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Old April 1, 2019, 09:35 PM   #26
Blue1
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meh

9mm barely cuts it in a semi-auto; .40, .45 (either one) and 10mm cleans its clock. It only slightly edges out the .38 special ballistically, so what is the point in a revolver?

Why would anyone want a 9mm revolver when a .357 mag is a similar caliber, and absolutely smokes that 9mm cartridge?

Nothing against those that want one for whatever reason, but it isn't for me.
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Old April 1, 2019, 10:32 PM   #27
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Why would anyone want a 9mm revolver when a .357 mag is a similar caliber, and absolutely smokes that 9mm cartridge?
When was the last time you shot four boxes of .357 Mag from a lightweight snub and enjoyed it (or shot them and didn't enjoy it)?
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Old April 1, 2019, 11:44 PM   #28
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^This. .357 Mag is overkill in a snub revolver and the point is to stop an attacker and not get hurt, not kill bears.

9mm is superior to .38 Special in certain loadings, some 158 grain .38 loads may have more energy, but they'll also have a LOT more felt recoil too.

With how low 9mm ammo prices are compared to .38, it's a superior choice in a snub revolver.
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Old April 2, 2019, 03:32 AM   #29
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Well if you have the cash to spend a Phillips and Rodgers M47 Medusa, it will shoot 380 ACP all way to 357 Mag and everything in between, or at least one of the conversion cylinders they made as aswell.
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Old April 2, 2019, 07:16 AM   #30
wild cat mccane
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9mm actually smokes almost all of the 357 rounds. There aren't many 357 rounds that do better than the 9mm HST/Gold Dot/Ranger:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...llistic-tests/
Vs
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/


And recall, there really aren't that many 357 mag defense bullets. Gold Dot 357 runs $50 for a box of 50.
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Old April 2, 2019, 09:02 AM   #31
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9mm actually smokes almost all of the 357 rounds.
What have you been smoking??
Find me ONE 9mm round that will yield 625 ME foot pounds out of any revolver?

The major "boutique" manufactureres all will get close to this, Underwood, Double tap and Buffalobore.

180 grain at 1250 fps out of a 1 7/8" LCR!
Chronographed and recorded on video.
You notice that Chris didn't chron any BB loads to prove his point!
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Old April 2, 2019, 10:36 AM   #32
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9mm barely cuts it in a semi-auto; .40, .45 (either one) and 10mm cleans its clock. It only slightly edges out the .38 special ballistically, so what is the point in a revolver?

Why would anyone want a 9mm revolver when a .357 mag is a similar caliber, and absolutely smokes that 9mm cartridge?
You've already got some good answers but consider this:

First, let's accept that .357 magnum can be brutal for a lot of people in pocketable alloy or composite revolvers. By "brutal", I mean markedly unpleasant to shoot and harder to shoot both accurately and quickly. That might be fine in a "get off me" scenario when you are just emptying a cylinder into the guts or appendages of someone or something that is right on top of you. In fact, that's one place where the power differences between handgun calibers and their respective abilities to inflict mechanical damage might matter.

Of course, that is only one kind of defensive encounter. We know that other encounters requiring marksmanship and rapid shooting do occur. In those cases, there can be advantages to 9mm and .327 Federal. Both can offer more power than .38 special with less recoil than .357 magnum.

So, why not just carry .40, .45, or 10mm? Well, those tend to involve bigger firearms. Even the small 9mm semi-autos can be more challenging to carry versus an alloy J-frame or LCR. (Small guns is the reason why .380 auto remains as popular as it is, despite relatively widespread performance concerns.) What I have found is that in many types of pants, an LCR or alloy J-frame is the biggest gun that can ride comfortably and draw easily from a pocket holster.
.

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Old April 2, 2019, 10:49 AM   #33
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But....a .357 revolver offers a much wider range of POTENTIAL than any 9mm revolver.

Unless you reload, there are very few commerial 9mm powder puff loads, because they are designed for semi autos that can't take very reduced loads. So thereby reducing the selection of low power loads. There are no 9mm loads that will approach the maximum 180 grain .357 woods loads for revolvers, so that limits the upper range of 9mm.

So a .357 offers the maximum range of soft to hot.

While quick followup shots are the rage in the run and gun game community, a self defense senario might require a more deligent approach to shoot and access. Especially with a five shot revolver, it might not be so advantageous to shoot all your loads so fast!
Remember, one good shot is worth more than two quick misses or poorly placed shots. So recoil control might not be the end all to decision about the caliber that you choose.

