is it possible???

.50cal packer · December 1, 2014, 04:54 PM

I'm curious to know if the idea of free floating a break action rifle is possible or feasable? If so, how is it done? Thanks for all the help in advance.

Doyle · December 1, 2014, 05:33 PM

What kind of break action? For the Encore you can use something called a "hanger bar".

hoghunting · December 1, 2014, 06:13 PM

Quote:

For the Encore you can use something called a "hanger bar".

They're also made for the Contender and G2, and they work very well.

.50cal packer · December 1, 2014, 06:16 PM

As much as I didn't want to get any flack for the type of gun or the multiple calibers I want to be able to change between, I should have known that it was a criticle part of the question. I'm getting a H&R handi rifle in .444. I want to aquire the .35 Whelen barrel as well. However cheap, some people think these rifles are, it doesn't really matter. While barrel whip, isn't a huge concern for single shot rifles, I like things that some would call a little left of center. Any advice Doyle would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Doyle · December 1, 2014, 08:22 PM

The biggest (by far) contributor to inaccuracy in a break-open single shot is not the lack of a free-floating barrel. It is looseness in the hinge joint followed closely by headspace (too little or too much).

The hinge joint issue can be mitigated (at least with an Encore) by using either oversized or adjustable hingle pins. The headspace issue is solved by handloading your own ammo using fireformed brass.

I really don't know what, if anything, you can do other than handloading for a Handi rifle. I do know that there have been lots of reported problems of headspace issues with Handi rifles chambered in .35 Whelen. The shoulder on a Whelen is so narrow that there is very little room for error.

Clark · December 1, 2014, 09:04 PM

I have free floated single shots by getting ahold of the barrel back next to the chamber and then projecting with a separate structure supported by the bipod.

James K · December 1, 2014, 09:47 PM

Of course that falling block is quite a different colored horse from a Handi-Rifle. The H&R is basically a shotgun action, and the forearm is solely for something to hold onto; it does not support the barrel, the barrel supports it.

Maybe someone can come up with a way (like a foreend bar welded or screwed to the action) to get the barrel and foreend totally separated, but I have never heard of it being done. Further, those rifles are adequate for "minute of deer" at fairly close range, but I have not noted any claims of great accuracy and suspect that money spent in trying to make one shoot well would be essentially wasted.

Jim

Bill DeShivs · December 1, 2014, 10:00 PM

If the front and rear sights are mounted on the barrel, accuracy should be quite good.

Doyle · December 1, 2014, 10:04 PM

Quote:

If the front and rear sights are mounted on the barrel, accuracy should be quite good.

You would think that would be the case. Sadly, it isn't so. Many Encore owners have to spend time and money tweaking their barrel/receiver combinations to get them to shoot. Sometimes we get lucky and get a shooter right out of the box. I had that happen with a 30-06 bbl I had on one receiver. It was almost a one holer. I swapped it for a .35 Whelen barrel and I just started playing with it. That one is going to be a little more difficult.

.50cal packer · December 1, 2014, 10:53 PM

"minute of deer?"

lol
Anytime you work on a gun, is time well spent. I'm not looking for a thousand yard tack driver. just a fun reloading big bore gun that isn't a magnum. I have read about the 35 Whelen headspace problem on these. Based on reports all over the internet, there is nothing a .35 can do, that a 06, 30-30 and even a .308 cant. With that being said, should I drop the whelen all together and go with a common cartridge? the 35 is so inticing yet NEF has had problems in the past.

Doyle · December 1, 2014, 11:45 PM

Quote:

there is nothing a .35 can do, that a 06, 30-30 and even a .308 cant

Well, actually there is. It allows you to hunt during the MS "primitive weapon" season.

Strange as it seems, MS allows single-shot external-hammer rifles of .35 and larger to be used during primitive weapon season.

FrankenMauser · December 2, 2014, 01:48 AM

Current .444 Marlin Handi-Rifles have headspace, lockup, and firing pin issues, and are causing a lot of light strike and failure-to-fire problems for owners. I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot pole.
Unless you want to send the rifle off for repairs after the first trip to the range, I would look for a used one.

As for free-floating...
It can't be done with Handi-Rifles. The fore stock is attached to the barrel and is used to apply pressure to the hinge plate that rides on the action. Outside of a lot of metal work and redesigning the entire hinge, you won't get that barrel floating separate from the fore stock.

