Ar-15 14.5 barrel vs 16 barrel?

newo38 · December 3, 2017, 04:01 PM

I am considering an AR and read about ar's with a 14.5 inch barrel and a permanently attached flash suppressor to avoid sbr status.

However, I have not seen any company selling ar's in this configuration. It seems you have to buy a barrel separately and then add it to an existing AR.

Why? Doesn't it seem like this would be an attractive option that ar makers would produce? It is 2.5 inched shorter right?

turtlehead · December 3, 2017, 04:48 PM

1.5".

I'll bet BCM has them. Don't really know. The slightly shorter length doesn't seem worth the limitations to me.

Theohazard · December 3, 2017, 05:08 PM

Off the top of my head, I can tell you that Daniel Defense, BCM, LWRC, and Noveske all make full rifles with 14.5” barrels and pinned-and-welded flash hiders (well, LWRC’s are 14.7” barrels, but close enough).

And a quick Google search finds several others: Spikes Tactical, Troy Industries, Salient Arms, and LaRue make them too. And I’ll bet there are others, my search was pretty brief.

DubC-Hicks · December 3, 2017, 05:19 PM

Faxon makes lightweight 14.5s with pinned and welded Slim brakes and flash hiders. Only .620 inches wide so you can slip a gas block and barrel nut over it still.

And Voodoo makes a barrel with a Manimal flash hider that's .750 inches wide so you can slip the stuff over it as well.

G.barnes · December 3, 2017, 06:47 PM

If your new to ar's get the 16". That way if you want to change things around you can. One problem with a permanent brake is that they usually piss of people shooting next to you and you have no way to change it without a lot of work.

Carne Frio · December 3, 2017, 06:56 PM

I have a Ruger SR556C. The barrel length is 16.1 inch,
including the permanent flash hider. It is milled into the barrel.

Charlie98 · December 3, 2017, 08:56 PM

I don't get the 14.5" barrel... the overall length is still 16", you might as well get that additional 1.5" of performance.

DubC-Hicks · December 3, 2017, 09:28 PM

The overall length is still 16", yes. But the overall length of a 16"+ flash hider is 17.5". If you're doing that, you might as well step up to an 18" barrel for the extra performance, but then you're at 19.5. See where I'm going with this?

The difference between 14.5 and 16 seems negligible, but it feels a lot different when you're holding the rifle.

Mobuck · December 3, 2017, 09:33 PM

"I don't get the 14.5" barrel... the overall length is still 16", you might as well get that additional 1.5" of performance."

DITTO
Why not just leave off the muzzle device and use a thread protector? I have a couple of TP's that do a good job of protecting the crown.

TimW77 · December 3, 2017, 09:49 PM

As others have said, I don't get the 14.5" barrels with pinned/welded flash suppressors...

To me at least they have all the DISADVANTAGES of a 14.5" barrel and none of the advantages and at the same time all the DISADVANTAGES of a 16" barrel and none of it's advantages...

T

turtlehead · December 3, 2017, 10:43 PM

Am putting together a new upper with a 16" BA pencil barrel. Have had a V7 thread protector for 5 years but have never used it. It's mocked up on the upper right now and I can feel the difference between it and a 2.2 oz A2 flash hider. Might not seem like much but it is noticeable. Looking forward to shooting it to see how the blast is.

marine6680 · December 3, 2017, 11:57 PM

I think the difference is closer to an inch...

You need to use a slightly longer flash hider as the standard is not long enough on its own, or a slightly longer than 14.5in barrel to get the final length right.

This subtracts from the difference.

I stick with 16in barrels, as the difference to a 14.5 is minor, and the disadvantage of the 14.5 is enough to not want to deal with.

hdwhit · December 4, 2017, 12:16 AM

Quote:

newo38 wrote:
I am considering an AR and read about ar's with a 14.5 inch barrel and a permanently attached flash suppressor to avoid sbr status.

Why?

You're still at a 16 inch overall length and yet you have scarified the the additional velocity and accuracy (small as it may be) from the longer barrel. And what have you gained?

Unless you're intention is to get the rifle in the stated configuration and then take a pipe cutter to it and spin off that "pinned and welded" extension so that you have an unregistered short barreled rifle, I can see no reason for wanting to do this. And if your plan IS to create an unregistered SBR, then you are a criminal.

odugrad · December 4, 2017, 07:52 AM

I'm with DubC-Hicks. The difference is noticeable. My favorite ARs are 14.5.

