big 3 magnum powders...... for lead

riverratt · September 18, 2014, 03:36 PM

I made it to the LGS today and they had a health supply of the big 3 powders for stout .44mag loads (2400, win 296, IMR 4227). Now i have loads for all 3 for jacketed bullets but nothing for lead. I know (at least my gun) that the 296 seems to only shoot well with a fyll load of 23gr and up ( with a 240gr bullet) and a mag primer. Both the 4227 and 2400 givs me a wider range to work with ( at least with jacketed bullets). So my question is what powder do y'all think will work best for lead? Keep in mind im looking for a full house mag load with a 240gr lead bullet but not a fire breathin heck raiser, something in the 1200-1300fps range.

Mike / Tx · September 18, 2014, 05:43 PM

Of what you listed I would go with the 2400. Only because I use it in several other loads though and as you mentioned you have a bit broader range of loads.

Also I don't know if you have seen any AA-9 around your area but it is a decent one to work with as well. It gives similar velocity as 296 but has a wider load range like 2400. It also meters like water though a measure.

Hope that helps.

zxcvbob · September 18, 2014, 05:54 PM

Herco will do it.

So will Blue Dot *if* you are lucky enough to find a good load. (I got lucky with a .45 Colt +P load, so you should be able to match it in .44 Mag)

Of the powders you listed, 2400 is the only one I would load down to that level, but 4227 might be okay

Gdawgs · September 18, 2014, 09:09 PM

I use all three of those powders with lead bullets on a regular basis. All three will do what you want.

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has loads for all three powders in 44 mag with a 240 gr cast bullet.

2400 - 18.5-20.6 grains. (1100-1258 fps)
H110 - 22.5 - 23.5 grains (1204-1266 fps)
4227 - 21.5 - 24.0 grains (1036-1263 fps)

H110 always calls out the use of a magnum primer.

skizzums · September 18, 2014, 11:50 PM

I have always like h110, but my new favorite is 4227. It's clean, seems to flash less and is more available. But h110 rules for velocity.

JT-AR-MG42 · September 19, 2014, 04:47 AM

I'm with skizzums.

24 grs. of 4227 with SLP primers and the 429421 solid or HP has always been an accurate and powerful load that I highly recommend you try.

The solid chronoed at 1290 fps through a 6 1/2" 29. Down from 2400 velocities - 1360 fps with my 2400 load (which is also an accurate load for me).

You'll find 4227 gives a LOT less muzzle and cylinder flash than 2400.
It is a pleasant magnum load.

I've never had the need to try the ball powders with lead. I use them in several DE calibers where there is no disconcerting cylinder gap.

I've found 4227 locally, but I now carry around a downloaded photo of a can of 2400 so that I remember what it looks like.

JT

ljnowell · September 19, 2014, 04:58 AM

OP you just described the perfect application for 2400. It plays very nice with lead and while it can be taken right to the edge it performs well when downloaded some too.

rclark · September 19, 2014, 09:05 AM

All I use is lead. No need for jacketed or gas capped. Talking .44Mag .... Anyway both 4227 and 2400 will work well. With a 240g SWC, I've tested 2400 from 16.0g (1116fps) to 20.0g (1333fps) . Like 19.0g (1273fps) best. Testing was all done with a Ruger 6 1/2" revolver and CCI-300 primer. 2400 doesn't need a magnum primer. Tested 4227 from 17.0g (1009fps) to 23.0g (1250fps) with CCI-350s. Did not mark any loads in that range as accurate in my load table, so YMMV. None was marked as bad, so should have 'decent' accuracy though. I have a favorite accurate load in .45 Colt though with 4227 which I like to load sometimes. As you can see both powders can be loaded up and down the scale unlike narrow ranged 296/H110 (I don't use). Anyway, hope that helps. My goto load though is 10g of Unique under 240g SWC (1100fps). I like to enjoy my shooting sessions

.

LOLBELL · September 19, 2014, 09:26 AM

Of the three mentioned in the OP I've had my best luck with IMR4227, with both leading and accuracy issues. I use a cast SWC of straight wheel weights. I use this same powder and bullet profile in 327, 357, 41, 44 and 45C with good results.

black mamba · September 20, 2014, 07:29 PM

I am constantly surprised that these threads seldom include Accurate 4100 or Ramshot Enforcer (same powder). It is slower than 2400 and faster than 296, does not need magnum primers, and can be loaded down to the levels you are talking about. It also meters more accurately than any powder I've ever used, and burns cleaner than any powder I've used. It may be hard to find, but if you see some . . . GRAB IT!!

dwhite · September 21, 2014, 11:12 AM

Be sure when checking published load data that you compare
velocities versus test barrel length. Some manufacturers will
use a standard length handgun barrel say, six inches, versus
a 10 to 12 inch test barrel which will show higher velocities
for charge weight.

