Anyone ever had problems with a LEO sign off?

[BerdanSS]

Our chief, who my wife and I both know on a first name basis has been retired for a year or so now. He was a level headed understanding gent. His successor, not so much on that second part. I was thinking about SBRing my (soon to be) 9mm AR pistol without a trust. But the good ol boy mayberry small town feeling has me 2nd guessing myself.

Has anyone ever had an issue getting their form signed off? It always seems to be the first thing brought up when not doing a trust, but I've never heard one person confirm it ever happening.

[Sharkbite]

A cpl years ago, when i started down the NFA hwy, i contacted my Sheriff about signing off on form 1's.

I sent 3 separate Emails and got no response. I finally called the S.O. And asked what the deal was. The very nice lady at the front desk told me the Sheriff would not sign for any NFA weapons in his county. No SBR's, no Suppressors, nothing.

This is in a small rural Colorado county. Should not be a problem, but it is.

I went the trust route and just bypassed the Sheriff. I now have 19 NFA items and LOVE EM all

[filthy phil]

Harris co Tx. wont sign

[BerdanSS]

Geeze. That's what I was worried about. I live inside a township so I'm guessing I'd be going to our town police chief instead of the sheriffs dept. That's were I had to send my "LEO Notice Copy" of my C&R form. And where my wife and I applied for our CC permits. What got me thinking about it was a comment from an office I know:

"uneducated people have a mindset that civilian (even law abiding ones) ownership of NFA items creates a more dangerous environment to the community, which causes some officials to develop a "Not it my town" attitude" and the'll stonewall you". The officer who told me that was a member of a neighboring counties police ERT.

I guess I could call and speak with someone at the department to kinda feel them out on their viewpoint. I do know our lieutenant fairly well.

[Sharkbite]

If you live in a city then the Chief of Police is your CLEO. Try a call to the PD and see what they say.

If the front desk people say something along the lines of "yeah, the Chief signs those all the time." Then youre golden. If its more like "he wont sign that kinda thing." Then start a trust and just get to buying stuff.

Looking back im glad i went the trust route regardless. The trust allows more freedom for others in the family to play with the toys and i think is a cleaner ownership platform anyway

[Machineguntony]

I know one who used to sign, but now he refuses all requests to sign because of the influx of requests. I guess they see it as a numbers game and a burden on their resources.

[Theohazard]

Here in the Puget Sound area, it's virtually impossible to get a CLEO sign-off anywhere. I've worked at two high-volume SOTs for a total of almost 3 years, and I've never once processed a sign-off or even seen it done. I'm pretty experienced at selling NFA firearms, but if someone walked into our store to buy and they told me they were getting a sign-off, I wouldn't know the details of how to do the paperwork.

[cryogenic419]

Ohio just signed into law some very pro gun reforms, one of which

Includes a “shall certify” provision which requires a chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) to sign off on an application to transfer an item regulated by the National Firearms Act, once the application procedure and requirements are met. This provision eliminates personal bias towards NFA-related items, requiring CLEOs to sign off and process the application in the same way they do a concealed handgun license.

I live in a county which has a very gun friendly CLEO and has been signing off on these things like a celebrity signing autographs. I know his predecessor was the complete opposite.

So for anyone in Ohio who might live in a county where you can't get anyone to sign...things are looking up very soon.

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/st...law-today.aspx

[BerdanSS]

Thank you all for the input. I'm going to call Monday and inquire if he will sign one. Some of the reasons I had thought about doing the non-trust route include.....

(1) I have a small family, less than 25 including immediate and extended. And while pretty much every male member has at least one firearm, 80% male and female participate in shooting sports, a few hunt.. Darn near every one of them would not ever want to be in possession of it without me present. Most of them I've talked to about it have told me an AR15 (especially a short one in 9mm) it "stupid" "pointless" and "a trivial waste of money" I have no nieces of nephews, all my siblings are older than me. And our only child has Autism. So that pretty much rules out the "family" aspect of having it in a trust as I literally have no one to leave it to or that would want to borrow it.

(2) Neither myself, or my wife would consider using a $1300+ NFA item for home defense. Not when we have a reliable HD 12ga and a 9mm glock both of which she is 2nd nature comfortable with. So that rules out my wife using it if I'm not around.