Mobuck · December 4, 2017, 08:18 AM

I just replaced the flash hider on my EDC AR 16" carbine with a "blast forwarder"(fancy name for questionable results IMHO) that is slightly shorter than a normal FH. I wish it had a rounded nose profile(this may change by next year if I can get it chucked into my "Polish lathe") but at least I can cover the muzzle with a piece of tape now. The good thing is, it protects the crown perfectly.

Charlie98 · December 4, 2017, 09:47 AM

Quote:

The overall length is still 16", yes. But the overall length of a 16"+ flash hider is 17.5".

No, the 14.5" uses a different muzzle device (longer) to arrive at the 16" mark, the standard bird cage flash hider is shorter. I understand we are splitting hairs here. I feel 16" is about the best balance between portability and performance (I have a 16" M1a that mirrors this belief, too.) I don't care for the muzzle blast and flash of the shorter barrel, and cartridge performance decreases markedly below the 16" length. Just my experience.

I guess it depends on what you are going to do with it. If all you are going to do is burn ammo at short ranges, any length will do. If you are looking to make it perform at 100yds or more... well, the longer the better.

rickyrick · December 4, 2017, 12:58 PM

The main reason given for a 14.5” barrel that I’ve seen is because the 16” barrel looks funny with a carbine handguard. The rest say it’s to get the original barrel length to gas system length ratio that the M4 had.

CalmerThanYou · December 4, 2017, 02:00 PM

Just a way to achieve minimum legal and have a good flash suppressor. Pretty simple and a matter of preference. My DD came pinned and I have no intent to change a thing until I wear out the barrel.

Uncle Malice · December 4, 2017, 02:31 PM

Quote:

No, the 14.5" uses a different muzzle device (longer) to arrive at the 16" mark

This depends entirely on who put the upper together. For example, if you get the Ruger SR-556 C version, it has what is basically Rugers version of a standard A2 style flash hider milled right into the barrel. Some others will include the BCM flash hider, or others. You can put just about whatever you want on it, as long as it meets the length. There are plenty that are long enough. There isn't really a standard, special length version used specifically on 14.5 barrels.

DubC-Hicks · December 4, 2017, 02:41 PM

Yeah, and 14.7" barrels only require a standard A2 flash hider to make 16.1". Just like all things under the sun, it's personal preference.

shep854 · December 4, 2017, 03:16 PM

Ballistically, 14.5 over 16 inches never made much sense to me, but I can see the attraction of a 14.5 with permanent flash suppressor to closely resemble the military M4.

Theohazard · December 4, 2017, 05:34 PM

The military picked 14.5" because it offers a good compromise between velocity and compactness. Unless you need the extra velocity provided by a longer barrel, I really like the 14.5" barrel length. In that case, there are only two main reasons not to go with a 14.5": the trouble and cost of the smithing (if you're building the rifle), and the worry that you might want to switch out the muzzle device.

Well, during my last build, I worked at a shop that had a good gunsmith, so it was super convenient and the cost was negligible. And I have a SilencerCo Saker, so I have no plans to switch out the muzzle device on my upper to a different one. But if I want to change it in the future, the gunsmith at the shop where I currently work can switch it out easily and cheaply for me.

I have to say, the 1.5" shorter barrel on my 14.5" AR makes a noticeable difference in handling with a heavy-duty silencer like the Saker attached. I don't think I'll ever go back to 16" barrels again. When I eventually build a longer range AR, I'll go with an 18" barrel or longer.

I can totally understand why someone wouldn't want to deal with the extra cost and hassle of a pin-and-weld. But for those of us with easy access to good gunsmithing who don't need the small amount of extra velocity and don't plan on changing out muzzle devices very often, the 14.5" is nice.

Theohazard · December 4, 2017, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdwhit

Why?

You're still at a 16 inch overall length and yet you have scarified the the additional velocity and accuracy (small as it may be) from the longer barrel. And what have you gained?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I gained a rifle that handles a little bit better better in the close confines of my house, and is noticeably less muzzle-heavy with my Saker attached. Sure, 1.5" doesn't seem like much, but with an 18 oz. weight hanging off the end, that 1.5" makes a noticeable difference in handling.

On a side note, barrel length has no direct effect on accuracy, so you're not necessarily losing accuracy with the shorter barrel. And for me, the small velocity loss wasn't an issue for the purposes of this rifle. If I need more velocity in the future, I'll build an 18" or 20" upper.

Grumpy_Bottom · December 4, 2017, 09:30 PM

PSA has a 14.7" Pinned and Welded kit as well

mellow_c · December 6, 2017, 01:25 AM

I'm with Grumpy!

PSA has 14.7 inch cold hammer forged double thick chrome lined FN barrels, available at times as rifle kits or assembled uppers. They then have the pinned and welded A2 flash hider so its just barley over 16". They are midlength gas systems.

