How many times to use the brass

[AxlMyk]

How many times, on average, do you reload the brass?
Do you keep say 1,000 reloads separate from another 1,000, counting how many reloads they've gone through?

I am considering getting into reloading. Considering. I would get set up for 9mm Luger. But I need to figure out if it will be economical to do so. I shoot 200-250 rds/week.

The initial outlay will of course be a bit sizable, but when does it become economical to make the investment? I can get reloads at the range for $70/250.

In the meantime, I'm saving my brass from the range.

[alexcue]

Reloads possible with brass can vary quite a bit. Depends on how hot your loads are to begin with. I have tended to shy away from full bore (+p) loads. My days of firing HOT .357mags and .44mags are pretty much over. Those loads worked the brass quite a bit. .44 were very noticeable, as they stretched quite a bit. It had to be trimmed after a few firings, and that means the brass was thinning. Having said that, I'm still reloading those with lighter loads up to 10 times ~ according to my records.

9mm can be reloaded quite a few times, but range pickups can be affected by what gun they came from. Some of my personal reloads are up over 20, but I check them carefully for cracking. I shoot several calibers, and have yet to throw away that much brass... but I have some .45's that have been mangled quite a bit so they've gone to recycling pile. Since sometimes I pick up more than I shoot, i check them all to make sure they are usable.

Rifle is a whole other matter.... some can only go about 4 or 5 times, depends on how you reload them neck or FL resizing. Also the caliber itself has a lot to do with it. YMMV is the operative statement here.

[Chainsaw.]

For 9mm you'll be a while before you notice any issues withneck tension.

Most definitely economical. If your shooting 1000 rounds a month Id suggest a progressive press.

[9x45]

Axl, $14 per box of range reloads? You can load for half of that right away. Case life depends on the caliber, .45acp can go hundreds of cycles because of the low pressure, 9mm Major (125gr going over 1,320 fps) is usually one time. 9mm standard loads, you will loose the brass before you can count how many.

[JeepHammer]

I keep 'Fresh', or once fired for my 'Match' loads,
You don't want any issues at all in a match.

Everything else, practice/plinking, ect, AFTER the first RELOAD/firing, its 'General Use' with pistol brass.
And I don't bother to keep track.
When they crack, or primer pockets get loose, fail inspection in any other way, I toss em. No big loss.

Some brands/batches last 5 or 6 loadings,
Some last 9 or 10,
There is just no way of telling how long a brass is going to last with shooting it to the failure point... No pre-determined number of loadings.

When you have REALLY clean cases, you can look down in them and actually see the 'Warble' in the case wall when it thins, an indicator its reaching the end of its life span,
But 99% of the time crimping starts a crack in the case neck before the case wall thins to the point of failure.

Case neck cracks are easy to spot, and since they usually crack when firing, it doesn't damage anything, and you get the maximum life out of the brass.

Since you are new to this,
The way to get a few extra loadings out of auto pistol brass is to 'Sneak Up' on the crimp...
Use as little crimp as it takes to keep the bullet in the case and not have magazine or feed malfunctions.

The same is true with flaring the case neck to accept the bullet,
Sneak up on that too.

Both processes work the case neck, 'Work Hardening' the brass,
The less you work harden, the longer it 'Generally' takes for the brass to crack,
The more uses you get from the case.

[g.willikers]

Yes, it very much depends on the caliber and loads as to how long brass can last.
Since you mentioned 9mm, here's my experience with two favorite loads:
124 grain round nose lead at 1250 f/s (for knocking down the full sized pepper poppers) - at least ten times.
147 grain truncated cone lead at 1050 f/s - fifteen times plus.
Both had mostly more loose primer pockets than case crackings.

For reference, .45 acp, 200 grain semi wadcutters at 850 f/s - seemingly endless, 25, 30, lost count.
They can go so long that the headstamps are unreadable.

You'll probably loose more pistol brass in the weeds than from use.

[AxlMyk]

Great info, guys. Appreciate it.

My Wife tap dances with a gal whose hubby reloads. The girls are going to set a date for us to visit, and Roger will show me his setup. I have no idea what equipment he has. He doesn't do 9mm, as he doesn't own a 9mm gun. But he does have the dies for my 45ACP. I have about 200 45 cases I'll take with me.

I'll probably make the decision when I have a few thousand empties. He, as well as I, will keep an eye open for a deal on good used equipment. New if need be. CL can be pretty active around here.

[Toney]

My 45acp brass lasts pretty much until they get lost, my hot 270 loads make about 4 reloads until I crush the necks and throw them in the scrap bucket.

[T. O'Heir]

Case life is entirely dependant on the load used.(even using hot .270 loads you really should be getting more than 4 reloads though). Plus a bit of what brand. Federal is known for being softer than other brands. That means its primer pockets get enlarged(the primary reason pistol brass "goes bad") quicker.
However, reloading isn't about saving money. It's about using the best possible ammo in your firearms.