(Owner of a Remlin .444 Marlin Handi-Rifle.)

Dixie Gunsmithing · December 2, 2014, 06:13 AM

There's no way to separate the forearm on these, that I can think of, since the connection forms the hinge joint and applies a rearward pressure to it. To get any real accuracy, the only thing I could think of, would to be add some sort of dolls head onto the barrel, and a mating notch in the receiver, and that may not even do it. The breech would have to draw up tight every time it was closed, and settle into the same spot, to get any sort of repeatability on accuracy. Since the barrel catch is just a shoe that fits into the v-notch on the barrel lug, to keep it from tipping up, the locking system will not lock the breech, or draw the barrel back tight, and to the same spot each time.

The forearm on these screw onto the bottom of the barrel, and the wood or plastic forearms length determines any looseness to the hinge joint, plus there is no way to totally relieve the barrel channel in the forearm over it for non-contact, unless you leave just a spot of forearm around the screw hole, but that will most likely loosen the joint.

Goatwhiskers · December 2, 2014, 08:53 AM

Well, you're thinking of Handis in conventional terms, can't do that. Just to touch on a few things: tightness of lock-up is between the hinge and the face of the receiver combined with the action lock. I have one that I had to solder a .003" shim into the hinge hook to get a firm lock. Rearward pressure from the fore-end has no effect, an excess can actually cause problems. Floating the forend is easy, 1" of bedding at the rear combined with a o-ring on the barrel stud and maybe a little scraping takes care of that. Tightness of the forend screw "may" have an effect. Where you rest the rifle shooting from a bench is important, it should be rested no further forward than the hinge pin. I have .223HB, .22Hornet, 7MM Mauser, .444, and .44Mag/.445SM, all shoot well under 1". GW

FrankenMauser · December 3, 2014, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Well, you're thinking of Handis in conventional terms, can't do that. Just to touch on a few things: tightness of lock-up is between the hinge and the face of the receiver combined with the action lock. I have one that I had to solder a .003" shim into the hinge hook to get a firm lock. Rearward pressure from the fore-end has no effect, an excess can actually cause problems.

Rearward pressure on the hinge plate ("shoe"?) from the fore stock has a notable effect on performance. ...It holds the barrel on, when the action is open!

Snyper · December 6, 2014, 11:30 PM

Quote:

I'm getting a H&R handi rifle in .444. I want to aquire the .35 Whelen barrel as well.

I heard they have discontinued the barrel program, and will soon stop making the guns at all.

Unless you want used and NOT interchangable barrels, it may be too late

jj320 · December 8, 2014, 10:09 AM

Check out graybeards outdoors they have a whole section on h&r rifles. Very informative. there is a sticky section also for common issue's

December 1, 2014, 04:54 PM	#1
.50cal packer Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Posts: 154	is it possible??? I'm curious to know if the idea of free floating a break action rifle is possible or feasable? If so, how is it done? Thanks for all the help in advance. __________________ { Ceteris Paribus } You know that your ignorance is stupidity, when you're getting responses to your post starting with, *IT SEEMS TO ME, LIKE ALL THESE NEW GUYS THINK...*

December 1, 2014, 06:16 PM	#4
.50cal packer Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Posts: 154	As much as I didn't want to get any flack for the type of gun or the multiple calibers I want to be able to change between, I should have known that it was a criticle part of the question. I'm getting a H&R handi rifle in .444. I want to aquire the .35 Whelen barrel as well. However cheap, some people think these rifles are, it doesn't really matter. While barrel whip, isn't a huge concern for single shot rifles, I like things that some would call a little left of center. Any advice Doyle would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. __________________ { Ceteris Paribus } You know that your ignorance is stupidity, when you're getting responses to your post starting with, *IT SEEMS TO ME, LIKE ALL THESE NEW GUYS THINK...*

December 1, 2014, 10:00 PM	#8
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	If the front and rear sights are mounted on the barrel, accuracy should be quite good. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

