The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > NFA Guns and Gear

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 22, 2020, 01:17 PM   #1
rep1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Location: Mid Western Michigan
Posts: 1,187
Braced TAC-14 Question

If you have a braced TAC-14 can you leave the pistol grip and extension tube on the gun and remove the arm brace as long as the OAL of the complete gun is 26”+ and still remain non NFA.
__________________
When I ask my wife where she wants to go for dinner she just tells me where she doesn’t want to go.
rep1954 is offline  
Old November 22, 2020, 04:35 PM   #2
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 7,344
I assume a TAC-14 is an AR pistol that meets all the requirements of an AR pistol.
I'm not a lawyer,don't consider this legal advice.

Who knows where the goal posts will be moved in the future.

As I understand it,at this point an AR pistol is legit . The issue may be the brace
functioning as a shoulder stock.

Removing the brace removes that issue it would seem to me. But I'm not your friendly local BATF Agent.
HiBC is offline  
Old November 22, 2020, 04:50 PM   #3
rep1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Location: Mid Western Michigan
Posts: 1,187
No the TAC-14 is not a AR15 pistol it is listed as a “firearm”. It has a 14” smooth bore barrel and the weapon is 26”+ in length. It comes with a long non vertical grip or with a AR15 style vertical grip matched with a pistol brace.
__________________
When I ask my wife where she wants to go for dinner she just tells me where she doesn’t want to go.
rep1954 is offline  
Old November 22, 2020, 05:22 PM   #4
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 7,344
OK,I can't help you.
HiBC is offline  
Old November 23, 2020, 02:07 AM   #5
raimius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 2,154
(not a lawyer or BATFE agent)
From what I understand the length measurements are based on functional parts of the firearm. That is why the grip is rather long in some shotgun-like "non-NFA firearms." I would look at how long it is with all the required/non-folding parts. Using a non-functional extension as part of the OAL is a really gray area, and the ATF is prone to reversing their standards in very arbitrary ways.
raimius is offline  
Old November 26, 2020, 11:58 AM   #6
rep1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Location: Mid Western Michigan
Posts: 1,187
So my reason for asking is my TAC-14 has become a shorter barreled version with a SB brace. So I guess if the brace ruling changes again I will have to get a new barrel, or SBS it, or build a new raptor grip bringing it to 26” correct.
__________________
When I ask my wife where she wants to go for dinner she just tells me where she doesn’t want to go.
rep1954 is offline  
Old November 26, 2020, 08:25 PM   #7
dogtown tom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 2,747
Quote:
rep1954 So my reason for asking is my TAC-14 has become a shorter barreled version with a SB brace.
Is your OAL less than 26" with the brace at its shortest position? If so you better swap back to the birdshead pronto.
__________________
Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers)

Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
dogtown tom is offline  
Old November 26, 2020, 09:44 PM   #8
rep1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Location: Mid Western Michigan
Posts: 1,187
Quote:
Is your OAL less than 26" with the brace at its shortest position? If so you better swap back to the birdshead pronto.
My overall length is 30” but if the ATF with their latest the games takes away my brace and I put the raptor style grip on it the overall would be 25 1/2” long.
__________________
When I ask my wife where she wants to go for dinner she just tells me where she doesn’t want to go.
rep1954 is offline  
Old November 26, 2020, 10:02 PM   #9
Screwball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2012
Location: ME
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by rep1954 View Post
My overall length is 30” but if the ATF with their latest the games takes away my brace and I put the raptor style grip on it the overall would be 25 1/2” long.

You took 1/2” off the barrel?

From how I read it, remove the brace from the tube... then measure. The brace is the accessory, not the tube that it attaches to. I specifically say to yank it than collapse it, because if the brace gives you 1/2” more than the tube, ATF is likely going to go with the shorter measurement. If you have to yank the tube, shouldn’t you also yank the Raptor grip with that thought process?

If it is a folder, fold it up and measure (different from long guns, which are measured unfolded). That is where Black Aces and anyone that did a folding brace setup (myself included) got screwed over when ATF put out that letter.