[Clark]

I started out reloading in 1999 in doing 223, 308, and 44 mag, in part because factory ammo was so expensive, inaccurate, and wimpy.

So far I have not been organizationally capable of segregating a batch of brass to each other or to a rifle. I could do it if were to scale back the scope of range trips, like take one gun to the range and then write up a range report. As it is, I am forgetting to take things to the range and forgetting to bring everything back. My curiosity overrides common sense on loading up trips with extra guns and tests.

[reddog81]

The problem with reloading for 9mm is that the cost is almost as expensive as buying new. You can get factory 115 grn new blazer brass for $.20 per round. You're going to spend about $.10 per bullet and $.05 for the primer and powder on your reloads.

I reload 9mm because I cast my own bullets and that drops the cost to about $.02 per bullet. Also you can tailor the loads to light target loads or go for heavy loads.

If you're reloading 1,000 rounds per month that's going to be about 10 hours of time you will need per month if you get a single stage press. I can maybe do 100 rounds per hour if i'm moving quickly. A progressive press should get you closer to 300 rounds per hour if your moving quickly.

Reloading is a fun hobby itself but i certainly would start reloading to try and save money if you're only doing 9mm. If you compare the costs of more expensive ammo like 44 Mag, 357, 30-06, and even 45ACP the payback is much easier to justify.

[chris in va]

Please don't think you have to spend $300+ on reloading equipment to load 1000/mo. Not saying you have to go this route but I started with a Hand Press and never felt the need to 'upgrade' to a turret press.

I like to reload while watching a movie or the usual Fox News. Kinda hard to do that with a heavy bench press.

[Ozzieman]

For 9mm I can buy 9mm bullets for 7 cents apiece (lead)
http://www.pennbullets.com/9mm/9mm-caliber.html
The last time I purchased primers (last winter) I got 5000 Winchester primers at 48$ per 1000 or 4.8 cents.
There are 7000 GR to a pound and my reloads use around 5 per 9mm of Win 231. I don’t remember what I paid for the last 8 pound can but Midway USA has 1 pound for 25.99 plus shipping and hazmat adds another 30$ so 55.99 a pound which is 3.999 cents per round so that adds up to
0.1579 per round or 7.895$ per 50.
Around here we can’t buy 9mm for less than 15 $ on a good day so I disagree that you can buy cheaper than reload. It does take a lot of time but
For me it’s the relaxation and the pride of making a better product than cheep white box ammo.
But I will add this. Even cheaper you don’t save any money, you just shoot a lot more. The other good point is that instead of going out and buying several cases of 9mm (PMC 115 FR FMJ is 259 per 1000 plus shipping??? Which is 25.9 cents per round) you can go to your wife and just say “Honey I need _ _ _ _ _ for only 72 $ to reload.”
Much easier.

[Ozzieman]

Dual and I don't know why

[reddog81]

I never said new was cheaper than reloading but it's pretty close. Selway armory has blazer brass 115 grn for 9.99 per 50. Remanufactured or steel cases is cheaper yet. If you are reloading 9mm to save money you'd better value your time at less than minimum wage otherwise the numbers aren't in your favor. I'm all for people reloading but unrealistic expectations aren't going to be helpful.

For any other cartridge the numbers are easier to justify but there are so many cheap 9mm manufacturers out there.

If you want to reload because you enjoy it, want to tailor loads to you specific needs, or because you cast your own lead and can make rounds for cheaper than you can buy 22lr rounds that's great.

[AxlMyk]

Even cheaper you don’t save any money, you just shoot a lot more.

Good point.

I'm all for people reloading but unrealistic expectations aren't going to be helpful.

So true. I've been reading all the replies, and doing the math.
The time involved is not a factor as I'm retired. It will be the supplies I need to figure.

Judging from a few ammo suppliers online, 1,000 factory rds for $210 is a good price compared to the last 1,000 I bought. That's the last time I shop at Guns Galore in Fenton, Mi. Then there is shipping for on-line orders, which I haven't figured in yet.. What is it, $20-$30?

I get reloads at the range for $70/250 as I stated in my OP. So $280/1,000.
Cheaper than the Fiocchi I bought by $80.

I believe the girls are going to set up a date for next weekend, and I'll discuss it with Roger. In the meantime, I have my CPL class this Saturday, and assuming I pass that, I'll get to the county clerk for the license. And of course, there will be some more range time.

Thanks, guys.

[Sport45]

I make no attempt at keeping track of how many times I reload 9mm brass. It all gets tossed into the same bucket after cleaning to be used again.

[Metal god]

Pistol brass will last quite awhile . I to am loosing they before they go bad .

Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and laxative on the same night.

and that right there made me laugh out loud

[oldengineer]

I'm a little older and started shooting pistol last June. I started with a Springfield XD9 purchased from Cabellas. I joined the local rod and gun club and have subsequently purchased a Beretta M9, CZ (Serbia) 999 9mm, Sig Sauer P229 with both 9mm and 40 S&W top ends and just got a Walther PPS M2 that I will use as a carry if the need ever arises. These 4 guns were all bought from the local gun shop which I found out was better in price than Cabellas and also provided good advice and service. I had a Powder River Ultimate Match Competition Trigger Kit put into the XD9 and it has improved my ability to shoot it accurately 10X.