I think the shortness of that setup has an actual noticeable advantage over standard 16" + muzzle device setups if your concerned about using the rifle indoors or from a vehicle or anything like that, and with a fully collapsible stock it really makes for a pretty short AR (as short as you can get) without it being an SBR or pistol.

And in my opinion, there is no reason to use anything but a standard A2 flash hider unless you're really into fast competition type shooting where a muzzle break really shines. I'd stay away from a muzzle break for defensive purposes because of the extra noise. So I think the 14.7" set up really makes a lot of sense and I would encourage you to go that rout if you want. And I would strongly recommend trying to find something (that particular FN barrel I mentioned above) through PSA, although they may not always have what your looking for in stock. They are good quality barrels and are priced well for what your getting!

December 3, 2017, 04:01 PM	#1
newo38 Junior Member Join Date: May 5, 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 5	Ar-15 14.5 barrel vs 16 barrel? I am considering an AR and read about ar's with a 14.5 inch barrel and a permanently attached flash suppressor to avoid sbr status. However, I have not seen any company selling ar's in this configuration. It seems you have to buy a barrel separately and then add it to an existing AR. Why? Doesn't it seem like this would be an attractive option that ar makers would produce? It is 2.5 inched shorter right?

December 3, 2017, 05:08 PM	#3
Theohazard Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,829	Off the top of my head, I can tell you that Daniel Defense, BCM, LWRC, and Noveske all make full rifles with 14.5” barrels and pinned-and-welded flash hiders (well, LWRC’s are 14.7” barrels, but close enough). And a quick Google search finds several others: Spikes Tactical, Troy Industries, Salient Arms, and LaRue make them too. And I’ll bet there are others, my search was pretty brief. __________________ 0331: "Accuracy by volume."

December 3, 2017, 05:19 PM	#4
DubC-Hicks Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Backwoods, Northern MI Posts: 1,031	Faxon makes lightweight 14.5s with pinned and welded Slim brakes and flash hiders. Only .620 inches wide so you can slip a gas block and barrel nut over it still. And Voodoo makes a barrel with a Manimal flash hider that's .750 inches wide so you can slip the stuff over it as well. __________________ ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown

December 3, 2017, 08:56 PM	#7
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	I don't get the 14.5" barrel... the overall length is still 16", you might as well get that additional 1.5" of performance. __________________ _______________ "I have this pistol pointed at your heart!" "That is my least vulnerable spot."

December 3, 2017, 09:28 PM	#8
DubC-Hicks Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Backwoods, Northern MI Posts: 1,031	The overall length is still 16", yes. But the overall length of a 16"+ flash hider is 17.5". If you're doing that, you might as well step up to an 18" barrel for the extra performance, but then you're at 19.5. See where I'm going with this? The difference between 14.5 and 16 seems negligible, but it feels a lot different when you're holding the rifle. __________________ ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown

December 3, 2017, 04:48 PM	#2
turtlehead Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2015 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,203	1.5". I'll bet BCM has them. Don't really know. The slightly shorter length doesn't seem worth the limitations to me.

December 3, 2017, 06:47 PM	#5
G.barnes Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2011 Posts: 182	If your new to ar's get the 16". That way if you want to change things around you can. One problem with a permanent brake is that they usually piss of people shooting next to you and you have no way to change it without a lot of work.

December 3, 2017, 06:56 PM	#6
Carne Frio Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2008 Location: Near Fairbanks Alaska Posts: 829	I have a Ruger SR556C. The barrel length is 16.1 inch, including the permanent flash hider. It is milled into the barrel.

December 3, 2017, 09:33 PM	#9
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"I don't get the 14.5" barrel... the overall length is still 16", you might as well get that additional 1.5" of performance." DITTO Why not just leave off the muzzle device and use a thread protector? I have a couple of TP's that do a good job of protecting the crown.

December 3, 2017, 09:49 PM	#10
TimW77 Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2008 Posts: 485	As others have said, I don't get the 14.5" barrels with pinned/welded flash suppressors... To me at least they have all the DISADVANTAGES of a 14.5" barrel and none of the advantages and at the same time all the DISADVANTAGES of a 16" barrel and none of it's advantages... T

December 3, 2017, 10:43 PM	#11
turtlehead Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2015 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,203	Am putting together a new upper with a 16" BA pencil barrel. Have had a V7 thread protector for 5 years but have never used it. It's mocked up on the upper right now and I can feel the difference between it and a 2.2 oz A2 flash hider. Might not seem like much but it is noticeable. Looking forward to shooting it to see how the blast is.

