Faux Alpine Rifle

[taylorce1]

I'm on a quest to lighten up my daughter's elk hunting gear, as two years ago I watched her quit on her first hunt. She just wan't mentally and physically ready for this hunt in my opinion, but at 13 years old her biggest problem was mental. She's now 15 and better prepared for it and she should draw a cow tag this year second choice. However, I do believe her heavy gear that first year resulted in her giving up as well especially when she saw the terrain she'd be hunting in.

The most recent piece of equipment I invested in for her is a Howa 1500 Hogue Vias in .308 Win. A few years ago she asked me for a .308 Win but wound up with a M700 Classic in .300 Savage, that rifle weighs 8.5 lbs all up with sling, scope, and ammuniton. She absolutely loves that rifle and how well kills deer and pronghorn, and I suggested getting a lightweight stock from Manners or McMillan to lighten it up. You'd think I'd wanted to kill her puppy by wanting to remove the wood stock on her Classic!

The rifle I bought has the same barreled action that the now discontinued Howa Alpine rifle used. I had earlier this month found a guy selling a faux 7-08 Alpine, when he split it up I got the Bansner designed Alpine stock. I snagged it up and started plotting against my wife to get my daughter a lighter rifle.

So when I took off the Hogue stock I weighed it and it came in at 40 oz, the Alpine stock came in at 26 oz. So swapping the stock took a 7 lbs rifle down to 6 lbs 2 oz, and should leave her with an all up weight of less than 7.5 lbs. I'm currently waiting on the Talley lightweight scope mounts to come in, when they do she'll have a choice of scope options in VX III 1.75-6X32, Vari-X III 2.5-8X36, or VX II 3-9X40. Sportsman's had a close out Howa Alpine in .243 for $899 when I bought this rifle but I'm into the faux Alpine for about $650!



I'll post more pictures as I get the rifle put together. I figure I'll load it with the same bullets she likes to shoot out of her .300 Savage to keep recoil down, 125 grain BT and AB as well as 130 gran TTSX bullets which should server her well. I did buy 2 boxes of Nosler 125 BT grain ammo, since I don't have any .308 brass to reload yet.

[std7mag]

I can't believe you kicked your daughters puppy!!!
I'm agast!! :

I'm also really surprused you don't have any 308 casings.

I wouldn't go the 120gr Ballistic Tips for elk. The 130 TTSX ought to be good.

I've really been eying up a Weatherby Vangard in 257 WM.
But really need a new bow worse.

Maybe hopefully if the planets all align i'll draw an elk tag here in PA.
One can only hope.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by std7mag

I'm also really surprused you don't have any 308 casings.

I guess always having a .30-06 kept me from owing a. 308 Win. I've owned a ton of .243 Win rifles as well as a 7-08 Rem or .358 Win from time to time as well. The .308 casings I do own have all been fireformed into .358, and I don't want to mess with necking them back down.

When I rescued an old bubbaed Mauser 93 I built a .300 Savage out of it. That's why my daughter got a .300 Savage M700 when I was able to trade a M700 .35 Whelen for it. It was so close to the .308 as well, I didn't think we needed one. However, the ability to put together a lighter weight .300 Savage wasn't as cheap of a prospect.

[std7mag]

I can certainly understand wanting a lighter stock for your daughter.
With the Mauser coming in at 10 lbs scoped, it's not light.

I've started shaving down a foam block. Making my own carbon/kevlar stock on the basic shape of Savage's Evolution stock as on their model 93 rimfires.

Should be fun.. Lol

[GeauxTide]

Well thought out and she should love it. The 308 cruises at the top levels of the 300.

[T. O'Heir]

"...wanting to remove the wood stock on her..." The last word being the key. It's her rifle. She gets to decide, not you. Isn't you who will be shooting or carrying it around. What you want or like is irrelevant.
You have to remember that every ounce removed increases the felt recoil too.
A 150 grain bullet at 2630 FPS, out of a 7.5 pound .300 Savage rifle has 14.8 ft-lbs. of recoil energy. A 150 at 2800 FPS out of a 7.5 pound .308 has 15.8 ft-lbs. Mind you, the real issue will be finding .300 Savage ammo in small places should she ever need to do so.

[std7mag]

Oh don't worry T.O., Taylorce is definitely aware of recoil values.

Sometimes we onsetve and take action when it comes to loved ones.
While she may love the wood stocked rifle, it's weight is keeping her from doing what she wants.
Namely spending time with dad learning to hunt.

When it's just coming on 5pm during archery, you look over and your daughter is sitting there physically shivering. You wave to the deer that are just coming out, get up and leave.

Ask me how i know....

[taylorce1]

Well T.O my daughter has been shooting since she was five and killing game since she was nine. I've been teaching her to handle recoil all along the way, if I feared she couldn't handle it I wouldn't have put this rifle together. She'll have to learn to.shoot it, but I'm positive she can.

[hooligan1]

Shes definitely a fine shooting young lady.
Try some 150 grn Partitions in that rifle, should be able to push em to 2750, as close as you can get her to the elk shouldnt be any problem to let the air out of one.
The older, more experience she gets the longer she can stay with it....

[taylorce1]

.30-06

.308


.308 is lighter, that's about all I know. I hope to get to the range soon and let some lead fly.