December 1, 2014, 10:53 PM	#10
.50cal packer Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Posts: 154	"minute of deer?" lol Anytime you work on a gun, is time well spent. I'm not looking for a thousand yard tack driver. just a fun reloading big bore gun that isn't a magnum. I have read about the 35 Whelen headspace problem on these. Based on reports all over the internet, there is nothing a .35 can do, that a 06, 30-30 and even a .308 cant. With that being said, should I drop the whelen all together and go with a common cartridge? the 35 is so inticing yet NEF has had problems in the past. __________________ { Ceteris Paribus } You know that your ignorance is stupidity, when you're getting responses to your post starting with, *IT SEEMS TO ME, LIKE ALL THESE NEW GUYS THINK...*

December 2, 2014, 01:48 AM	#12
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Current .444 Marlin Handi-Rifles have headspace, lockup, and firing pin issues, and are causing a lot of light strike and failure-to-fire problems for owners. I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot pole. Unless you want to send the rifle off for repairs after the first trip to the range, I would look for a used one. As for free-floating... It can't be done with Handi-Rifles. The fore stock is attached to the barrel and is used to apply pressure to the hinge plate that rides on the action. Outside of a lot of metal work and redesigning the entire hinge, you won't get that barrel floating separate from the fore stock. (Owner of a Remlin .444 Marlin Handi-Rifle.) __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

December 1, 2014, 05:33 PM	#2
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	What kind of break action? For the Encore you can use something called a "hanger bar".

December 1, 2014, 08:22 PM	#5
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	The biggest (by far) contributor to inaccuracy in a break-open single shot is not the lack of a free-floating barrel. It is looseness in the hinge joint followed closely by headspace (too little or too much). The hinge joint issue can be mitigated (at least with an Encore) by using either oversized or adjustable hingle pins. The headspace issue is solved by handloading your own ammo using fireformed brass. I really don't know what, if anything, you can do other than handloading for a Handi rifle. I do know that there have been lots of reported problems of headspace issues with Handi rifles chambered in .35 Whelen. The shoulder on a Whelen is so narrow that there is very little room for error.

December 1, 2014, 09:47 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Of course that falling block is quite a different colored horse from a Handi-Rifle. The H&R is basically a shotgun action, and the forearm is solely for something to hold onto; it does not support the barrel, the barrel supports it. Maybe someone can come up with a way (like a foreend bar welded or screwed to the action) to get the barrel and foreend totally separated, but I have never heard of it being done. Further, those rifles are adequate for "minute of deer" at fairly close range, but I have not noted any claims of great accuracy and suspect that money spent in trying to make one shoot well would be essentially wasted. Jim

December 2, 2014, 06:13 AM	#13
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	There's no way to separate the forearm on these, that I can think of, since the connection forms the hinge joint and applies a rearward pressure to it. To get any real accuracy, the only thing I could think of, would to be add some sort of dolls head onto the barrel, and a mating notch in the receiver, and that may not even do it. The breech would have to draw up tight every time it was closed, and settle into the same spot, to get any sort of repeatability on accuracy. Since the barrel catch is just a shoe that fits into the v-notch on the barrel lug, to keep it from tipping up, the locking system will not lock the breech, or draw the barrel back tight, and to the same spot each time. The forearm on these screw onto the bottom of the barrel, and the wood or plastic forearms length determines any looseness to the hinge joint, plus there is no way to totally relieve the barrel channel in the forearm over it for non-contact, unless you leave just a spot of forearm around the screw hole, but that will most likely loosen the joint.

December 2, 2014, 08:53 AM	#14
Goatwhiskers Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Location: Batchelor, La. Posts: 579	Well, you're thinking of Handis in conventional terms, can't do that. Just to touch on a few things: tightness of lock-up is between the hinge and the face of the receiver combined with the action lock. I have one that I had to solder a .003" shim into the hinge hook to get a firm lock. Rearward pressure from the fore-end has no effect, an excess can actually cause problems. Floating the forend is easy, 1" of bedding at the rear combined with a o-ring on the barrel stud and maybe a little scraping takes care of that. Tightness of the forend screw "may" have an effect. Where you rest the rifle shooting from a bench is important, it should be rested no further forward than the hinge pin. I have .223HB, .22Hornet, 7MM Mauser, .444, and .44Mag/.445SM, all shoot well under 1". GW

December 8, 2014, 10:09 AM	#17
jj320 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2013 Location: hobart,in Posts: 119	re h&r Check out graybeards outdoors they have a whole section on h&r rifles. Very informative. there is a sticky section also for common issue's