December 3, 2017, 11:57 PM	#12
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	I think the difference is closer to an inch... You need to use a slightly longer flash hider as the standard is not long enough on its own, or a slightly longer than 14.5in barrel to get the final length right. This subtracts from the difference. I stick with 16in barrels, as the difference to a 14.5 is minor, and the disadvantage of the 14.5 is enough to not want to deal with.

December 4, 2017, 07:52 AM	#14
odugrad Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2013 Location: The East Coast Posts: 477	I'm with DubC-Hicks. The difference is noticeable. My favorite ARs are 14.5.

December 4, 2017, 08:18 AM	#15
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I just replaced the flash hider on my EDC AR 16" carbine with a "blast forwarder"(fancy name for questionable results IMHO) that is slightly shorter than a normal FH. I wish it had a rounded nose profile(this may change by next year if I can get it chucked into my "Polish lathe") but at least I can cover the muzzle with a piece of tape now. The good thing is, it protects the crown perfectly.

December 4, 2017, 12:58 PM	#17
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	The main reason given for a 14.5” barrel that I’ve seen is because the 16” barrel looks funny with a carbine handguard. The rest say it’s to get the original barrel length to gas system length ratio that the M4 had.

December 4, 2017, 02:00 PM	#18
CalmerThanYou Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2017 Posts: 323	Just a way to achieve minimum legal and have a good flash suppressor. Pretty simple and a matter of preference. My DD came pinned and I have no intent to change a thing until I wear out the barrel.

December 4, 2017, 02:41 PM	#20
DubC-Hicks Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Backwoods, Northern MI Posts: 1,031	Yeah, and 14.7" barrels only require a standard A2 flash hider to make 16.1". Just like all things under the sun, it's personal preference. __________________ ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown

December 4, 2017, 03:16 PM	#21
shep854 Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2004 Location: Birmingham AL Posts: 632	Ballistically, 14.5 over 16 inches never made much sense to me, but I can see the attraction of a 14.5 with permanent flash suppressor to closely resemble the military M4. __________________ Powder smoke- The Smell of FREEDOM! I don't shoot to kill; I shoot to live. Registration? NEVER!!

December 4, 2017, 05:34 PM	#22
Theohazard Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,829	The military picked 14.5" because it offers a good compromise between velocity and compactness. Unless you need the extra velocity provided by a longer barrel, I really like the 14.5" barrel length. In that case, there are only two main reasons not to go with a 14.5": the trouble and cost of the smithing (if you're building the rifle), and the worry that you might want to switch out the muzzle device. Well, during my last build, I worked at a shop that had a good gunsmith, so it was super convenient and the cost was negligible. And I have a SilencerCo Saker, so I have no plans to switch out the muzzle device on my upper to a different one. But if I want to change it in the future, the gunsmith at the shop where I currently work can switch it out easily and cheaply for me. I have to say, the 1.5" shorter barrel on my 14.5" AR makes a noticeable difference in handling with a heavy-duty silencer like the Saker attached. I don't think I'll ever go back to 16" barrels again. When I eventually build a longer range AR, I'll go with an 18" barrel or longer. I can totally understand why someone wouldn't want to deal with the extra cost and hassle of a pin-and-weld. But for those of us with easy access to good gunsmithing who don't need the small amount of extra velocity and don't plan on changing out muzzle devices very often, the 14.5" is nice. __________________ 0331: "Accuracy by volume." Last edited by Theohazard; December 4, 2017 at 05:46 PM.

December 4, 2017, 09:30 PM	#24
Grumpy_Bottom Member Join Date: January 30, 2014 Posts: 75	PSA has a 14.7" Pinned and Welded kit as well

December 6, 2017, 01:25 AM	#25
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	I'm with Grumpy! PSA has 14.7 inch cold hammer forged double thick chrome lined FN barrels, available at times as rifle kits or assembled uppers. They then have the pinned and welded A2 flash hider so its just barley over 16". They are midlength gas systems. I think the shortness of that setup has an actual noticeable advantage over standard 16" + muzzle device setups if your concerned about using the rifle indoors or from a vehicle or anything like that, and with a fully collapsible stock it really makes for a pretty short AR (as short as you can get) without it being an SBR or pistol. And in my opinion, there is no reason to use anything but a standard A2 flash hider unless you're really into fast competition type shooting where a muzzle break really shines. I'd stay away from a muzzle break for defensive purposes because of the extra noise. So I think the 14.7" set up really makes a lot of sense and I would encourage you to go that rout if you want. And I would strongly recommend trying to find something (that particular FN barrel I mentioned above) through PSA, although they may not always have what your looking for in stock. They are good quality barrels and are priced well for what your getting!