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Old May 12, 2014, 12:55 PM   #1
Metal god
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"Accurate" powders whats wrong with them ?

I ask because I see a lot of Accurate powders but none of the others . At least in the powders I need - 308 , 5.56 and hand gun powders .

Accurate 4064 is all over the place . WHY ?? Is it not all that accurate or consistent . It seems to fall right around the 308 powder burn rates I've been using . IMR 4064 and 4895 as well as some of the other most commonly used 308 powders ??

What about 2460 and 2495 . They both are advertised as 308 and or 223 powders ?

I'm looking for longer range accuracy 500yds+ for my 308 bolt action and some good plinking powder for the AR platform .

I'm also ready to start loading 9mm and 45 acp when ever I get hand gun powder . I have all the other components and hardware to do so . For now I want powder that will work fine in both 9mm and 45 acp . My book show there is a lot of cross over when it comes to pistol powder so it seems if I can just find one of them in stock I'd be gtg .

I'm at the point now that I feel I may just buy a new firearm that uses IMR 4350 or 7828 that way I can shoot as much as I want . Those 2 powders are every where . I here the 7mm mag likes 4350 . Any other long range accurate calibers that use 4350 ?? I don't want to do anything custom so I'd like the a factory heavy barreled rifle . Remington , Savage or even Howa . Nothing to costly . This rifle would be for getting me through the 308 lean times .

I think I saw a Rem 700 in 30-06 with a heavy barrel . does IMR 4350 work good in the 30-06 ? Sure would not hurt to be able to use the same bullets regardless of firearm .
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Old May 12, 2014, 01:39 PM   #2
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I love 2460. Its cheap and it has given me fairly good accuracy. Not the best ive used, but I would buy it again if thats what was on the shelf. It does meter really well.
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Old May 12, 2014, 02:17 PM   #3
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Accurate #5 is without a doubt my favorite for most pistol loads. I use the Lee powder dippers and #5 is a very fine grain powder so it makes for very accurate loads. I would think all their powders are similar. Don't know where you are looking but in general all I see are rifle powders, pistol powder still seems to be in short supply. Gun shows here in Dallas will have racks of rifle powder but zip for pistol. I would say give it a try, if you pick the right one for the calibers you load it should be fine.
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Old May 12, 2014, 02:39 PM   #4
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The only Accurate powder I've tried so far is MagPro and have not had any luck with it. A friend though is shooting sub MOA out of his factory rifle in 270WSM using it.

IMR4350 is a wonder powder in my opinion, it works great in so many different cartridges. I've had luck with it reloading for 30-06, 7mm Remington Mag, 243Winchester, and 300 Winchester Mag.
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Old May 12, 2014, 02:41 PM   #5
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WHAT A NEGATIVE WAY to ask a question and seek information.
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Old May 12, 2014, 02:48 PM   #6
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I am a little confused. Are you saying that there is a problem with Accurate powders because they're available, but others are not? Do you mean to imply that because people are not buying out Accurate powders, that there is something wrong with Accurate?

I do notice that more Accurate powder has been available, as of late. But I tend to think that this is due to Accurate making their powders available or that they're ramping up production. I don't see any evidence that availability equals a lack of demand for Accurate powders.

I am now heavily stocked up on AA5 and AA2200. I'm very happy that powders, at least from Accurate, are coming back.
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Old May 12, 2014, 03:18 PM   #7
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Nothing is wrong with Accurate powders....but among the guys that I know that reload...they just aren't as popular as powders made by Alliant or Hodgdon.
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Old May 12, 2014, 03:43 PM   #8
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Short answer , yes I'm equating availability with what works best . I don't think it's so wrong to do so . There's must be a reason that the powders above are all over the place but niether 4895s , Varget and other very populare powders are around and gone with in seconds of hitting the shelves .

Sorry if I hurt some of ya'lls feelers but you might want to try NOT putting tone to the words . Now read the title with a happy peppy way
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Old May 12, 2014, 04:08 PM   #9
Peter M. Eick
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Nothing is wrong with Accurate powders. They just exhibit more lot to lot variation than I like in 1 lb cans. I only buy them in 8 lbs now and am much more pleased with them.

