Some advice requested: shady subject at LEO house

[dogtown tom]

1. Automatic/motion detecting lighting
2. Alarm system w/ panic feature
3. Dogs
4. Unfriendly shrubbery around windows (holly or other bushes with thorns/stickers)
5. Hand strengthening exercises.

[jmhyer]

The Sig 238 (and maybe the 938, too) is known for an easy-to-manipulate slide.

[James K]

A good quality DA/SA revolver should solve the problem of needing strength to manipulate a defense weapon. Something like an S&W Model 10 .38 revolver can be loaded and fired by almost anyone with average strength and the hammer can be easily cocked by almost anyone. (Precautions would need to be taken if children are present in the house.)

Such guns are often available at local gun shops at relatively low cost and will (with a speedloader or two) handle just about any self defense situation.

Be sure, though, that she knows the laws on the possession and use of firearms in home and self defense, something you are in a position to help her with.

Jim

[Jim Watson]

So you are recommending a revolver be shot SA?
I know of a couple of home ventilating ADs by ladies who figured out it was a lot easier to shoot if they eared back that prominent hammer.

I have seen more than one lady running a DA/SA auto or DA revolver with both forefingers on the trigger.

I know two ladies who had trouble racking the slide. One picked a gun easier to manipulate. The other would grit her teeth and haul back the slide once per session. After that, the gun was either loaded and safed, loaded and being shot, or empty with the slide open.

[5whiskey]

Alright, as to the actual firearm manipulation issue... Go over to PAX's cornered cat site. My wife could not rack a semi auto slide at all until we tried methods taught there. She is a born natural shot but had issues manipulating semi-auto slides. Cornered cat's methods taught her how.

Second off, and more importantly, I would absolutely invest in way to "harden" yourselves as targets. Dogs, lighting, alarm systems have all been discussed. I would also research window pins, security film, and door/door jam reinforcement. There are ways to make windows almost smash proof, and doors almost kick proof. They aren't terribly expensive either.

Finally, you would rightly be at a much higher security alert level right now. I say this as LEO myself, who has been threatened numerous times from folks I've made cases on. Don't forget systematic security measures. Keep doors locked at all times. Talk to the local cops and explain the situation. Keep a long gun accessible. Keep lights bright outside, dim inside (makes seeing inside more difficult). Motion sensors placed outside that chime inside are very inexpensive. Don't take this lightly. I've had threats made against me. But I've never had perps knock on my doors/windows repeatedly. It could be kids being stupid, or it could be much worse.

[cannonfire]

"...the gun came SUPER stiff, and more breaking in of the spring..." All new firearms require a trigger job out of the box due to frivolous law suits. There's no such thing as "breaking in a spring".

Ok, I guess the gun didn't loosen up after several hundred rounds. My mistake

"...why knock and do it?..." Assuming it is kids, teasing adults is fun. You never play Nicky Nine Doors as a kid?

Right, which is why I mentioned #1 in that post about kids being kids.

"...bought my fiancé a..." She have anything to do with the selection

Yes, which is why I said she picked the Shield.

"...She's too small..." Your lady's size has nothing to do with it. Had a small statured female in my CF Army Cadet Corps who could shoot circles around most of the great big lump males with an FN C1A1(Cdn. FAL of about 12 pounds empty.) or a No. 4 Lee-Enfield.

Right. Sooo the fact that when she picks up my VP9 with medium backstrap, she can barely get the tip of her finger onto the trigger? That's why different guns fit different people.

I appreciate the response and obviously you have a lot of experience by looking at your post count. But your post does not help in any meaningful way. I'm asking for advice about other people's experiences on how to handle a situation with my fiance and a HD weapon.

[cannonfire]

Wyosmith,

Well for home defense a carbine is always going to be better than a handgun. As a former Marine I am a bit surprised you didn't come to the same conclusion.

In all honesty, I don't know why I haven't thought more about a carbine of sorts. I guess because my only AR isn't exactly set up for HD and I was thinking "night stand gun" which to me is a pistol and I guess my train of thought was pistol pistol pistol. But a lightweight 12" bbl AR with brace may be an answer. We were at the range today and she showed interest in a sub2000, which I thought may be an interesting choice as well.