(3) $$$$$...........


Assuming that you will slam dunk get a LEO sign off....aren't those the most basic reasons to set up a trust to attain NFA items?

[Machineguntony]

The pros and cons of each NFA form of ownership can be summarized here, at the Silencer Shop web page:

http://www.silencershop.com/support/...uy-a-silencer/

[BerdanSS]

Thanks for the link tony, good cut and dried pros and cons. I honestly don't see myself wanting more than 3 NFA item though, ever. The 9mm SBR, a .22 SS and a 9mm SS.

found a link to a gun trust layer, hes running a special right now for a new asset protection gun trust at the bargain price of....

$1699


Do it yourself trust looks like good option.

[Sharkbite]

found a link to a gun trust layer, hes running a special right now for a new asset protection gun trust at the bargain price of....

$1699

Does that include 2 Suppressors and the tax stamps?? Jeezzzzz!!!!

[Sasquatch in MN]

Trusts are simple and quick to maintain and sidestep nicely the LEO signoff and definitely speeds things up for the Tax stamp.

[BerdanSS]

Well I just talked to to our town PD. They said I'm under their jurisdiction and the Chief does sign them. He was even kind enough to let me know when he'd be in to sign it. and "get cha fingers inked" and my ffl has been sent as of today so I should have the lower on the 7th of Jan.

I was also really lucky to find an engraving/etching/machine shop locally, just 20 min from me. They do "while you wait" SBR engraving for $25. As soon as I said the material needing engraved was aluminum, with specs as to the depth, height and font.....he chuckled a little and said "you need a lower engraved for SRB don't you, bring it on in...we do several every week"

[Sharkbite]

Dude... Thats AWESOME on a bunch of levels. The CLEO sign-off is a good thing to hear. So often i hear the opposite.

You should still look into the trust. With a trust you can E-file your form 1 and approvals for thise is running about 6-8 WEEKS now. A paper form, thats whats needed with a CLEO signature will run about 6-8 MONTHS.

My last 2 form 1 SBR's efiled and approved in 38 day. Just sayin, why wait??

[BerdanSS]

Is the Efile back up? I heard ATF was no longer accepting electronically submitted form 1s after April 2014.

Whats the "best" self created trust to use? I know they'er not ideal by any means, but I don't really want to spend even $600 on forming a trust with an attorney, considering my circumstances. I know legal zoom is like $269.99

[Sharkbite]

E-file was down for a bit but is back up for Form1 & 3's. Not form 4's yet. The op is talking about engraving an AR lower so that means a form1 and yes you can efile a form1 with a trust

Go to 199trust.com. I think the current price is like $99. NFA specific trusts are pretty easy. A lot of guys do it themselves with Quicken will maker. Id rather pay someone that actually knows what they are doing and save any grief down the road.

[BerdanSS]

Sharkbite

Is 199trust.com what you used? The form they use seems unbelievably basic and generic. It a little worrisome considering some of the horror stories I've read about using generic forms for gun trusts. I'd feel better if someone else on here has used them and could give me some details of the end result using 199trust.

[punkinhead]

Originally Posted by BerdanSS

Sharkbite

Is 199trust.com what you used? The form they use seems unbelievably basic and generic. It a little worrisome considering some of the horror stories I've read about using generic forms for gun trusts. I'd feel better if someone else on here has used them and could give me some details of the end result using 199trust.

I haven't read any horror stories about using generic trusts for gun trusts. Believe me, I looked before setting mine up. All I found were vague warnings on the websites of a couple lawyers who appear to specialize in gun trusts, but not a single horror story.

[Skans]

The reasons why many CLEO's won't sign off anymore is because some of them got burned. I recall one incident where an NFA friendly CLEO used to routinely sign off on all NFA transfers, but when the media made a big stink about his signing off on one to permit a wife-beater to get a machine gun, that made him rethink it. He still signed off, but did a real "hands-on" background investigation before doing so. The bottom line - signing off on NFA transfers is not "politically expedient" in most places. And CLEO's are political creatures.