The power of the round should have no effect on accuracy, unless you are prone to flinching.

My daily carry is a .357 revolver because I live in the woods, and 4 legged creatures are as much a threat as anything else. In the summer I have one shot shell, three SD .38 +P and one 2 .357 BB woods in the cylinder to cover the wide range of applications.
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Old April 2, 2019, 11:37 AM   #34
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A 9mm revolver sounds like “non-alcohol beer” or “low fat ice cream.” All I wonder is “why???”
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Old April 2, 2019, 11:49 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
But....a .357 revolver offers a much wider range of POTENTIAL than any 9mm revolver.

Unless you reload, there are very few commerial 9mm powder puff loads, because they are designed for semi autos that can't take very reduced loads. So thereby reducing the selection of low power loads. There are no 9mm loads that will approach the maximum 180 grain .357 woods loads for revolvers, so that limits the upper range of 9mm.

So a .357 offers the maximum range of soft to hot.

While quick followup shots are the rage in the run and gun game community, a self defense senario might require a more deligent approach to shoot and access. Especially with a five shot revolver, it might not be so advantageous to shoot all your loads so fast!
Remember, one good shot is worth more than two quick misses or poorly placed shots. So recoil control might not be the end all to decision about the caliber that you choose.

The power of the round should have no effect on accuracy, unless you are prone to flinching.

My daily carry is a .357 revolver because I live in the woods, and 4 legged creatures are as much a threat as anything else. In the summer I have one shot shell, three SD .38 +P and one 2 .357 BB woods in the cylinder to cover the wide range of applications.
That's true, but nobody is asking for the 9mm revolvers to offer us a mouse fart load up to 180 grain hammers. When people are looking for a 9mm revolver for defense they are looking for it to be reliable and be easier to shoot than .357, whilst being able to shoot a lot and save money on cheaper ammo.

They're fun plinkers too and I would only recommend a 9mm revolver that's larger than a snub solely for plinking. Any other reason and a longer barrel .357 is better.

IMO, 9mm snubs are the best snubs for the caliber and may be the best snub revolver caliber, but the jury is still out for me as .327 snubs have a lot of good aspects too.

As to how fast the follow up shots can be with 9mm vs .357, you don't get the choice of knowing beforehand what you'll have to do. The good thing with either is if you put the bullet in the right spot, it's irrelevant what you're shooting.

.357 may have certain high end loads that beat 9mm in a snub, but I question how necessary they are when 9mm is plenty adequate.
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Old April 2, 2019, 12:58 PM   #36
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Quote:
9mm actually smokes almost all of the 357 rounds.

Er, ok.....
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Old April 2, 2019, 01:05 PM   #37
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9mm actually smokes almost all of the 357 rounds.
Only in a pipe dream.
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Old April 2, 2019, 02:39 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
9mm actually smokes almost all of the 357 rounds.
I would agree that there's a least a little truth to this if you limit the discussion to standard factory loads and a shoot the 357 out of a snub. Bump the barrel length up or go to one of the boutique loads and you can extend a 357 beyond any 9mm. There are certainly issues to consider about how well most folks can shoot one of those boutique 357 loads out of a snub or how much those boutique loads cost but those are separate issues.

As far as the original point of the thread goes, I see some of the appeal to a 9mm revolver when you think about the cost of factory ammo and hitting that sweet spot in effectiveness versus shootability that many of us really like about 9mm. I personally think a semi-auto is a better self defense platform so I don't see much appeal to a 9mm revolver, though.
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Old April 2, 2019, 05:39 PM   #39
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I think I had already addressed some of HighValleyRanch's points by the time he finished writing them. =P As far as offering a wide range for hand-loaders, that point might be valid for hand-loaders. That sounds a bit to me like the pitch that .327 is awesome because people who don't hand-load can choose from a whole bunch of .32-caliber cartridges developed within the last hundred years or so. It's a wonderful thing for the people who want to take advantage of it.

That said, 9mm revolvers can be great for the people who want to take advantage of them. Sure, moon clips might be something to think about. If that's okay, why not enjoy the benefits I mentioned earlier? It's not my cup of tea but I might choose that over a .380 pocket gun.
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Old April 2, 2019, 11:01 PM   #40
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That's strange. I made the statement more 9mm rounds outperform 357 rounds and posted tests proving it.