[std7mag]

You always seem to have some beautiful, functional rifles.

What is the 06?

If you drilled out the bolt handle and fluted the bolt i'm betting you could lose that little bit of weight to match the 08.

[taylorce1]

Thanks, I think age taught me to seek beauty in function. I really can't afford to make beauty functional, I love wood stocked rifles but realize spending money on custom wood doesn't make the rifle shoot any better. The 30-06 is a M70 Classic FWT and the stock a McMillan Hunter with Edge fill. I'm not changing a thing on the 06, unless I have the stock changed from a blind mag to the factory trigger guard and floorplate. Only thing that would do for me is give me 5+1 capacity instead of the current 4+1.

[hooligan1]

Sweet!!!

[johnwilliamson062]

a 7 lbs rifle down to 6 lbs 2 oz, and should leave her with an all up weight of less than 7.5 lbs.

I did some almost lightweight backpacking some years ago. I say almost because I knew people that were spending a lot of money to drop their pack weight by an ounce. maybe $100 or more. I wasn't anywhere near that level. I know rifle weight is worse than pack weight because of how it is supported, but a one pound drop doesn't seem like much to me, at least when slung with a comfortable sling as when hiking. When slung properly a Garand isn't much worse than an AR. It is when I am holding it in my hands that I feel the weight. Sort of like concealed carry and a good holster.

Might looking at some different options for slings to carry with benefit your daughter?

In my experience most who push their recoil tolerance attempting to "learn to shoot" higher recoil end up learning to flinch.

I'm not your daughter.
I'm not her father.
I'm not even a good shooter(at least in comparison to some of the company kept on this forum).
Just some ideas you may want to consider. They may not relate to your situation.

[Model12Win]

How's the length of pull fit her?

[taylorce1]

LOP is good shes 5' 11" tall, with very long arms. If it didn't fit I'd have fixed it for her, just like I had stocks cut to fit her when she was younger.

Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062

I know rifle weight is worse than pack weight because of how it is supported, but a one pound drop doesn't seem like much to me, at least when slung with a comfortable sling as when hiking.

Saving one pound is huge when youre hiking in at an average elevation of 9,000 feet plus. It allows you to carry one more pound of water, food, or other gear. However if I can cut total weight by 5 pounds with lighter gear it's a huge boost to anyone's endurance, trust me having been a "grunt" anything you can cut weight on is a blessing.

[2damnold4this]

Good on you for fixing up a nice, light weight rifle for your daughter's elk hunt.

[johnwilliamson062]

It allows you to carry one more pound of water, food, or other gear.

A pint of water. That is what my mind immediately translated that pound into.
$650/16 ounces= $40.625/oz
That is pretty close to the ratio of going from steel to titanium tent stakes.

Buying a Kelty external frame pack was the best decision I ever made. The difference in comfort because of how I was carrying things was much larger than the small reductions in weight gained at large expense.

[Ricklin]

It's easy to postulate on rifle weight. In this case the rifle is for a young lady.

Consider for a moment her body weight vs. the weight of the rifle as a percentage.

When thought about in those terms her rifle is likely twice as heavy as your rifle.

My point. it's all relative. If she is not having fun........

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062

A pint of water. That is what my mind immediately translated that pound into.
$650/16 ounces= $40.625/oz
That is pretty close to the ratio of going from steel to titanium tent stakes.

You're approaching this all wrong, you're approaching it from camping hiking point of view. You need to approach this from a different mindset all together. That of hunting in a mountain environment, where moving quickly to get on game is sometimes needed.

The way we hunt is we get up grab our rifles and day packs, get to where we are going to glass for the morning and hike in before daylight sometimes this can be a few miles in from the trail. Once we spot an animal we want to hunt we watch it until it goes to bed, unless it's within a few hundred yards. Once the animal has gone to be that's when we move.

Usually the animal is within 3-5 miles line of sight, but that could mean anywhere from 5-10 mile hike with an elevation change of a few thousand feet. Also when you get set up for the animal to come out in the evening you might have to move rapidly in failing light to adjust for where they are, not easy to do if you're carrying a lot of gear for camping a whole week in the wilderness where you have all day to hike in a few miles.

So once you hike in to your glassing spot, find an animal, make your move, wait for it to come out, shoot it, field dress it down to what you can carry out between a couple of hunters. Then pack out all the miles you hiked in back to your truck with the extra weight of a dead animal and trophy after dark, get back to camp exhausted and get up the next day to recover the rest or hunt again. You can see where saving a pound here and there might be worth the money.

Another thing to look at and was discussed my daughter, she normally shoots a .300 Savage which has very limited ammunition choices. My daughter doesn't have any interest in reloading, and I won't be there forever to do it for her. The .308 made just made a lot of sense, it's only slightly more powerful than what she's already used to shooting and you can buy it over the counter almost everywhere. She'll still have the .300 and be able to purchase ammo online, but the .308 just makes it easier on her when she starts planning her own hunting adventures.

I don't feel that $650 is all that expensive for a quality rifle, sure I could have put her in a rifle the same weight as this one for less money. However I don't feel the rifle quality would have been as good, though the accuracy probably would have been about the same. I could have also went the other way and spent a lot more money for even more weight savings, but I felt this was the best compromise for keeping recoil tolerable for her.