"special" rifle purchase

north1 · January 23, 2010, 08:17 PM

The which rifle to buy has been covered over and over, but not quite my situation. Purchasing a new rifle for my 15 year old son for open country(usually) whitetail deer hunting. Want this to be a one time purchase, something that will shoot well out of the box with not much tinkering. Something that 30 years from now, if taken care of, will be a rifle his son can use and its value will be the same or greater than it is today.

I have researched and read about every piece of info I can find and am as unsure as when I started. He shoots lefthanded as he is left eye dominant but shoots right handed bolt rifles with not many problems as long as they don't have a monte carlo stock. Should I be looking solely for a leftie?

Calibers. Not wanting to get something to get him flinching off the bat I am considering 25-06 or 7mm-08. Shells easier to find for the 25 but the action and barrel would probably last longer on the 08. I guess a 270 wouldn't be over the top recoil wise and shells would even be more available, but have personally witnessed the potency of the 25-06 on a 300 yard shot and I was impressed. Will the 08 dupicate the ballistics?

Model/Make. I have looked at browning x-bolt, tc encore, sako, tikka t3, various remingtons, ruger hawkeye, and weatherby mark v's and was most impressed with the browning and weatherby. Have not had the chance to look at kimber and cz.

Both of us have been saving and have 800-1200 to spend on the rifle, with another 400-600 available for a scope.

Scope. Looking at either a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x50 rapid z 600 or Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x50 BDC.

Any info on rifles, calibers or scopes would be greatly appreciated. It's taken along time to save for this purchase and I want to make it right from the start. First and foremost I will have him in the stores shouldering and fondling everything recommended and get what feels right to him. I just need to narrow things down a bit, and get info from those of you much more knowledgable and experienced than me.

dwwhite · January 23, 2010, 08:37 PM

As a lefty, my reccomendation is to go ahead and spring for a left handed gun. Of the one's you mention, Weatherby, Browning, Ruger and Remington all market left handed rifles in a reasonable assortment of calibers.

A true left handed gun will always mean more to him (It'll be HIS rifle) and it will be designed for him (obviously not specifically, but generally speaking). Plus, if he's like me, he'll be much less inclined to ever trade off a left handed gun than a right sided model.

Don't listen to the folks that will tell you to go ahead and buy a right handed rifle so he'll get used to what is readily available. Sure, it's doable, but you shouldn't make him compromise when a better alternative is available.

Of course, all of this said, by all means, take him shopping and let him have some input. You might gently discourage him if he insists on a .470 double rifle, or a $75 single shot .22, but allow him some leeway in rifle and cartridge selection, within reason.

bigwrench · January 23, 2010, 08:38 PM

I know a few left eyed right handed shooters. They all prefer lever guns and pumps in favor of bolt actions, claiming that they are less awkward to opperate than bolt guns with their off hands. That doesn't leave any options for 25-06 that I know of, but the browning BLR is available in 7mm-08.

fisherman66 · January 23, 2010, 09:04 PM

With handedness being an issue, the Ruger #1 gives him the flexibility of shooting from either side without action getting in the way. Same thing goes with the Winchester 1885 or Browning B78 (which was just re-released). All three are top shelf rifles that I would suspect will appreciate in value as well as most if not better than most other rifles.

The 7-08 isn't going to duplicate the ballistics of the 25-06. Not even really close, but the 7-08 is a fine deer cartridge for 250 yard MPBR. The 260 nearly splits the middle, but ammo choices are fairly limited. The 257 Roberts is another fine choice in the ballpark you are wandering.

Doyle · January 23, 2010, 09:17 PM

Unless you live somewhere that has typical 300+ yd shots, the 7mm-08 will serve him for a lifetime.

One of the advantages of a 7mm-08 (and the opposite of the 25-06) is that the 7mm-08 is a very efficient cartridge. It generates 95% of terminal velocity in the first 16" of barrel travel. A 20" barrel is quite plenty for it unless you are wanting to eek out that last few FPS.

On the other hand, a 25-06 is about is inefficient as you can get. It really needs at least a 24" barrel and a 26" is even better.

dwwhite · January 23, 2010, 09:18 PM

Sorry, I guess I misread a little.

