Safest ammo for 9 mm Luger P08 or Walther P38?

rshaw · February 7, 2017, 10:17 AM

Hi all,

Have been looking for the safest / best ammo for 2 shooters - a 1918 Luger P08 and a Walther P38 ac43.

A local gunsmith recommended 9 mm Luger subsonic 150 gr, but this same ammo was discouraged by others who are familiar with these C&R handguns.

I finally "took a chance" with my P38, and after 70 rounds, I have had no problems. I really do not want to fire this heavy round through my P08 until I have more information- therefore my question:

Is there data to be found on the pressures exerted by standard loads together with the maximum pressures recommended for the two firearms mentioned above? Weight of the round versus weight of the load of course both have a bearing on the result.

Thanks

Jim Watson · February 7, 2017, 12:20 PM

Chamber pressure is regulated by SAAMI and CIP. Bullet weight does not affect chamber pressure within industry limits; more lead, less powder.
As I said in the other thread, a friend's Luger was more reliable with my 145 grain subsonic 9mm than anything else he had tried.

Even so, I would start with the 124 grain (8 gram) bullet that George Luger and DWM thought suitable when the caliber was introduced. About all you can do to protect the guns is to use standard commercial ammunition and avoid anything labeled "NATO" or "+P".

**44 AMP** · February 7, 2017, 12:55 PM

The spec for the original 9mm Luger round was a 124gr bullet (fmj) at 1050fps from a 4" barrel.

Shortly before WWI the ammo was changed to a 115gr fmj at 1150fps from a 4" barrel.

THIS is the ammo your Luger and P.38 were built to run on. (not saying they won't run on anything else, only that its what they were made for).

Change anything, and you can have function issues, and change it too much (like +p) and you can damage the guns.

I have a 1936 P.08 and an AC 42 P.38. Have run American Eagle 124gr fmj with no problems from MY guns.

AVOID everything labled +p and I wouldn't run stuff listed as "nato spec" either, but that's just me...I don't want my collector pieces to break.

T. O'Heir · February 7, 2017, 01:27 PM

Neither of 'em needs anything but standard 9mm ammo. No +P, of course. No 147's or 150's either.

spacecoast · February 7, 2017, 02:20 PM

If you don't load your own, most shooter 9mm Lugers seem to run OK on Winchester White Box 115 gr. ammo.

SIGSHR · February 7, 2017, 02:56 PM

I got good accuracy and reliability out of my 1943 Walther made P-38 with W-W Silvertips. Occurs to me that new springs might be a good idea for these elderly ex-POWs.

Chris_B · February 7, 2017, 04:38 PM

My Walther expert and gunsmith assures me that 124gr was the Heer bullet weight intended for my 1944 P.38. He's designed some stuff for Korth and he's an historic German firearm nut. I take his word.

I can say that anecdotally, with 115gr I will have one or two feed problems per mag. My Walther gunsmith inspected the pistol, changed nothing mechanically, put in eight 124gr rounds, and bam bam bam bam bam bam bam bam was heard from his back room.

That said, I fire 115gr when I shoot it, which is not often at all. The slides can get cracks from stress risers in the 90* cuts.

kilimanjaro · February 7, 2017, 06:46 PM

Stick with the designed loadings, as a general rule. You've got antiques, no reason to beat them. Just one cracked part, you've got an expensive part to locate and replace. and a mismatched pistol.

For recreational shooting, I'd invest in a loading setup and work your own lighter loads, just to keep your guns in tiptop condition.

rshaw · February 8, 2017, 04:06 PM

Thanks SO much to everyone for your replies! This is brilliant!

I am very hesitant to shoot collector guns- breaking a part would be a shame.... but then I saw the video of THE serial #2 45 Luger P08 being taken to the range.. THAT was pretty extreme!

I have a collector P08 which I have never fired, although the temptation to do it is sometimes difficult to resist. I have committed to purchasing a shooter P08 (1918) which I CAN fire without feeling too nervous about the risk of breaking a part. Have to wait until August 2017 though.....