Handguns are best for immediate reactions, and long arms are best for responses in a few seconds more. And remember, it's 100% OK to pick up both. A handgun in a paddle holster or even one to tuck into your belt is OK to have on you when you are going to fight. I always did so when I was a Marnie. But get the rifle first!

I don't think truer words have been spoken. Semper Fi


Thank you all for all the great responses, especially about Pax's website, and all of the other options we may have in this situation. Thanks again for your help

[HiBC]

I like AR's,a 16" pencil barrel with an entry length or collapsible stock can be pretty easy to handle,and while by many standards,the AR might be "better,"
for any number of reasons, some that I might not understand(so what!!)
She might figure its not right for her.

There IS another pretty good rifle out there. You have to pay a bit more than they are worth,IMO...but a good specimen of a GI M1 Carbine has a "cute" and "fun" factor that will encourage familiarity. .Its light,short,easy to handle. Slide racking is easy.
And its intended role was to arm non-combatants.

Hornady makes Critical Defense rounds . Just look over the top,point it and start clanking.
A 20 gauge Benelli would certainly work.

On the AR "Handgun" configurations: I have never owned one. Based on the origin of it being designed as a 20 in rifle, I suggest the short barrels,buffer tubes.and gas system area stretch from the original design.

I'm not saying the don't work. I'm saying it MAY take some time to figure out exactly what ammo they work with. I'd want some proving time with one.Seems like you have a problem to deal with in the present.

I'd still say the handgun you have on your body in a holster is the one you can reach.
If this person crosses the line,"Going to get the long gun" might not be an option. But,agreed,I'd rather fight with a carbine of maybe a Benelli.
It can be argued that the aggressor can grab and take control of a long gun easier.Something to think about.

Somebody said a handgun is for fighting your way to your rifle.

[Coloradohtr]

First off, Semper Fi brother. I was a Marine for 9 years. I'm also a firarms instructor and work at a local gun store and sell ALOT of firearms on a daily basis. I see this slide racking problem alot with women and older people. Another problem I see is people drawing their pistol and attempt to fire but they forget to take the manual safety off.

The best firearm for those problems would be a double action only revolver. Smith and Wesson 642 airweight or a Ruger LCR loaded up with some .38spl +p ammo would be a good choice for her. +p ammo isn't really needed but it does give you more stopping power almost about the same as a .357 mag which is one of the best person stoppers around. The pistols are point and shoot. No racking or safety other than that heavy douple action trigger pull. All she has to do is point and squeeze. They are also hammerless so they will not snag on a piece of clothing or inside a purse. She can even fire from inside a jacket pocket or purse with out it jamming. She wouldn't even have to draw and present the weapon. Just point and shoot. Both of those pistols are among our top sellers for those reasons. I have alot of friends who are LEOs and they carry them as back ups. Have her try one out. Also train with her more. The more she shoots the better. Muscle memory. Just like in the Marines. I hope this helps.

[dontcatchmany]

Thank you those who served for your service. 69yo Vietnam Veteran here.

I have the Shield 40 and for the 2-3 months that I have had it and approximately 750 ish rounds, I find the slide very difficult to rack. I have 8 other semis and do not have a bit of problem with any of them.

I had a Sig P938 and the slide on it was very easy to manipulate and it was a very good shooter, however it started dropping magazines and the safety would go from fire to safe and even after getting it fixed I had lost confidence with it.

For the time being I will stick with the Shield because I love a challenge and am bound and determined to make it work, but I have considered getting rid of it and getting a FNS Compact.

My wife is not one to want to operate a semi automatic so she purchased a Ruger in 327 Federal Magnum and likes to shoot my Ruger SP101 with 38 spcl

[old bear]

Either keep a loaded round in the camber of her Shield or get the lady a double action revolver.

Best of luck, I hope everything turns out for the best.

[kraigwy]

Dogs are nice. I have to large dogs and they set out a warning for every rabbit, cat, deer, mole, plastic bag blowing in the wind, that pass by the place.