My initial understanding of the OP was that the young man was left handed/left eyed. Being right handed/left eyed opens up another can of worms, as bolt manipulation with the non-dominant hand can be troublesome.

Fisherman's reccomendation of a single shot is a very valid solution, ergonomically, as well as provides for a very elegant rifle.

elkman06 · January 23, 2010, 09:19 PM

I am one of those people who believe the 7mm-08 is here to stay. A lot of people have jumped on this bandwagon for their kids or smaller framed family members. It appears you have done your homework,,get to buying. LOL
elkman06

James R. Burke · January 23, 2010, 09:24 PM

I myself like the Ruger No 1, has many of you probalby know. I have had a few of them, and they all been great. Myself and wife both have the 1 A light sporter, and they shoot great, I also reload. They work great for a leftie or right hand just the same. Thats the way we ended up with hers. The only difference is she has the .243 and I have the 30-06. It also comes in the .270 which he should be able to handle no problem. That .243 works just fine on deer also. She shot at two and dropped them both. With the .243 you need a heavier bullet like 100 grains or so. For hers I am using the 100 grain Nosler Partition very accurate and dorps the deer. Shot placement is key no matter what you are shooting. Takes a better sportsperson to leave something walk than take a bad shot in my book. She has let a few pretty nice ones go because of being unsure of shotplacement, which made me proud. In the No 1 you can get almost any caliber you want. The only draw back of it is that it is a single shot. Never mattered to us. Made the first one count, and good shots that is about it most of the time. They do cost alot for a single shot but I am sure for a first rifle if you choose a good caliber it will be with him forever. Sounds like your willing to get some real good optics, and that also is a good move. Just buy it once and your done most of the time. But this is just myself, and is not for everyone. The more he can see, hold, or even shoot the better. Good luck, have fun, and be safe. Also welcome to the forum, you will get alot of information here, by what I consider some of the best. I get alot from just reading post, and replys.

dmazur · January 24, 2010, 01:43 PM

+1 to a Ruger #1 with a Zeiss 3-9x40 Rapid-Z scope.

Scope rings can be a problem with the Ruger #1's quarter rib. The Zeiss has 4 inches of eye relief, and I found that was enough to get a proper sight picture without special "offset" rings to bring the occular closer.

(We also have #1's in .243 and .30-06...my wife, who is recoil-sensitive, does fine with the .243. I believe a 7mm-08 is a good "in-between" cartridge but I don't think the #1 is factory chambered for that.)

giaquir · January 24, 2010, 01:50 PM

I have a Rem 700 270
in LH configuration
and I had a kick eez
pad on it and it is a
***** cat and shoots
like a dream ,3 shots
covered by a quarter
a1 150 yds

Water-Man · January 24, 2010, 01:57 PM

Weatherby Mark V Synthetic in any of the calibers you mentioned and more. You can purchase a new one for less than $1000.00. It's a great rifle!

Abel · January 24, 2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

He shoots lefthanded as he is left eye dominant but shoots right handed bolt rifles with not many problems as long as they don't have a monte carlo stock. Should I be looking solely for a leftie?

No. I would buy a new Winchester Featherweight if I was in the same situation. I too am left eye dominant & shoot non-monte-carlo stocks on right handed bolt guns. It works fine. The new FN/Browning-made Winchesters are top of the heap. The only other gun that comes to mind is the Kimber Montana 84M or 8400M. I like the 7mm-08, 308, 270, or 30-06.

fast-eddie · January 25, 2010, 03:22 AM

I bought a Savage 110 .308 for my 11 year old daughter, I'm going to have her use reduced loads. If it's a problem I'm going to get her a .44 mag or 357 lever gun and let he brother (13) use the 308. I think the 308 is perfect, it'll be enough gun for most large game as well. You can buy some reduced recoil loads from both remington and federal, they seem to be about the price of 7mm-08 ammo. She's left handed/right eye dominant, so I'm hoping she'll be able to use the righty bolt.

Ruger #1 sounds good though, if it had a youth stock I would have seriously consider one. I want one in 460 S&W myself.