[BerdanSS]

Well I guess I'm not saying all basic DIY trust. I was just saying that particular one seemed extra basic. Most the horror story's are in regard to trustees and beneficiaries (which now that I think about it, I don't have any) I guess I'm just still on the fence. I have absolutely not one "real" correct reason for creating a trust to place property in. I've almost talked myself to death from both sides to the point of almost saying leave the dang thing as a pistol.

Assumption:
Lets assume that I get the receiver on the 8th. I then (fully documented) built the receiver into a pistol. Fill out and print my form 1, take it over to the PD and get it signed, get my fingers inked. Take the form 1 attach a mug shot. Then take my lower to be engraved, with the lower in hand correctly engraved an form 1 matching. I mail the form. I get approved and receive my tax stamp.

Question:
Years or even months down the road, I decide I'm going to add a couple SBRs a few more suppressors and who knows what else. And I decide to create a trust can I place that NFA item in the trust without refiling another form 1 and paying a 2nd tax stamp on the same firearm?

[punkinhead]

My understanding is if you get a tax stamp in your name then later want to put the iterm into a trust you need to pay for a new tax stamp. My local LEO has no problem signing for NFA items. My main reasons for creating a trust was to be able to use the Eform system and to allow my son to be a trustee and use the stuff without me present. My first Form 1 stamp took over a year using the paper based process even with the trust. My second one took 3 months via Eform. I'm getting ready to file a 3rd for a 300BLK suppressor.

In my case I'm comfortable with a boilerplate trust because I'm making the suppressors myself so I don't have much money invested. A friend of mine has several machine guns that combined are worth about half as much as my house. That's a different story and it's worth getting a purpose made trust specific to his circumstances.

[Sharkbite]

OP.

No i did not use 199trust.com. I had a Lawyer draft it. Cost me about $400. After that point i learned about 199trust.com

Im on another forum that has a lot of NFA stuff on it and lots of those guys have used 199trust.com. Not a single complaint. I would have used them if id learned about their service before i shelled out 4x the cost.

A NFA only trust is pretty basic. Dont sweat that part.

As for changing your SBR from you to the trust, somebody nailed it above. If its owned by you personally and then you want to transfer it to a trust. Another form 4 needs to be submitted, with another $200 tax stamp paid for.

My advice is to go the easiest and FASTEST route. Get a trust set up, E-file your form 1, in about a month you will be all set and rockin that SBR.

You can set the gun up as a pistol during the wait. If its a new lower, Id advise you to set it up as a pistol and fully function test the gun BEFORE doing the form 1. Nothing would suck worse the. Building on a virgin lower...doing the form 1 and then finding out the receiver is out of spec somehow. Total waste of time and money. Although i guess you could cancel the Form1 and get a refund. I dont know how that works. Best to build on a known good lower.

If you want...shoot me a PM and i'll give you my #. Im always willing to help someone get into NFA stuff. I think we should all be able to just walk into a store and walk out with a Suppressor or SBR. i can walk out with a rifle or a pistol but not the accessory for it .....STUPID!!!!!

[Tom Servo]

It a little worrisome considering some of the horror stories I've read about using generic forms for gun trusts.

I don't have any first-hand experience with it, but given the gravity of the situation, I'd pay to have a lawyer make sure it's airtight. Many of the NFA trust lawyers will cover any potential oopsies with their malpractice insurance, and there's some peace of mind to be had in that.

My understanding is if you get a tax stamp in your name then later want to put the iterm into a trust you need to pay for a new tax stamp.

That's correct. It's being transferred from one entity to the other.

The reasons why many CLEO's won't sign off anymore is because some of them got burned.

That, or they heard about someone getting burned. As per 27 CFR 479.63, the CLEO must provide a certificate that states,

the certifying official is satisfied that the fingerprints and photograph accompanying the application are those of the applicant and that the certifying official has no information indicating that possession of the firearm by the maker would be in violation of State or local law or that the maker will use the firearm for other than lawful purposes.

Some CLEO's are nervous that the last bit carries some level of potential liability.

[BerdanSS]

I should of figured s much on the tax stamp. I defiantly planned on building the lower as a pistol. I already have all of the lower parts in hand and waiting, i just need the barrel and bolt for the upper. Thanks for the info sharkbite im guessing you can set up a trust with only two people? Myself trust under myself and my wife as the trustee and beneficiary as my son isnt someone i can list.