I only use AA9 in the 357 sig for example.
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Old May 12, 2014, 04:33 PM   #10
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I totally get you, Metal God. I often choose restaurants on the same principal. If there is a huge line and long wait (ie, high demand), I assume the food is good, and if there is no one in the restaurant (low demand), I assume the food is bad. With these Accurate powders, it is a bit strange that it isn't being snatched up ASAP. There is maybe lower demand for Accurate.

Last week, I was unable to get Ramshot TAC, the 8 pound jug, because it sold out in less than 1 hour. The jugs of Accurate 2200 took 8 days to sell out. I kept reading on 2200 thinking that there was something wrong with it, with respect to loading 223 and 308. After I did enough research, I wound up ordering more 2200. I ordered a total of 24 eight pound jugs (which on a 1050 will go very quickly).

I still do not understand why the Ramshot sold out so quickly, but the Accurate stayed around for so long.

I really wish I had been quicker on the Ramshot TAC. Gosh that stuff was a good deal.

But I am just happy that powder is coming back.

Oh, on a side note, I paid $155/jug on average, after hazmat and shipping. As I was doing my research on 2200, I ran across an old thread where some guys were talking about paying $50 for an 8 pound jug, in 2011. BARRRFFFF. $50?! I just got back into reloading about a year ago. Was it ever that cheap?
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Old May 12, 2014, 05:01 PM   #11
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I have liked every Accurate powder that I have tried. In a few cartridge, they beat the pants off of everything else (AA3100 and AA4350 excelled, in particular).

I think one of the biggest hindrances to people using them, is that there aren't many people recommending them and there isn't as much load data available as their is for other brands.
Under normal circumstances, at least in my area, getting your hands on Accurate powders can be difficult, as well. They just don't ship as much as other companies, so even in low demand times, the shelves can be nearly bare.
...and very few people want to try a powder that they rarely see available.
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Old May 12, 2014, 05:01 PM   #12
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Accurate rocks. I've been using AA#7 in 9mm for years, and AA32 for 38 Special. I did use #5 for a while, but drifted away from it, nothing wrong with it, works well for a lot of different calibers. As soon as I'm done typing this I'm going to load another 50 rounds of 9mm with AA#7.
I also use AA#1680 for 7.62x39mm, GREAT powder for that caliber.
I would not hesitate to use Accurate Arms powder in any recommended loading - they have always worked well for me, and I very much appreciate the easy metering.
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Old May 12, 2014, 05:17 PM   #13
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The ONLY thing I have found wrong, if you could consider it as that, with Accurate powders over the years, is that they have been from several different countries of origin.

I'm not saying this was a bad thing as they all worked properly for what I used them for, and were for the most part fairly accurate with the loads I worked up. I have been using them for a LONG time now and have a shelf full of them right now.

I am very happy with their handgun line and have been pleased with several of the rifles powders as well especially for what I paid when I purchased them. That said of the powders I have had turn on me, Accurate handgun powder has been the worst for going south. I have had close to 10 pounds of different lots in AA5,7 &9 all go south. I have only had one half pound of IMR, and a "old" can of H4831 go bad in 40+ years of loading. To be honest storage temp probably played a major role, but it didn't seem to effect the other powders sitting right along side it. The 4831, well it had been here since the early 70's and might still have been good, but it didn't look just right and had a bit of a weird smell, so it went away.

Other than that I still have them all on the shelf, but now I pay a bit more attention to them and try to only keep what I will need rather than buying it as I find it. This way I at least keep it all from the same lots and country of origin, so if something DOES head south I can be expecting to check the rest on a more regular basis.

Personally I consider my Accurate powders as utility powders. I use them for general type loads where I am simply looking for practice or some casual hog hunting, bulk blasting ammo or something along those lines. I reserve my Hodgdon and IMR loads for the more serious stuff, like long range target shooting, top accuracy, or serious hunting loads.

Nowadays if you have a powder that will suit your needs in front of you, it isn't a time to be overly picky, unless your simply working with a specific load, or caliber, with a specific powder.
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Old May 12, 2014, 05:44 PM   #14
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I bought several kegs of AA4064.

