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Old April 12, 2019, 01:17 PM   #201
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Old April 12, 2019, 01:44 PM   #202
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Because reloaders with revolvers don't have to chase their brass. They dump it into their collection container.
Then it looks like 100% of revolver shooters are reloaders.

My point was if you're into reloading, and you shoot a 9mm, you'll have no shortage of free brass.
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Old April 12, 2019, 03:20 PM   #203
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I do wonder, if 9mm from a revolver (snub nose only, apparently) is the bees knees, and the best thing since canned beer, sliced bread and girls who smell good, why did the 9mm Federal go bust???
Because you couldn't shoot it in an autoloader like 9x19 can. The main reason tho was that 9mm Federal was, IIRC, only available in Charter Arms revolvers and when the company went out of business in the early 90s, there were so few revolvers available in 9mm Federal that Federal couldn't make a profit off making the ammo anymore, so they stopped.

Even if 9mm Federal lived on, the cost of ammo for it vs rimless 9mm would have made people complain they wanted to be able to shoot the cheaper rimless 9mm and eventually the cylinders would have been cut for moon clips anyway. So, right back to square one.

The fact is for almost every 9mm revolver (there may be some weird ones out there) a moon clip or and sort of clip is not required to shoot them. All it does is make reloading more straightforward.
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Old April 12, 2019, 03:25 PM   #204
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If you're a brass rat you'll probably find over a thousand 9mm casings for every .38 SPL.
This is true. When I'm at any of the handgun ranges at my range, 9mm is the most common centerfire cartridge I see with .45 ACP being second and I rarely, RARELY ever see someone shooting a revolver. If they are, it's a .22.

When I'm at the range, I'll scour for .38/.357 and I have a very hard time finding it. 9mm? I could fill my truck with all the cases of that I see, but problem is it's not worth my time to reload it over more expensive calibers like .32 or .45.
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Old April 12, 2019, 03:54 PM   #205
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The fact is for almost every 9mm revolver (there may be some weird ones out there) a moon clip or and sort of clip is not required to shoot them. All it does is make reloading more straightforward.
That's not true for S&W 9mm revolvers unless you're using 9x21 brass.

The ease of finding brass is irrelevant. Just don't loose you .38 Special/.357 brass and you'll be fine. You can buy 1,000 once fired .38 Special cases for $50 and be set for years.
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Old April 12, 2019, 04:15 PM   #206
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That's not true for S&W 9mm revolvers unless you're using 9x21 brass.

The ease of finding brass is irrelevant. Just don't loose you .38 Special/.357 brass and you'll be fine. You can buy 1,000 once fired .38 Special cases for $50 and be set for years.
Like I said, there may be weird ones and 9x21 revolvers aren't exactly common in the US. As for the brass, if you want to spend $50 on some once fired brass, that's fine, but if you don't want to pay anything for it, go to any shooting range and you'll have plenty of 9mm available. Could bang out a couple thousand rounds in a weekend on a progressive and not have to reload any for a revolver for months.
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Old April 12, 2019, 04:24 PM   #207
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Because you couldn't shoot it in an autoloader like 9x19 can. The main reason tho was that 9mm Federal was, IIRC, only available in Charter Arms revolvers and when the company went out of business in the early 90s, there were so few revolvers available in 9mm Federal that Federal couldn't make a profit off making the ammo anymore, so they stopped.



Even if 9mm Federal lived on, the cost of ammo for it vs rimless 9mm would have made people complain they wanted to be able to shoot the cheaper rimless 9mm and eventually the cylinders would have been cut for moon clips anyway. So, right back to square one.



The fact is for almost every 9mm revolver (there may be some weird ones out there) a moon clip or and sort of clip is not required to shoot them. All it does is make reloading more straightforward.


Agreed...

Case in point, look at .45 AutoRim. I was going to pick up a few speedloaders, but not anywhere near being able to start reloading... and AutoRim ammo is PRICEY!

In my converted cylinder, I could should .38 Special out of it... just going to swell/stick. Don’t think a rimmed 9mm would be that appealing, especially being I don’t think there are J-frame speedloaders for it.
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Old April 12, 2019, 04:31 PM   #208
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Those uncommon and weird 929 and 986 S&W revolvers... OK...
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Old April 12, 2019, 06:29 PM   #209
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I have to use moonclips in my 9mm conversions.
I consider that a plus rather than a negative.
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Old April 12, 2019, 06:36 PM   #210
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As for the brass, if you want to spend $50 on some once fired brass, that's fine, but if you don't want to pay anything for it, go to any shooting range and you'll have plenty of 9mm available. Could bang out a couple thousand rounds in a weekend on a progressive and not have to reload any for a revolver for months.
If you think spending $50 on brass is bad wait until you price how much the moonclips cost. Have you ever even shot a 9mm revolver?
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Old April 12, 2019, 06:43 PM   #211
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I use Ranch moonclips.
About $1.25 apiece.
It takes about 5 minutes per clip to modify them to fit my TKC recessed cylinders.
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Old April 12, 2019, 06:54 PM   #212
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The ease of finding brass is irrelevant. Just don't loose you .38 Special/.357 brass and you'll be fine. You can buy 1,000 once fired .38 Special cases for $50 and be set for years.
That reply is irrelevant.
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Old April 12, 2019, 09:38 PM   #213
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I use Ranch moonclips.
About $1.25 apiece.
It takes about 5 minutes per clip to modify them to fit my TKC recessed cylinders.
The ranch clips work and are really cheap, but putting cases in and removing them is a PITA without a tool. I have to give Ruger credit for their moon clips and I've been meaning to see if cutting a slot down in the Ranch clips like where Ruger has them would improve them, but haven't found the time to do that.
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Old April 12, 2019, 09:51 PM   #214
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"but putting cases in and removing them is a PITA without a tool"

True, but they are just as easy as the other brands.
I use a short 3/8" 12 point box end wrench as a tool.
Also, I hit the corners with a short burst of Dremel grinding wheel to make the hulls easier to insert and extract.
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Old April 13, 2019, 06:39 AM   #215
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I use the BMT tool for my moonclips... costly, but no chance at all to bend them.