Cameras are nice, they'll let the police know who did what, a hand gun would prevent it.

Long guns are nice, but they are normally stored somewhere else, a hand gun can be kept on the person. And they are cumbersome when doing to things at once, such as having it in your hand while calling the sheriff.

DO NOT buy into the hype she doesn't need to work the slide if its chambered already. I person needs a gun they can load, unload, and feel totally comfortable with.

Take her to a range/gun store that lets her try different guns. Let her pick what works for her.

We can recommend this and that, which works great fur us, but that doesn't me it will work for her.

[OzeanJaeger]

You probably put all your autos into battery slingshot (as do I). That's the way it's taught most places and is considered a little safer because the barrel stays completely downrange. But, that's not the only way to do it. She might do better manipulating the slide with her whole hand on it press method. It gives a lot more grip and leverage than the slingshot.

Everyone is different. Certainly worth a try.

[Jim Watson]

Everybody seems bent on helping her spend more money on a different gun.
Assuming the techniques recommended in Cornered Cat don't let her rack the slide with some degree of authority (has she tried them?), let's spend less money on a gimmick.

There are sights with square front faces meant to be used to rack the slide one handed against a tabletop, doorframe, or boot heel.
https://dawsonprecision.com/dawson-p...r-optic-front/
https://www.heinie.com/4096l-heinies...ht-night-sight

What do you (and she) think of that? Can she rack the gun with a good grip on the butt and you holding the slide?

[Theohazard]

In my experience, most men don’t manipulate the slide in the “proper” way. And that’s because they don’t need to; they have sufficient arm strength that it doesn’t matter how they rack it. But then they teach women this improper method, and those women often have trouble racking the slide as a result.

I have had many, many experienced instructors tell me that they’ve never encountered an able-bodied woman who couldn’t be taught to manipulate almost any slide. Check out the previous link to Pax’ (Kathy Jackson’s) website that shows the best way to rack a slide.

[Areoflyer09]

If the techniques mentioned don’t solve the problem, I’ve run across several pistols that have slides that are easier to rack than my PPQ.

-Walther CCP & PK380
-Sig 938
-Springfield Armory XDE
-Tanfoglio Pavona - my wife has one of these which will become her carry choice when she decides she is ready for that path

I keep my PPQ in the headboard but it’s job isn’t primarily to stop the threat, but to stop any threat between me and my rifle.

Have you tried a youth model shotgun for size? It may fit her better than a full size model. A smaller AR could work as well, assuming she is willing to learn it.

My wife & I have been working on what works and what doesn’t work this year. ARs don’t work for us. She has no interest in them at all. She wasn’t going to learn to use one and I knew better than to force the issue. Shotguns are an option but we don’t have anywhere local to practice using it. The temporary stop gap is my .357 Henry, because we own it and can both use it without issue. Still not an ideal solution, but I felt it was better than just a pistol or her preference of bolt actions.

[Aikibiker]

I like those sights for her shield someone suggested above.

Another option might be a S&W M&P 22 compact. They are light, the slide functions with minimal effort, and it has a rail to add a light and or LASER easily.

The Kel-tec PMR 30 might be another option in the same concept with the added plus of 30 rounds of .22 magnum ammo.

[BarryLee]

As for specific guns a S&W Model 19 or Model 66 loaded with .38 +P is good advice. These are .357 Magnum guns, but have smaller frames than some other models which should make them easier to hold. As mentioned earlier using the .38 +P ammo should give you the power you need without using .357 Magnum ammo which can be quite harsh.

[pax]

cannonfire,

I'm a bit late to the party, but ... hopefully the website, and especially the 'rack the slide' page, was helpful to you & to her.

May I suggest a Christmas present for your fiancee and yourself? That would be a formal, professional defensive firearms training class.

If you choose to go that route, it will be an investment. The going rate for such classes is around $200/person/day. Some are a little less, some a little more -- but beware of anything very far below that base rate, as the lower priced classes tend to be (aren't always, but tend to be) local instructors who may not be able to provide the level of care you and your fiancee need at this point in your learning cycles.

The advantage of getting yourself and her into such a class is two-fold (at least!).