It is a shorter cut powder than IMR 4064 and thus meters better.

I developed some loads in 223 and 308 Win. In my Kreiger Barreled match rifle I got the velocities I wanted but not in the Wilson barrel AR15. I could not get more than 24.0 grains in a 223 case without extraordinary measures. Kreiger barrels are tight and loads developed in a Wilson or Douglas will blow primers in a Kreiger. With the new brass colored WSR, I had to cut loads to 22.5 or 23.0 because I pierced primers during rapid fire. This was disappointing as 23.5 grs AA4064 with a 69 SMK did not pierce primers with the older nickel plated WSR.

My lot of AA4064 shoots exceptionally tight groups in the 223 and I won my class and got medals shooting it at 200 and 300 yards at Camp Perry in the Kreiger barreled rifle.

But, in the 308 Win, I get over pressure indications at velocities less than what I can get with IMR 4064. The 190 grain loads are just too slow for 1000 yard work.

I have shot in the 308 Win a load of 175 SMK 41.5 grains AA4064 LC cases CCI #34 at 600 yards and have been shooting HM scores. Only dropped a couple of points, with X counts over 50%. Even though the velocity is less than what I want, the load was accurate.

It is a good powder within its limitations.



Code:
223 Remington  24" 1:8 Kreiger Barrel 	
		
		
							
69 Sierra 23.5  grains AA4064  lot 5902  Fed cases WSR (Brass)	OAL	2.25
5-Aug-05	T = 100° F
						
Ave Vel =	2855				 	 	
Std Dev =	31				 	 	
ES =	83				 	 	
Low =	2817				 	 	
High =	2900				 	 	
N =	10		 				
							
69 Sierra 24.0  grains AA4064  wtd lot 5902  S&B cases WSR (Brass) OAL	2.25
2-Jul-04	T = 80° F
						
Ave Vel =	2937					 	
Std Dev =	25					 	
ES =	81					
Low =	2880					
High =	2961						
N =	10						
							
Fairly Flat primers	Best group						
							
							
69 Sierra 24.5  grains AA4064 wtd  lot 5902 S&B cases WSR (Brass) OAL	2.25
	
2-Jul-04 T = 80° F	
							
Ave Vel =	2988					 	
Std Dev =	20					 	
ES =	76					
Low =	2955					
High =	3031						
N =	14						
Flat primers	Excellent 15 shot group						


223 Remington Rock River Arms NM LAR-15 	
		
20" 1:8 Stainless Wilson barrel,					
							
							
69 Sierra 24.0 grains AA2520 LC mixed WSR (Brass)	OAL	2.25	
22-Aug-04	T = 75° F						
Ave Vel =	2798						
Std Dev =	24						
ES =	95						
Low =	2756						
High =	2851						
N =	16


Code:
308 Win Ruger M77 MKII 	26 " Barrel 1:10 twist	
						
174 FMJBT LC79 Match M118 White Box 			
18 Dec 2010 T =  40 °F					
						
Ave Vel =	2546			 		
Std Dev =	17					
ES =	41					
High =	2572					
Low =	2531					
N =	5					
						
174 FMJBT 41.0 grs AA4064 wtd Lot 5902 LC mixed CCI#34 OAL 2.800"
						
29 Dec 2010 T =  40 °F					
						
Ave Vel =	2495					
Std Dev =	11					
ES =	36					
High =	2514					
Low =	2478					
N =	10					
						
						
						
174 FMJBT 41.5 grs AA4064 wtd Lot 5902 LC mixed CCI#34 OAL 2.800"
						
29 Dec 2010 T =  40 °F					
						
Ave Vel =	2520					
Std Dev =	21					
ES =	68					
High =	2551					
Low =	2483					
N =	10					
						
174 FMJBT 42.0 grs AA4064 wtd Lot 5902 LC mixed CCI#34 OAL 2.800"
						
29 Dec 2010 T =  40 °F					
						
Ave Vel =	2555					
Std Dev =	21					
ES =	73					
High =	2599					
Low =	2526					
N =	10					
						