I also reload my 9 and 40 S&W loads on a Dillon RL550B presspurchased after talking with the handgunner. It's a little pricey but I like it for it's reliability and accuracy. I don't fool around with loads yet so once I've got it set up for a caliber I can make 1 or 200 rounds easily without swapping out dies. I use Xtreme copper plated 115 and 155 gr RN(FP) bullets, 4.3 gr and 5.5 gr Titegroup, and CCI 500 small pistol primers, 12 cents and 15 cents a shot. My .02, from a new but enthusiastic shooter.

[45_auto]

Originally Posted by reddog81

If you are reloading 9mm to save money you'd better value your time at less than minimum wage otherwise the numbers aren't in your favor.

I'd love to see your numbers. After almost 20 years on gun forums, I have yet to see anyone making this claim back it up with actual numbers.

My numbers show my time value to be about $30 per hour reloading 9mm and about $60 per hour reloading 45 ACP.

I put together a spreadsheet awhile back after a discussion with another member who wanted to add in cost of anything he could think of like additional insurance due to reloading ($0 in my case) and the cost of reloading floorspace (again $0 in my case), screenshots below. Feedback welcomed.

I based the machinery amortization per round on the current number of rounds through my Dillon 650 (purchased in early 1990's) at the time, and included a very generous equipment cost of $2000 to make him happy.

9mm at a cost to reload of $.11 per round, using a commercial ammo cost of $.20 per round works out to about $30/hour.

9mm at a cost of $.15 per round to reload works out to about $15 per hour, using a commercial ammo cost of $.20 per round.

45ACP at $.12 per round using a commercial cost of $.30 per round ($15 per box) works out to about $60 per hour.

[FlyFish]

I make no attempt at keeping track of how many times I reload 9mm brass. It all gets tossed into the same bucket after cleaning to be used again.

That's pretty much what I do with all my pistol brass, shoot it until I lose it or the case mouth splits. Rifle brass is another thing entirely because of the potential for case head separation and other issues after repeated trimming, but pistol brass never gets trimmed and I don't worry much about it.

[Tsquared]

The only strait walled pistol pistol brass that I have had any issues with is TULAMMO. I swept up some at the range and noticed it when I was doing my case prep. I sorted it out and I started with 47. After the first reload I was down to 44 due to split cases. After the second reload I had smiles in all of the brass. These were middle of the road loads that were closer to the minimum load than the max load. After the 3rd firing I trashed them as they had smile bulges large enough that they would need to index to drop in the barrel.

The rest of the brass I do not bother to count how many times I load them. I will run across a split case, bulge, or head separation ever so often but I sweep up enough extra brass to offset what I loose.

[rodfac]

Just doing the math, at a savings of $7.00 per box if you're getting 9mm for $14, and shooting 250 per month, that's $35 per month x 12 = $420 per year. And that, my friend, will get 3/4 of the way to a good, really good, setup.

If it's hand gun ammunition you need, I'd suggest a Dillon 550B plus a good scale, calipers and a chamfering tool. That'll bump you up another $100 or so. All that said, I'll predict that you won't save a penny, over the long run, but you will shoot more and enjoy it more.

BTW, a good way to get into it is to share the cost with a buddy....I did that 53 years ago with good success, but have long since bought more equipment as needs and locations changed.

Best Regards Rod

[oldengineer]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I've been shooting pistol and reloading for about 6 months and rodfac's post echoes my exact thoughts and experience. I own the RL550B, Dillon Dterminator scale, Lyman 1200 tumbler, Lyman case trimmer, a good dial caliper and a few assorted goodies. I've got about $850 invested including 2 caliber conversion kits and die sets and shoot about 200 rounds a week. I reload 9mm for 12 cents and 40 S&W for 15 so saving 15 cents a shot it'll take about a year to recoup my investment.

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by AxlMyk

The time involved is not a factor as I'm retired. It will be the supplies I need to figure.

You may rethink that when you start doing it. For some folks reloading is a hobby of itself, and they like nothing more than sitting in the shop/garage/wherever making ammo.

Others, like me, consider it a necessary evil if I want to go shooting a lot. I really don't mind doing it, it is just that there are a whole bunch of things I would rather do.

Originally Posted by 45_auto

9mm at a cost to reload of $.11 per round, using a commercial ammo cost of $.20 per round works out to about $30/hour.

9mm at a cost of $.15 per round to reload works out to about $15 per hour, using a commercial ammo cost of $.20 per round.

45ACP at $.12 per round using a commercial cost of $.30 per round ($15 per box) works out to about $60 per hour.

Sure, using the output per hour of a ~$600 Dillon 650. How is it with a $100 Lee Turret press, or more realistically for a beginner, a single stage?