February 7, 2017, 10:17 AM	#1
rshaw Member Join Date: January 23, 2017 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 94	Safest ammo for 9 mm Luger P08 or Walther P38? Hi all, Have been looking for the safest / best ammo for 2 shooters - a 1918 Luger P08 and a Walther P38 ac43. A local gunsmith recommended 9 mm Luger subsonic 150 gr, but this same ammo was discouraged by others who are familiar with these C&R handguns. I finally "took a chance" with my P38, and after 70 rounds, I have had no problems. I really do not want to fire this heavy round through my P08 until I have more information- therefore my question: Is there data to be found on the pressures exerted by standard loads together with the maximum pressures recommended for the two firearms mentioned above? Weight of the round versus weight of the load of course both have a bearing on the result. Thanks __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. RShaw, Venlo, the Netherlands

February 7, 2017, 12:55 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	The spec for the original 9mm Luger round was a 124gr bullet (fmj) at 1050fps from a 4" barrel. Shortly before WWI the ammo was changed to a 115gr fmj at 1150fps from a 4" barrel. THIS is the ammo your Luger and P.38 were built to run on. (not saying they won't run on anything else, only that its what they were made for). Change anything, and you can have function issues, and change it too much (like +p) and you can damage the guns. I have a 1936 P.08 and an AC 42 P.38. Have run American Eagle 124gr fmj with no problems from MY guns. AVOID everything labled +p and I wouldn't run stuff listed as "nato spec" either, but that's just me...I don't want my collector pieces to break. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 7, 2017, 01:27 PM	#4
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Neither of 'em needs anything but standard 9mm ammo. No +P, of course. No 147's or 150's either. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 8, 2017, 04:06 PM	#9
rshaw Member Join Date: January 23, 2017 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 94	Thanks SO much to everyone for your replies! This is brilliant! I am very hesitant to shoot collector guns- breaking a part would be a shame.... but then I saw the video of THE serial #2 45 Luger P08 being taken to the range.. THAT was pretty extreme! I have a collector P08 which I have never fired, although the temptation to do it is sometimes difficult to resist. I have committed to purchasing a shooter P08 (1918) which I CAN fire without feeling too nervous about the risk of breaking a part. Have to wait until August 2017 though..... __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. RShaw, Venlo, the Netherlands

February 7, 2017, 12:20 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Chamber pressure is regulated by SAAMI and CIP. Bullet weight does not affect chamber pressure within industry limits; more lead, less powder. As I said in the other thread, a friend's Luger was more reliable with my 145 grain subsonic 9mm than anything else he had tried. Even so, I would start with the 124 grain (8 gram) bullet that George Luger and DWM thought suitable when the caliber was introduced. About all you can do to protect the guns is to use standard commercial ammunition and avoid anything labeled "NATO" or "+P".

February 7, 2017, 02:20 PM	#5
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	If you don't load your own, most shooter 9mm Lugers seem to run OK on Winchester White Box 115 gr. ammo.

February 7, 2017, 02:56 PM	#6
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	I got good accuracy and reliability out of my 1943 Walther made P-38 with W-W Silvertips. Occurs to me that new springs might be a good idea for these elderly ex-POWs.

February 7, 2017, 04:38 PM	#7
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	My Walther expert and gunsmith assures me that 124gr was the Heer bullet weight intended for my 1944 P.38. He's designed some stuff for Korth and he's an historic German firearm nut. I take his word. I can say that anecdotally, with 115gr I will have one or two feed problems per mag. My Walther gunsmith inspected the pistol, changed nothing mechanically, put in eight 124gr rounds, and bam bam bam bam bam bam bam bam was heard from his back room. That said, I fire 115gr when I shoot it, which is not often at all. The slides can get cracks from stress risers in the 90* cuts.

February 7, 2017, 06:46 PM	#8
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Stick with the designed loadings, as a general rule. You've got antiques, no reason to beat them. Just one cracked part, you've got an expensive part to locate and replace. and a mismatched pistol. For recreational shooting, I'd invest in a loading setup and work your own lighter loads, just to keep your guns in tiptop condition.