April 12, 2019, 01:17 PM | #201 |
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^^^^^^^^^^
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April 12, 2019, 01:44 PM | #202 | |
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My point was if you're into reloading, and you shoot a 9mm, you'll have no shortage of free brass. |
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April 12, 2019, 03:20 PM | #203 | |
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Even if 9mm Federal lived on, the cost of ammo for it vs rimless 9mm would have made people complain they wanted to be able to shoot the cheaper rimless 9mm and eventually the cylinders would have been cut for moon clips anyway. So, right back to square one. The fact is for almost every 9mm revolver (there may be some weird ones out there) a moon clip or and sort of clip is not required to shoot them. All it does is make reloading more straightforward.
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April 12, 2019, 03:25 PM | #204 | |
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When I'm at the range, I'll scour for .38/.357 and I have a very hard time finding it. 9mm? I could fill my truck with all the cases of that I see, but problem is it's not worth my time to reload it over more expensive calibers like .32 or .45.
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April 12, 2019, 03:54 PM | #205 | |
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The ease of finding brass is irrelevant. Just don't loose you .38 Special/.357 brass and you'll be fine. You can buy 1,000 once fired .38 Special cases for $50 and be set for years. |
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April 12, 2019, 04:15 PM | #206 |
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Like I said, there may be weird ones and 9x21 revolvers aren't exactly common in the US. As for the brass, if you want to spend $50 on some once fired brass, that's fine, but if you don't want to pay anything for it, go to any shooting range and you'll have plenty of 9mm available. Could bang out a couple thousand rounds in a weekend on a progressive and not have to reload any for a revolver for months.
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April 12, 2019, 04:24 PM | #207 | |
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Agreed... Case in point, look at .45 AutoRim. I was going to pick up a few speedloaders, but not anywhere near being able to start reloading... and AutoRim ammo is PRICEY! In my converted cylinder, I could should .38 Special out of it... just going to swell/stick. Don’t think a rimmed 9mm would be that appealing, especially being I don’t think there are J-frame speedloaders for it. |
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April 12, 2019, 04:31 PM | #208 |
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Those uncommon and weird 929 and 986 S&W revolvers... OK...
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April 12, 2019, 06:29 PM | #209 |
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I have to use moonclips in my 9mm conversions.
I consider that a plus rather than a negative. |
April 12, 2019, 06:36 PM | #210 | |
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April 12, 2019, 06:43 PM | #211 |
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I use Ranch moonclips.
About $1.25 apiece. It takes about 5 minutes per clip to modify them to fit my TKC recessed cylinders. |
April 12, 2019, 06:54 PM | #212 | |
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April 12, 2019, 09:38 PM | #213 |
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The ranch clips work and are really cheap, but putting cases in and removing them is a PITA without a tool. I have to give Ruger credit for their moon clips and I've been meaning to see if cutting a slot down in the Ranch clips like where Ruger has them would improve them, but haven't found the time to do that.
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April 12, 2019, 09:51 PM | #214 |
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"but putting cases in and removing them is a PITA without a tool"
True, but they are just as easy as the other brands. I use a short 3/8" 12 point box end wrench as a tool. Also, I hit the corners with a short burst of Dremel grinding wheel to make the hulls easier to insert and extract. |
April 13, 2019, 06:39 AM | #215 |
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I use the BMT tool for my moonclips... costly, but no chance at all to bend them.
Got one in 9mm, and then the .45 for my Colt 1917 (and eventually a S&W 1917). |
April 13, 2019, 08:33 PM | #216 |
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Perfect timing. Energy doesn't matter. According to Federal who makes 357 too.
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/lu...oyees.1761712/ |
April 14, 2019, 01:02 AM | #217 | ||
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If that wasn't the case, why then .357 has a higher rate of one shot stops vs 9mm? https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alte...stopping-power
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April 14, 2019, 01:11 AM | #218 | |
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That same link shows the 380 Auto has the same one shot stop percent (44%) as the 357. Kinda shoots your idea to hell, eh? |
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April 14, 2019, 07:08 AM | #219 |
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Don't read the comments, watch the youtube from Federal.
They know what they are talking about as the largest US ammunition manufacturer... |
April 14, 2019, 07:50 AM | #220 |
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"you're releasing twice the energy in the same amount of space, so the transfer of the energy will be twice as much, which means larger stretch cavities".
Spot on. |
April 14, 2019, 10:28 AM | #221 |
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The "experts" are going to say whatever promotes their product.
Velocity doesn't matter, but expansion does? What the hey? Without enough velocity there is no expansion. |
April 14, 2019, 10:34 AM | #222 |
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All this talk of energy mattering or not... Look. People and animals are obviously not gel. However, they are made of real-world stuff. Looking at how these projectiles behave in other real-world stuff, including everything from standardized media like gel to cleverly constructed meat targets, shows that there are some differences in how they behave and what they can do.
I don't think there is much debate that most modern defensive cartridges do enough damage against hearts, brains, spinal columns, etc., at least within your average human assailant. That's great. Is there anywhere else that an assailant might be shot? Is there anywhere on the body where those differences in destructive capability might make a little difference? Is there any possible scenario in which your real-world defense might rely upon getting a shot into one of those areas on an assailant's body? Yeah, the chances of an entangled defensive encounter where a thigh, shoulder, hip, etc. is your only possible target might be small. For many of us, our chances of getting into any defensive encounter in which we'd need to defend our lives with a firearm is small. Yet most of the people participating in this thread probably go through the trouble of carrying a firearm daily and doing everything else that goes along with that. |
April 14, 2019, 10:40 AM | #223 | |
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April 14, 2019, 01:11 PM | #224 | |
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We don't know the dynamics of every single shooting in that study, we can't determine who was the one pulling the trigger and how effective THEY were as shooters, but we can see that .357 had the lowest failure to incapacitate of all the handgun calibers. and you said I cherry picked...
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April 14, 2019, 01:12 PM | #225 | |
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