1) She will have the advantage of working with someone who has taught many, many people how to run their guns with confidence. Before the class is over, she will be racking the slide without even thinking about it -- and loading/unloading, clearing malfunctions, moving with the gun in hand, and lots of other things too. The advantages in confidence and self-assurance that go with this really can't be overstated, and will go a long way toward providing peace of mind for both of you.

2) In a good class, you will have opportunity to discuss your specific needs face to face with someone who does this for a living, and who can directly assess your/your fiancee's specific needs and strengths as you figure out what your plans are moving forward. This, too, can be a huge advantage.

Oh, one more advantage of going the class route: it's fun! A good class will be a lot of hard work (and planning, and a busy weekend and everything that goes with that) -- but it's time well-spent and can be truly enjoyable.

Also, you and she might find that you grow closer over the weekend, and you will be surprised at how many meaningful conversations you enjoy both with each other and with your classmates. The chances are that there are many subjects related to armed self-defense that you've just not had time or ... prompting? impetus? ... to explore with your fiancee yet. A good class can help you find the areas you need to talk about together, and give you ideas for lots of other conversations you will likely have in the weeks and months following that class.

Yes -- I AM suggesting this even though you are a LEO and even though you spent eight years in the Marine Corps. Although it might be tempting to just send your fiancee to class, you'll find that a class intended for non-LEO, non-military people will hit several different mindset issues that would be very helpful in terms of getting you both on the same page. And whatever else you've taught or told her, it can certainly help to have reinforced by another person who has the skills and ability to teach. By taking the class with her, you'll be able to assess the context and quality of the instruction she gets and you'll be able to more helpfully discuss areas of difference if there are any.

Whether or not you go the class route, I strongly suggest you download and read the following pdf link: https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org...ayes_SDLaw.pdf

In that pdf, you will find very, VERY important information about what to do (and what not to do) before, during, and after a self-defense shooting to give yourselves the best possible footing for staying out of legal trouble.

Hope all of this helps!

pax

[Edited to add a link: https://www.corneredcat.com/what-does-training-cost/ -- that's a blog post on my website that provides a list of nationally-known trainers and/or schools along with their prices as of 2015. No stinkers on the list.]

[T. O'Heir]

"...motion sensor lights..." Yep. Nothing scares a cowardly criminal faster than lights suddenly coming on. Except maybe a dog.
"...#8 Spears and lances..." Aren't the same thing. A spear was typically used by untrained or lesser trained militia type troops because it took less training. It's a stabbing weapon, not a thrown weapon too. A lance was exclusively a mounted troopie weapon. Also primarily a stabbing weapon, but also used to knock an opponent off his horse.
And a handgun is a handgun. Regardless of its calibre it takes more training to be proficient than it does a rifle.

[pax]

Should have added: if you're deeply committed to trying a different gun for her, suggest she handle a Glock 43. It shoots like a larger gun, has the familiar Glock interface while being friendly for small hands, and has a surprisingly soft spring for the size.

pax

[hdwhit]

My suggestions would be:

• Get a dog.
• Install an alarm system.
• Get the finace a gun she is comfortable using; let her do the choosing, and consider revolvers and shotguns as viable choices.

My wife uses a shotgun since she's been around them since she was a child, isn't afraid of them and can hit what she points it at - particularly at distances that would be across the room.

[Nathan]

She's too small to safely handle the ....AR.

This is very hard to believe. A short 9" or 10" AR Pistol is a very compact weapon. That would be easily deployed and has many newb type features like a red dot and linear comp to redirect blast.

Also, this racking the slide thing on a Glock 17 or even the Shield is trainable. She needs practice.

[Kvon2]

If another gun is in the budget, I would take a look at the Walter pk380. Looks like someone above mentioned it as well.

I've been looking in to them myself and every review I have seen(quite a few) raves about how light the slide is to work.

[heyjoe]

i would recommend a Ruger .327 LCR loaded with 32 H&R Magnum. It is relatively light, easy to use, accurate and low recoil. It holds six rounds.

A Glock 42 .380 is also low recoil, accurate and the slide is easy to rack. It has a 6+1 capacity.