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September 23, 2017, 09:56 AM | #51 |
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I wonder if the Good Samaritan had something like the NRA self defense insurance, and I wonder if this would be covered.
The reason I wonder if it would be covered is because: the Samaritan has interfered in a criminal act. He was not originally acting in self defense - although he may have wound up having to act in self defense. https://mynrainsurance.com/insurance...tcode=cdh02663
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September 23, 2017, 10:43 AM | #52 |
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On a related note: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-7-Eleven.html
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September 24, 2017, 03:41 AM | #53 |
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The story above was about a cop that wrestled with and then shot a guy at a 7-11 convenience store parking lot 7 times. This happened in California.
I like to read the comments to news stories. At least until they devolve into the 'No, you are' and 'No, you are 10x' level. Most of the comments in this story are, IMhO, very much anti-gun, anti-cop. Many folk with the almost standard 'why didn't the cop just him in the leg?' and no one correcting them. |
September 24, 2017, 07:07 AM | #54 |
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here's the whole 7-11 video -- start to finish.
it would appear the assailant was absolutely, and maniacally, relentless in attacking the cop.... http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/23...o-gunfire.html The assailant had already been Tased... to absolutely no effect, and the officer was alone. As usual, selective media editing of only the final seconds... is selective truth. |
September 24, 2017, 08:07 AM | #55 | |
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I
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There will be no preponderance of the evidence if there is no civil suit. Things are much simpler here than in DC, and move much faster. It may not be the purview but many of us have been sued a few time for doing our jobs.
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September 24, 2017, 08:42 AM | #56 | ||
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But nothing can prevent the filing of such a suit by someone with standing who has suffered damages. At that point, the evidence becomes key to preventing further legal action under the law outlined in your link. Quote:
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September 24, 2017, 10:41 AM | #57 |
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This is a hypothetical that probably does not apply here,but the good Sam was supposedly stabbed in the neck.
I'm taking it another step. Bad guy is down,but conscious. Weapons are on the floor. The bad news is,I'm hit bad. Bleeding. Unsure how long I will be conscious. If I go out,I'm at the bad guy's mercy.(He has not shown any so far) What to do? |
September 24, 2017, 10:48 AM | #58 | |
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And he did so. He gained control of the knife. Whether what happened next involved the use of necessary force or excessive force on his part could only be answered by the triers of fact in court. The standards of proof differ depending upon whether it is a civil court or criminal court. |
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September 24, 2017, 02:15 PM | #59 | |
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Someone would argue that, "had he not approached him in the first place..." "Excessive", reminds me of the over 130 shots fired trying to stop 2 people in Miami back in 1986. Seems like a lot, when your not there. If the circumstances justify the use of deadly force and a steam roller was the only tool you had to stop the threat, would turning the threat into a mushy mess be excessive? |
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September 24, 2017, 02:37 PM | #60 | |||
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Quote:
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They were not there--they never are--but they would have the video. |
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September 24, 2017, 05:30 PM | #61 | |
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Quote:
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September 24, 2017, 05:33 PM | #62 |
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But will you take care of others?
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September 24, 2017, 05:40 PM | #63 | |
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It would have to be a crime that shocks the conscience.
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September 24, 2017, 06:32 PM | #64 |
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Exactly.
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September 24, 2017, 06:41 PM | #65 |
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That's a pretty standard finding in the pro-social literature. The more horrific, the more the likelihood of intervention.
Example: A man is fighting with his ex. People not that likely to intervene even if armed. A man knocks down wife and pours gasoline on her to torch her, intervention becomes much more likely.
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September 25, 2017, 09:55 AM | #66 | |
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It depends on how the policy was written. Like many "self defense" plans, the NRA plan has a reimbursement provision that will reimburse criminal defense costs once you are acquitted. This is because it is generally not legal to insure against criminal liability. To this, they then add a liability insurance policy to protect against civil liability. So to see what the Starbucks Good Samaritan might expect from an NRA policy look at what the liability portion covers: https://mynrainsurance.com/getmedia/...cy-forms-12-16. Pay particular attention to Section 1.A which sets forth what they actually cover. And the NRA policy only pays after your other insurance (like the general liability part of your homeowner's insurance) pays, so it might make more sense to get your civil liability insurance from that insurance company that is already underwriting part of the risk. And once you've got your civil liability covered, you can be more selective in shopping for your "criminal defense reimbursement" plan. |
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November 3, 2017, 01:59 AM | #67 | |
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If you are Justified, the use force, if not then scamper away. You can always counter sue, esp. If you are stabbed in the neck by an attacker. :/ |
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November 3, 2017, 02:04 AM | #68 | |
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November 3, 2017, 09:52 AM | #69 |
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November 3, 2017, 09:53 AM | #70 | ||
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Quote:
https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/def...ense-knife-use Quote:
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November 3, 2017, 06:45 PM | #71 |
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Countersue? What assests or insurance does a Starbucks robber have?
Does the National Convenience Story Robbers Assocation (NCSRA) offer insurance? Now we are into the good old good samaritan story? Are you an immoral coward if you don't jump into a critical incident? We've done that (and every gun discussion forum) has done this endlessly. How many folks live a life of diminished personal pleasure or a life of poverty to give to the deserving poor? Not that many, you buy expensive toys. Immoral? But if you don't risk your life in a property crime, you are a bad person. It has become a bathetic discussion.
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November 3, 2017, 09:40 PM | #72 |
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Just to let you folks know... so far no one is suing (as I said there wouldn't be!)
Chimenti chimed back one more time: “It’s not my lawsuit. I have no intentions of suing.” http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/...174903981.html Plus my search of Fresno's filing of lawsuits shows no lawsuit filed by Ryan Flores or his 'moma'. But then Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer called the idea of Jerri being sued "ludicrous." And legal analysts commenting on the case expressed doubt that the lawsuit would go anywhere, saying that "unreasonable malice" would be difficult to prove. Finto. Deaf
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November 3, 2017, 09:46 PM | #73 | |
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November 4, 2017, 11:28 AM | #74 | |
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Quote:
Deaf
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November 4, 2017, 11:39 AM | #75 | |
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The man's actions, which were unwise from the standpoints of physical safety, criminal defense of justification, and exposure to civil liability. He seems to have beaten the odds on the first of these, but the clock runs for two years on the other two. The link to Mark MacYoung's article on this. posted previously in this thread, contains an extremely relevant real example. |
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