Maybe I should go back to my original post and check my sourced data supporting my claim that 9mm outperforms most 357 rounds and that there are better 9mm bullets that aren't available in 357...Maybe *I* need to learn more before I speak.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...llistic-tests/

vs

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/
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Old April 3, 2019, 09:14 AM   #41
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Maybe your source just happens to sell ammo, and maybe there are a lot more 9mm's out there than .357s.
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Old April 3, 2019, 09:47 AM   #42
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^^^^^^^^^^
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Old April 3, 2019, 01:25 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Carmady View Post
Maybe your source just happens to sell ammo, and maybe there are a lot more 9mm's out there than .357s.
Lucky Gunner has been spending a lot of money on their ballistic gel tests and youtube videos for a couple years now, I get no sense they're trying to steer people to buying one product they sell over another.

Let's leave the conspiracy crap on Twitter.
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Old April 3, 2019, 01:33 PM   #44
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Why would anyone want a 9mm revolver when a .357 mag is a similar caliber, and absolutely smokes that 9mm cartridge
Why would anyone want a .357 Mag when the .41 Mag is similarish and absolutely smokes the .357?

Because the thing about what other people choose... is it has virtually no impact on your ability to make the choice you want to.
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Old April 3, 2019, 03:40 PM   #45
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Lucky Gunner has been spending a lot of money on their ballistic gel tests and youtube videos for a couple years now...
A couple of years experience hardly makes them experts. Imo, any game that proves 9mm smokes .357 must be played with loaded dice.
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Old April 3, 2019, 04:30 PM   #46
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A couple of years experience hardly makes them experts. Imo, any game that proves 9mm smokes .357 must be played with loaded dice.

You have their test results, and can form your own opinion...

Sorry, but not seeing them being experts from that. Draw your own conclusions. But I can say, shooting a 9mm revolver (an Airweight, for my example) is not something most people do. I’ve heard people say .38+P is too much, and sometimes that 9mm is terrible. Never hear people say .357 Magnum is easy to shoot. Haven’t had any issues with my 9mm revolver. Ballistics are definitely important... being able to shoot it is likely just as important, for obvious reasons.

That being said, I’ve been up in Maine since Saturday. All that time, I’ve been carrying my 642-1, converted to 9mm. Hornady 147 grain XTP... very happy with the load, and works better than the .38+P I original used. Tip, Hornady crimps are awesome for 9mm revolvers. Shot like four cylinders to test one round, and no movement at all.

In regards to the revolver, I removed it once; mailed a package from the Post Office. Comfortable, and easily carrying 20 rounds of 9mm on me (full gun, three moonclips in weak side pocket).

Since it usually comes up on how my gun is going to blow up in my hands... I bought an older M&P up here (1920ish production), as I have a FFL-03. I downloaded the Supica/Nahas book on S&W firearms... mainly to have a source of info after trying to scramble to figure out what I was looking at with the revolver I was purchasing. Has a good deal of info on the 1917, which I’ll likely be buying after I get situated up in Maine... but I bring it up for this little blurb about the 942.





Heard the story a few times, but seeing the revolver pictured and authored information... I feel is a bit more interesting. My gun is identical to that prototype... just no porting and coated in NP3 Plus.
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Old April 3, 2019, 04:32 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Carmady View Post
A couple of years experience hardly makes them experts. Imo, any game that proves 9mm smokes .357 must be played with loaded dice.
Ah, you're a conspiracy theorest. Duly noted.
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Old April 3, 2019, 07:03 PM   #48
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The conspiracy thickens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2t_qG9dls
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Old April 3, 2019, 07:51 PM   #49
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Paul Harrell and Chris Baker are quoted more than anyone else on the internet!
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Old April 4, 2019, 06:02 AM   #50
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@wild cat....thanks for the data. What all have to realize is that 9,40 & 45 are getting the bulk of the ammo company’s attention. So that is how 1000 FPS 9 does what 1400 FPS 357 can do.

I get the case for 9mm revolver, but does anybody make that gun? Seriously, the case is for a 6 shot 3” bbl med weight 30oz belt gun with moon clips and preferably top break that auto ejects the moon clip/cases. It needs big sights with fo and tritium front option. It needs a dlc finish and durable lockwork. It needs 6 shots.
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