January 23, 2010, 09:04 PM	#4
fisherman66 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2005 Location: The Woodlands TX Posts: 4,679	With handedness being an issue, the Ruger #1 gives him the flexibility of shooting from either side without action getting in the way. Same thing goes with the Winchester 1885 or Browning B78 (which was just re-released). All three are top shelf rifles that I would suspect will appreciate in value as well as most if not better than most other rifles. The 7-08 isn't going to duplicate the ballistics of the 25-06. Not even really close, but the 7-08 is a fine deer cartridge for 250 yard MPBR. The 260 nearly splits the middle, but ammo choices are fairly limited. The 257 Roberts is another fine choice in the ballpark you are wandering. __________________ la plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas!

January 23, 2010, 09:19 PM	#7
elkman06 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2006 Location: Wyoming Posts: 885	I am one of those people who believe the 7mm-08 is here to stay. A lot of people have jumped on this bandwagon for their kids or smaller framed family members. It appears you have done your homework,,get to buying. LOL elkman06 __________________ "The right of the citizens to bear arms in the defense of themselves and of the state shall not be denied." Wyoming Constitution Article 1, Sec24 "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6"

January 23, 2010, 09:24 PM	#8
James R. Burke Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: U.P. of Mich/Quinnesec Posts: 1,897	I myself like the Ruger No 1, has many of you probalby know. I have had a few of them, and they all been great. Myself and wife both have the 1 A light sporter, and they shoot great, I also reload. They work great for a leftie or right hand just the same. Thats the way we ended up with hers. The only difference is she has the .243 and I have the 30-06. It also comes in the .270 which he should be able to handle no problem. That .243 works just fine on deer also. She shot at two and dropped them both. With the .243 you need a heavier bullet like 100 grains or so. For hers I am using the 100 grain Nosler Partition very accurate and dorps the deer. Shot placement is key no matter what you are shooting. Takes a better sportsperson to leave something walk than take a bad shot in my book. She has let a few pretty nice ones go because of being unsure of shotplacement, which made me proud. In the No 1 you can get almost any caliber you want. The only draw back of it is that it is a single shot. Never mattered to us. Made the first one count, and good shots that is about it most of the time. They do cost alot for a single shot but I am sure for a first rifle if you choose a good caliber it will be with him forever. Sounds like your willing to get some real good optics, and that also is a good move. Just buy it once and your done most of the time. But this is just myself, and is not for everyone. The more he can see, hold, or even shoot the better. Good luck, have fun, and be safe. Also welcome to the forum, you will get alot of information here, by what I consider some of the best. I get alot from just reading post, and replys. Last edited by James R. Burke; January 23, 2010 at 09:28 PM. Reason: Add:

January 24, 2010, 01:43 PM	#9
dmazur Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,310	+1 to a Ruger #1 with a Zeiss 3-9x40 Rapid-Z scope. Scope rings can be a problem with the Ruger #1's quarter rib. The Zeiss has 4 inches of eye relief, and I found that was enough to get a proper sight picture without special "offset" rings to bring the occular closer. (We also have #1's in .243 and .30-06...my wife, who is recoil-sensitive, does fine with the .243. I believe a 7mm-08 is a good "in-between" cartridge but I don't think the #1 is factory chambered for that.) __________________ .30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong

January 23, 2010, 08:17 PM	#1
north1 Member Join Date: January 23, 2010 Posts: 29	"special" rifle purchase The which rifle to buy has been covered over and over, but not quite my situation. Purchasing a new rifle for my 15 year old son for open country(usually) whitetail deer hunting. Want this to be a one time purchase, something that will shoot well out of the box with not much tinkering. Something that 30 years from now, if taken care of, will be a rifle his son can use and its value will be the same or greater than it is today. I have researched and read about every piece of info I can find and am as unsure as when I started. He shoots lefthanded as he is left eye dominant but shoots right handed bolt rifles with not many problems as long as they don't have a monte carlo stock. Should I be looking solely for a leftie? Calibers. Not wanting to get something to get him flinching off the bat I am considering 25-06 or 7mm-08. Shells easier to find for the 25 but the action and barrel would probably last longer on the 08. I guess a 270 wouldn't be over the top recoil wise and shells would even be more available, but have personally witnessed the potency of the 25-06 on a 300 yard shot and I was impressed. Will the 08 dupicate the ballistics? Model/Make. I have looked at browning x-bolt, tc encore, sako, tikka t3, various remingtons, ruger hawkeye, and weatherby mark v's and was most impressed with the browning and weatherby. Have not had the chance to look at kimber and cz. Both of us have been saving and have 800-1200 to spend on the rifle, with another 400-600 available for a scope. Scope. Looking at either a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x50 rapid z 600 or Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x50 BDC. Any info on rifles, calibers or scopes would be greatly appreciated. It's taken along time to save for this purchase and I want to make it right from the start. First and foremost I will have him in the stores shouldering and fondling everything recommended and get what feels right to him. I just need to narrow things down a bit, and get info from those of you much more knowledgable and experienced than me.