I’d review that June or July 2019 ATF letter, being it did discuss the topic to the best that ATF has gone over in public.
Screwball is offline  
Old November 27, 2020, 08:32 PM   #10
rep1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Location: Mid Western Michigan
Posts: 1,187
My barrel measures 12.5” from the muzzle to the face of the bolt with the bolt forward which is how you measure barrel length. It’s odd that Remington uses the same spec’s for both the 12 and 20 ga. as they are two different frames and the 20 ga. Has a spacer so the Raptor grip will fit it as they don’t make a grip to fit it. My guns original overall length parallel to the bore of the barrel was 26 7/8”. Now if the barrel was originally 14.125” then I removed 1.5”.
__________________
When I ask my wife where she wants to go for dinner she just tells me where she doesn’t want to go.
rep1954 is offline  
Old December 6, 2020, 02:08 PM   #11
Commander47
Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2020
Location: Georgia
Posts: 23
The Mossberg Shockwave and the TAC 14 are not, technically, shotguns.

If you purchased your weapon new you got a letter stating the legality of the 14 inch barreled weapon. And it is totally legal as purchased.

IF you remove the birdseye grip from the gun, you have just committed a felony. If you replace the birdseye grip with a pistol grip you have committed a felony.

You absolutely CANNOT change the grip on this weapon and remain legal.

It's in the letter.
__________________
Retired Army, Armor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
Commander47 is offline  
Old December 6, 2020, 03:42 PM   #12
rep1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Location: Mid Western Michigan
Posts: 1,187
It seems odd that the ATF would allow Remington to sell a braced model of the Tac-14?

2B699D63-0D28-4B09-B62C-586B81E0A86D.jpeg
__________________
When I ask my wife where she wants to go for dinner she just tells me where she doesn’t want to go.
rep1954 is offline  
Old December 6, 2020, 05:09 PM   #13
dogtown tom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 2,747
Quote:
Commander47

IF you remove the birdseye grip from the gun, you have just committed a felony.....
Absolute horsehockey.
If that were true one could never swap from a plastic birdhead to a wooden one or replace a broken grip.




Quote:
You absolutely CANNOT change the grip on this weapon and remain legal.
Sure you can. You just cannot change to a grip that makes the firearm OAL less than 26" WHEN ASSEMBLED.
__________________
Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers)

Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
dogtown tom is offline  
Old December 6, 2020, 05:12 PM   #14
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander47 View Post
The Mossberg Shockwave and the TAC 14 are not, technically, shotguns.

If you purchased your weapon new you got a letter stating the legality of the 14 inch barreled weapon. And it is totally legal as purchased.

IF you remove the birdseye grip from the gun, you have just committed a felony. If you replace the birdseye grip with a pistol grip you have committed a felony.

You absolutely CANNOT change the grip on this weapon and remain legal.

It's in the letter.
Much of this is wrong. Removing the grip is not illegal.
If you replace the grip with one that makes the OAL under 26", you have committed a felony. You can change the grip however you want, as long as the OAL is 26"+.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old January 13, 2021, 03:07 PM   #15
DMK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2001
Location: Over the hills and far, far away
Posts: 3,194
I put mine (Mossberg Shockwave) on a form 1 to make it an SBS then put an actual shotgun stock on it.

I was just not comfortable with the legality of that buffer tube being removable. Unscrew the buffer tube without removing the barrel first and you've got an illegal shotgun. One can imagine an agent or LEO doing such a thing if they wished to screw you over. The $200 stamp gave me peace of mind.

That said, it's a really nice SBS. Shoots a nice tight pattern at 25y with Federal Flitecontrol.
__________________
- Homeland Security begins at home: Support your Second Amendment -
www.gunowners.org - www.saf.org - act.nraila.org - www.grnc.org
DMK is offline  
Old February 1, 2021, 08:38 PM   #16
Captains1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2009
Location: Loudoun County, VA
Posts: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander47 View Post
IF you remove the birdseye grip from the gun, you have just committed a felony. If you replace the birdseye grip with a pistol grip you have committed a felony.

You absolutely CANNOT change the grip on this weapon and remain legal.

It's in the letter.
Ummm, no.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor & RSO, IDPA Expert, Project Appleseed Rifleman
Member NRA, GOA, SAF, VCDL, LC2A
Captains1911 is offline  
Old February 2, 2021, 06:13 PM   #17
Willie Lowman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2009
Location: Uh-Hi-O
Posts: 2,790
Just form 1 it into a Short Barrel Shotgun and be done with it.

Adding a stock will make it a much better gun.
__________________
"9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens
Willie Lowman is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2020 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08232 seconds with 11 queries