Got one in 9mm, and then the .45 for my Colt 1917 (and eventually a S&W 1917).
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Old April 13, 2019, 08:33 PM   #216
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Perfect timing. Energy doesn't matter. According to Federal who makes 357 too.

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/lu...oyees.1761712/
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Old April 14, 2019, 01:02 AM   #217
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Perfect timing. Energy doesn't matter. According to Federal who makes 357 too.

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/lu...oyees.1761712/
From one poster:
Quote:
For pistols:
- muzzle energy is meaningless
- penetration and expansion are all that count.
- caliber and speed is only important to the extent it affects penetration and expansion.
Muzzle energy is not meaningless. If you had a bullet that had 300 ft/lbs and penetrated 15 inches and expanded 1.5 times the original diameter and you had another that was 600 ft/lbs, also penetrated 15 inches and expanded 1.5 times, you're releasing twice the energy in the same amount of space, so the transfer of the energy will be twice as much, which means larger stretch cavities.

If that wasn't the case, why then .357 has a higher rate of one shot stops vs 9mm?

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alte...stopping-power
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Old April 14, 2019, 01:11 AM   #218
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From one poster:

Muzzle energy is not meaningless. If you had a bullet that had 300 ft/lbs and penetrated 15 inches and expanded 1.5 times the original diameter and you had another that was 600 ft/lbs, also penetrated 15 inches and expanded 1.5 times, you're releasing twice the energy in the same amount of space, so the transfer of the energy will be twice as much, which means larger stretch cavities.

If that wasn't the case, why then .357 has a higher rate of one shot stops vs 9mm?

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alte...stopping-power
Egads. Talk about cherry picking. And rather biased and blind.

That same link shows the 380 Auto has the same one shot stop percent (44%) as the 357. Kinda shoots your idea to hell, eh?
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Old April 14, 2019, 07:08 AM   #219
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Don't read the comments, watch the youtube from Federal.

They know what they are talking about as the largest US ammunition manufacturer...
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Old April 14, 2019, 07:50 AM   #220
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"you're releasing twice the energy in the same amount of space, so the transfer of the energy will be twice as much, which means larger stretch cavities".

Spot on.
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Old April 14, 2019, 10:28 AM   #221
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The "experts" are going to say whatever promotes their product.

Velocity doesn't matter, but expansion does? What the hey? Without enough velocity there is no expansion.
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Old April 14, 2019, 10:34 AM   #222
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All this talk of energy mattering or not... Look. People and animals are obviously not gel. However, they are made of real-world stuff. Looking at how these projectiles behave in other real-world stuff, including everything from standardized media like gel to cleverly constructed meat targets, shows that there are some differences in how they behave and what they can do.

I don't think there is much debate that most modern defensive cartridges do enough damage against hearts, brains, spinal columns, etc., at least within your average human assailant. That's great. Is there anywhere else that an assailant might be shot? Is there anywhere on the body where those differences in destructive capability might make a little difference? Is there any possible scenario in which your real-world defense might rely upon getting a shot into one of those areas on an assailant's body?

Yeah, the chances of an entangled defensive encounter where a thigh, shoulder, hip, etc. is your only possible target might be small. For many of us, our chances of getting into any defensive encounter in which we'd need to defend our lives with a firearm is small. Yet most of the people participating in this thread probably go through the trouble of carrying a firearm daily and doing everything else that goes along with that.
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Old April 14, 2019, 10:40 AM   #223
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Yeah, the chances of an entangled defensive encounter where a thigh, shoulder, hip, etc. is your only possible target might be small.
There are some combat instructors who teach that a hip shot is a good shot. Hitting someone in the hip isn't guaranteed to take them completely out of the fight, but it will remove or significantly degrade their mobility.
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Old April 14, 2019, 01:11 PM   #224
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Egads. Talk about cherry picking. And rather biased and blind.

That same link shows the 380 Auto has the same one shot stop percent (44%) as the 357. Kinda shoots your idea to hell, eh?
So you're going to sell the .357's you have for a Walther PPK? Good luck Mr. Bond.

We don't know the dynamics of every single shooting in that study, we can't determine who was the one pulling the trigger and how effective THEY were as shooters, but we can see that .357 had the lowest failure to incapacitate of all the handgun calibers.

and you said I cherry picked...
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Old April 14, 2019, 01:12 PM   #225
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There are some combat instructors who teach that a hip shot is a good shot. Hitting someone in the hip isn't guaranteed to take them completely out of the fight, but it will remove or significantly degrade their mobility.
The hips and pelvic girdle are structurally important. Mechanical damage to these areas could stop an attacker from advancing or allow you to escape. This is an example of the kinds of cases where a little more power could come in handy. At the very least, it wouldn't hurt to have a few more ft-lbs on your side for such a shot.
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