January 23, 2010, 08:37 PM	#2
dwwhite Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2008 Location: Southwest Tx Posts: 187	As a lefty, my reccomendation is to go ahead and spring for a left handed gun. Of the one's you mention, Weatherby, Browning, Ruger and Remington all market left handed rifles in a reasonable assortment of calibers. A true left handed gun will always mean more to him (It'll be HIS rifle) and it will be designed for him (obviously not specifically, but generally speaking). Plus, if he's like me, he'll be much less inclined to ever trade off a left handed gun than a right sided model. Don't listen to the folks that will tell you to go ahead and buy a right handed rifle so he'll get used to what is readily available. Sure, it's doable, but you shouldn't make him compromise when a better alternative is available. Of course, all of this said, by all means, take him shopping and let him have some input. You might gently discourage him if he insists on a .470 double rifle, or a $75 single shot .22, but allow him some leeway in rifle and cartridge selection, within reason.

January 23, 2010, 08:38 PM	#3
bigwrench Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2009 Location: foot of the uintas Posts: 148	I know a few left eyed right handed shooters. They all prefer lever guns and pumps in favor of bolt actions, claiming that they are less awkward to opperate than bolt guns with their off hands. That doesn't leave any options for 25-06 that I know of, but the browning BLR is available in 7mm-08.

January 23, 2010, 09:17 PM	#5
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Unless you live somewhere that has typical 300+ yd shots, the 7mm-08 will serve him for a lifetime. One of the advantages of a 7mm-08 (and the opposite of the 25-06) is that the 7mm-08 is a very efficient cartridge. It generates 95% of terminal velocity in the first 16" of barrel travel. A 20" barrel is quite plenty for it unless you are wanting to eek out that last few FPS. On the other hand, a 25-06 is about is inefficient as you can get. It really needs at least a 24" barrel and a 26" is even better.

January 23, 2010, 09:18 PM	#6
dwwhite Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2008 Location: Southwest Tx Posts: 187	Sorry, I guess I misread a little. My initial understanding of the OP was that the young man was left handed/left eyed. Being right handed/left eyed opens up another can of worms, as bolt manipulation with the non-dominant hand can be troublesome. Fisherman's reccomendation of a single shot is a very valid solution, ergonomically, as well as provides for a very elegant rifle.

January 24, 2010, 01:50 PM	#10
giaquir Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Deerfield,New Hampshire Posts: 512	I have a Rem 700 270 in LH configuration and I had a kick eez pad on it and it is a ***** cat and shoots like a dream ,3 shots covered by a quarter a1 150 yds

January 24, 2010, 01:57 PM	#11
Water-Man Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 2,126	Weatherby Mark V Synthetic in any of the calibers you mentioned and more. You can purchase a new one for less than $1000.00. It's a great rifle!

January 25, 2010, 03:22 AM	#13
fast-eddie Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2009 Location: Tigard Or, Posts: 342	I bought a Savage 110 .308 for my 11 year old daughter, I'm going to have her use reduced loads. If it's a problem I'm going to get her a .44 mag or 357 lever gun and let he brother (13) use the 308. I think the 308 is perfect, it'll be enough gun for most large game as well. You can buy some reduced recoil loads from both remington and federal, they seem to be about the price of 7mm-08 ammo. She's left handed/right eye dominant, so I'm hoping she'll be able to use the righty bolt. Ruger #1 sounds good though, if it had a youth stock I would have seriously consider one. I want one in 460 S&W myself.