyone that says they "never" have issues shooting steel , I just don't . Not only do I see it with my own rifles . I see it up and down the range . If there's a guy messing with his AR because it isn't working right . It's "ALMOST" but not always the guy shooting steel cased ammo . Then you'll hear him say it's the mag or some other convenient reason . Heck it could be the mag but only because it does not feed "steel" that well

But if I had a defensive AR or multi-purpose AR that wouldn't shoot steel, I would sell it or fix it. I value reliability

I think I understand what you're trying to say but I believe you've already concluded even you with multiple brands of AR's that you have noticed steel has more malfunctions . Is that to say any gun that has issues with steel is not all that reliable ? I think you'd agree feeding a firearm crappy ammo then blaming the firearm when it malfunctions is not the best way to evaluate a firearm . I do test commonly under/lower pressured 223 rounds in new builds to be sure they cycle the bolt but never then shoot several hundred rounds of steel to make sure they shoot that as well .

I would never consider my AR not reliable "only" because it malfunctions sometimes when shooting steel . I'd just not shoot steel . Although maybe I should make sure my light weight SHTF minimal AR does shoot steel reliable as well . You never know there may come a day that's all I have to shoot to survive , hope not

[Stats Shooter]

I think I understand what you're trying to say but I believe you've already concluded even you with multiple brands of AR's have noticed steel has more malfunctions . Is that to say any gun that has issues with steel in not all that reliable ? I think you'd agree feeding a firearm crappy ammo then blaming the firearm when it malfunctions is not the best way to evaluate a firearm . I do test commonly under/lower pressure 223 rounds in new builds to be sure they cycle the bolt but never then shoot several hundred rounds of steel to make sure they shoot that as well . I

I would never consider my AR not reliable "only" because it malfunctions sometimes when shooting steel . I'd just not shoot steel . Although maybe I should make sure my light weight SHTF minimal AR does shoot steel reliable as well . You never know there may come a day that's all I have to shoot to survive , hope not

I put in excess of 10k rounds down my Mk 18 while in the Navy. I had malfunctions now and then with mil-spec ammo . If I had to guess I'd say every 1k rounds or so I had FTE or round not completely chamber.

My side arm, the jam-o-matic Beretta M9 had a malfunction every other magazine it seemed.

My point is that all guns jam sooner or later, the key is how quickly you can clear it and get back into the fight.....if you can clear it. (Silver lining, because of my POS M9 I can clear a ftf, FTE, and a multitude of other issue with the quickness now )

And, since all semi-auto rifles malfunction now and then, the question is: what is an acceptable level of malfunction? Depends upon the application of course.

So when I say a gun will handle steel cased ammo just fine, what I'm saying is that it happens infrequently enough that I don't expect it to happen.

I have exactly two guns that are over 4,000 rounds and are yet to malfunction.. my SAIGA 308 I built from just a barreled receiver, and my S&W MP 40.

My Daniel Defense rifle among some others hasn't malfunctioned yet either,but they are under 1k rounds ATM so i don't think they qualify yet.

[simonrichter]

The more I read the more I come to the conclusion that this is not going to be much of an issue for me since I ain't planning on shooting more than say a hundred rounds a year...

[Metal god]

I ain't planning on shooting more than say a hundred rounds a year...

Then yes you're GTG , Blast away with what ever shoots in your firearm .