					
174 FMJBT 42.5 grs AA4064 wtd Lot 5902 LC mixed CCI#34 OAL 2.800"
						
29 Dec 2010 T =  40 °F					
						
Ave Vel =	2575					
Std Dev =	23					
ES =	76				
High =	2610					
Low =	2534				
N =	10					
						
Two rounds sticky extraction, over max load			


190 Hornady Match  41.0 grs AA 4064 wtd lot 5902 	170grs ≤ Fed cases ≤ 175 grs Fed 210S	OAL 2.850	
				
	19-Oct-04		T = 77  ° F				
Ave Vel =	2465		2483	 	 	excellent group
Std Dev =	14		2460	 	 	 	
ES =	31		2452	 	 	 	
Low =	2452		2453	 	 	 	
High =	2483		2475	 	 	 	
N =	5		 				
							
190 Hornady Match  41.5 grs AA 4064 wtd lot 5902 	OAL 2.850	170grs ≤ Fed cases ≤ 175 grs Fed 210S
	
	19-Oct-04	T = 79  ° F		
							
Ave Vel =	2493		2489	 	 	
Std Dev =	5		2490	 	 	 	
ES =	12		2495	 	 	 	
Low =	2489		2501	 	 	 	
High =	2501		2490	 	 	 	
N =	5		 				
							
excellent group							
							
				
			
							
190 Hornady Match  42.0 grs AA 4064 wtd lot 5902 	OAL 2.850		
170grs ≤ Fed cases ≤ 175 grs Fed 210S
		
19-Oct-04	T = 79  ° F						
Ave Vel =	2536				 	
Std Dev =	10				 	 	
ES =	34				 	 	
Low =	2522				 	 	
High =	2556				 	 	
N =	10		 				
	excellent group	
This is as good as I can do with a post sight and a M1a. Ten shot group at 100 yards.


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Old May 13, 2014, 12:01 PM   #15
Metal god
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OK thanks guys . Sounds like 4064 is worth trying . I like the Idea of 8# jug maybe two to keep the loads consistent . .

Slamfire : thanks that's almost exactly what I expected and am glad you were able to give me some first hand knowledge about the powder . It is interesting that 24gr is max for the 223 case . My plinking load for my ARs is 25gr IMR 4895 and I think I could get at least another 1.5gr into the case but thats a 55gr bullet . your 24gr issue must be due to the longer 69gr bullet ???
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Old May 13, 2014, 01:33 PM   #16
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I'd guess they haven't been around as long, as some of the others, & or that loading data is not as common, or "out there" as other comparable powders... I've used 3-4 different Accurate powders, & never had an issue with any...

I bought my 1st AA#9, as they were the only ( 1st ones ) that had load data for the 50 A.E. that was many years ago, & I still use it today
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Old May 13, 2014, 04:08 PM   #17
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I really like Accurate powders. Superb velocity and accuracy in 270WSM with MagPro, and 4100 is the best magnum pistol powder I've ever used-- measures perfectly, top velocity and super clean burning. Accurate 2230 is probably the best powder for big bores like 458 WM. 5744 is the most versatile powder around for light to medium loads in big cases because it is not position sensitive.

Buy 'em and try 'em, you'll like 'em.
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Old May 13, 2014, 04:43 PM   #18
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I have used AA-9 in 45 Winmag and 475 Wildey Mag for a little over 20 years and always had good results with them. I just started using AA-7 in 460 Rowland recently and have had good results so far. The problem now is finding anywhere to get Accurate powders in the Anchorage area.
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Old May 13, 2014, 11:31 PM   #19
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On the handgun side. . .

I've been lurking this post for a bit. The OP is talking rifle powders. So I left it be for a while. But I felt compelled to chime on the pistol side of things:

I use AA2, AA5, & AA7.

For AA2, I use it a lot for target/match 38 wadcutters DEWC's to be exact. Chronographs very consistently, and pin-point accurate. Burns clean too. Well, at these low pressures, it does leave a little bit of "yellow sand," and that is to be expected. But it's otherwise clean, with little residue. You can tell it wants to be loaded hotter though.

