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February 1, 2018, 07:11 PM | #26 | |
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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February 1, 2018, 08:08 PM | #27 |
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I have not seen anyone note a gaming context in this thread. Airsoft gaming is completely separate.
Simunitions are much more rare. If you have them great, most don't. Are you arguing nothing is better than something? If so, why? |
February 1, 2018, 08:52 PM | #28 |
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Sims are expensive and limited as to distribution. Also can one cite any evidence that well thought out air soft FOF is ineffective? Since the professional discussions are quite positive about their usage, it behooves a doubter to give some credentials and experience to back up a claim. Having been through exercises with all of them, I cannot tell the difference between each in a well planned and supervised exercise.
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February 1, 2018, 08:54 PM | #29 | |
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Simuitions are far more expensive than Airsoft and finding FoF training that uses them is much harder than getting some shooting buddies to work on tactics. While I believe that good training is worth investing in, does that mean that people who can't afford those expensive classes should just do without? As for reality, I believe that Airsoft can be even more realistic than even shooting live ammo as it can be safely done in just about any environment (private property where no one is going to call the police and say active shooter). How many of us actually have access to police style simulations (Hogan's Alley) type training? Besides, those targets don't shoot back. Who want's to repaint a building after shooting it up with simuintions? As for the whole "Not Realistic" argument, training will NEVER be fully realistic since you know you are NOT GOING TO GET SHOT! Airsoft is cheap and convenient, which allows you to train more often. Still feel Airsoft is useless?
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February 1, 2018, 09:25 PM | #30 | ||
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Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... Last edited by FireForged; February 1, 2018 at 09:33 PM. |
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February 1, 2018, 10:01 PM | #31 | |
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The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency! |
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February 1, 2018, 10:07 PM | #32 |
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The issue isn't the tool itself.
The issue is whether the people using the tool for training know what they're doing. Or whether they don't. There are a lot of very well-qualified, excellent trainers doing FOF exercises with their classes. These trainers use a wide variety of tools that include Sims, Airsoft, plain dummy guns, laser-equipped dummy guns, etc. There are also a whole metric ton of instant experts who have no idea what they're doing but think they do. These guys also use a wide variety of tools that include Sims, Airsoft, plain dummy guns, laser-equipped dummy guns, etc. This whole argument reminds me a lot of a person pointing to something across the room and trying to get their dog to look at it too. The dog just keeps looking at the person's finger, instead of what the finger is pointing toward. pax |
February 1, 2018, 10:23 PM | #33 |
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pax nailed it.
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February 1, 2018, 10:44 PM | #34 |
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Putting shots on target should be a small part of FoF training. A lot of the skills could be accomplished with a blue gun that doesn’t fire anything. When do you draw? How do you cover an aggressor? When do you shoot or not shoot? Weapon retention. To focus on the equipment too much seems to discard the valuable lessons outside of putting shots on target. As noted above a major component of these should be shoot / no shoot decision making. Simunition, airsoft, paintball, or a declared “bang” should not matter to a good portion of the training
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February 7, 2018, 02:29 PM | #35 |
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Airsoft fires a non-lethal plastic BB. But it fires it with enough velocity to have a decent ballistic profile over short distances and leave a tell-tale bruise if you're not wearing padding.
When my oldest son was a teenager he and some of his friends would do some war games in the backyard. It wasn't organized enough or serious enough to be called "training" although some lessons were clearly learned. The rules we formulated had everyone wear eye protection with just a t-shirt and shorts. All shots were to be directed to center-of-mass. When you got hit you were expected to remove yourself from the game. But, to keep everyone honest, after the game was over, everyone took off their shirt to prove they had not cheated. I liked those games because Airsoft delivered one thing other simulations don't, pain. When you get hit, it hurts. And that changed behavior. Boys who would play Hollywood and charge ahead into someone shooting at them in a laser tag game thought twice about doing that when it meant possibly getting hit with 20 Airsoft BBs. Based on that limited experience, I can certainly see how Airsoft could have a place in a well-designed training program. |
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