AA2 also sees duty for short-barrel 38+P and 357 Mag loads, with 125g & 110g (38 only) bullets. The 357/125's deliver 1195 fps through a 3" bbl; and 1212 fps though a 4" bbl; and with minimal muzzle flash and recoil (which is the reason for using AA2). Quite respectable, I'd say. And there's probably room to spare on the load work up - but I don't hot-rod rounds. I'm satisfied with the current recipe.

Aaaand, AA2 is great for 115g general purpose shooters in 9mm.

AA5 is probably the consummate 9mm propellant. Works great with 124g bullets (and higher and lower weights too) through a wide range of load levels. Everything your looking for - clean, consistent, accurate.

I use AA5 a lot in 45ACP too, for fairly stiff rounds.

And AA5 is my favorite propellant for 10mm. It makes great "85% power" rounds (as I call them) for practice. I shoot more of these through my 10mm's than any other loading. Consistent, clean, accurate, excellent.

I don't use AA7 a lot, as I'm a very "fast powder centric" loader. But I do use it for high-end 158g rounds for 357 Mag. Delivers high velocities through a 4" bbl without all the muzzle flash of the typical slow magnum powders (W296, AA9, 4227, etc.). I'm at 1291 fps so far, and I'm seeing no signs of pressure. I'll most likely continue to work up this recipe.

And these aren't all the uses I have; so yeah, I'm quite sold on Accurate powders.
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Old May 14, 2014, 01:49 AM   #20
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Don't be turned off to a powder just because there isn't a huge local demand for it. I walked into a LGS a couple months ago; when I saw 1lb of VV150 on the shelf I snatched it up, then I asked if they had any VV550, the owner gave me a raised eyebrow and said that since he started carrying it, I was the only one who had ever purchased or asked about VV powders! Certainly doesn't mean they are bad or not for use.
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Old May 16, 2014, 08:00 PM   #21
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Hodgdon buys powder from St. Marks and ADI in Australia for the Hodgdon line of powders. For the Winchester line of powders the powder comes from St. Marks. For the IMR line of powders the powder comes from Canada, the General Dynamic factory.

Alliant, Accurate, and Ramshot import powders, mainly from Europe. So this is one of the reasons why you might see a glut of Accurate powders as they got a fresh shipment in from across the pond.

I do recall that AA4064 has had at least two suppliers in the past, so some folks were disappointed in lot to lot consistency.

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Old May 17, 2014, 09:05 AM   #22
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Look at a Cartridges of the World book.

If you look at any of the major factory produced ammunition that is handloaded, they almost all give velocity/energy data with Accurate or IMR powders.

Heck, even the Wildcats list very few powders that are not Accurate or IMR.
You'll see a few Hogdon, and Alliant.
Darn few for Ramshot.
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Old May 17, 2014, 10:29 AM   #23
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I'd love to see a glut of Accurate pistol powder right now. Pistol powder is as rare as hen's teeth in Texas right now. I'm looking hard at working up a Pyrodex load since that is the only thing I can find.
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Old May 17, 2014, 03:40 PM   #24
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Thee is a lot of suspicion for an unknown powder and people have recipes for known ones and take those first.

I found R17 a while back in 5 lb jugs. Hornady had it listed as a load though no one else did. I got a 5 lb jug and its a fine powder. I had to test it to find out though and of course it was all gone by the time I got back to it.
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Old May 17, 2014, 08:30 PM   #25
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In electronics, IC manufacturers started out trying to be the cheapest making memory ICs and then started selling more complex products.
It was a natural starting point.

I can sort of look at gun powder that way. Hodgdon started out with a truck, reselling 4895 for 10 cents a pound in my first Hodgdon brochure. A generation later, they have worked their way up to the top of the heap of resellers.

AA started out reselling what ever powder no reputable reseller would touch, for low low prices and started to make a name for themselves. I saw a picture of their building. It was tiny shed. I doubt it had a phone or a toilet. Then they published CZ52 only loads that blew up CZ52s left and right. What ever was left of the company was sold off.

Now they are like TASCO. There never was a TASCO, just a name under which things were resold. Now not a good name, so not much longer for this world.
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