Hodgdon uses a 10 inch test barrel with a 158 grain bullet in
.357 Mag to achieve 1591 fps with H110.

Alliant uses a 10 inch test barrel with a 158 grain bullet in
.357 Mag to achieve 1265 fps with 2400

Accurate Arms uses a 6 inch barrel with a 158 grain bullet in
.357 Mag to achieve 1367 fps with AA#9.

Vihtavuori uses a 7 inch barrel for velocity testing.

Fast isn't always what it appears.

All the Best,
D. White

**Unclenick** · September 21, 2014, 12:08 PM

SAAMI has three standard barrel lengths for .44 Magnum. The revolver barrel (2-piece, to include a 0.008" barrel/cylinder gap) is 4" measured beyond the gap, or 5.763" long measured from the breech face. There is a one-piece barrel that is 8.275" long, and the length is measure from the breechface, like a self-loader barrel or a rifle barrel. Then there is a rifle test barrel for .44 Mag that is 20" long measured from the breechface.

IIRC, 2400 is the powder Elmer Keith worked up to .44 Mag pressure with using 16:1 lead:tin cast bullets. Oldie but goodie in this chambering.

GeauxTide · September 23, 2014, 02:48 PM

I like H110/296 for jacketed and 2400 with lead. And, you don't have to use Mag primers with 2400.

rclark · September 23, 2014, 05:11 PM

Quote:

.... Ramshot Enforcer

Thanks for the memory 'toggle'. Will have to keep an eye out for it now for testing. I really like True Blue for the same reasons you mentioned.

TimSr · September 25, 2014, 12:29 PM

I use H110/W296, 24gr. with 240gr SWC from Missouri Bullet Co. No leading, very accurrate. I like my target practice loads to hit the target in the same place as my jacketed XTP hunting loads.

I've also had great results with Blue Dot, and it can be loaded down a little more.

If I'm doing light target loads for the wife, Unique can be loaded anywhere from light paper puncher loads to medium magnum loads.

September 18, 2014, 03:36 PM	#1
riverratt Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2014 Posts: 314	big 3 magnum powders...... for lead I made it to the LGS today and they had a health supply of the big 3 powders for stout .44mag loads (2400, win 296, IMR 4227). Now i have loads for all 3 for jacketed bullets but nothing for lead. I know (at least my gun) that the 296 seems to only shoot well with a fyll load of 23gr and up ( with a 240gr bullet) and a mag primer. Both the 4227 and 2400 givs me a wider range to work with ( at least with jacketed bullets). So my question is what powder do y'all think will work best for lead? Keep in mind im looking for a full house mag load with a 240gr lead bullet but not a fire breathin heck raiser, something in the 1200-1300fps range.

September 18, 2014, 05:43 PM	#2
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Of what you listed I would go with the 2400. Only because I use it in several other loads though and as you mentioned you have a bit broader range of loads. Also I don't know if you have seen any AA-9 around your area but it is a decent one to work with as well. It gives similar velocity as 296 but has a wider load range like 2400. It also meters like water though a measure. Hope that helps. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

September 18, 2014, 05:54 PM	#3
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Herco will do it. So will Blue Dot if you are lucky enough to find a good load. (I got lucky with a .45 Colt +P load, so you should be able to match it in .44 Mag) Of the powders you listed, 2400 is the only one I would load down to that level, but 4227 might be okay __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

September 18, 2014, 11:50 PM	#5
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	I have always like h110, but my new favorite is 4227. It's clean, seems to flash less and is more available. But h110 rules for velocity. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

September 19, 2014, 09:05 AM	#8
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,622	All I use is lead. No need for jacketed or gas capped. Talking .44Mag .... Anyway both 4227 and 2400 will work well. With a 240g SWC, I've tested 2400 from 16.0g (1116fps) to 20.0g (1333fps) . Like 19.0g (1273fps) best. Testing was all done with a Ruger 6 1/2" revolver and CCI-300 primer. 2400 doesn't need a magnum primer. Tested 4227 from 17.0g (1009fps) to 23.0g (1250fps) with CCI-350s. Did not mark any loads in that range as accurate in my load table, so YMMV. None was marked as bad, so should have 'decent' accuracy though. I have a favorite accurate load in .45 Colt though with 4227 which I like to load sometimes. As you can see both powders can be loaded up and down the scale unlike narrow ranged 296/H110 (I don't use). Anyway, hope that helps. My goto load though is 10g of Unique under 240g SWC (1100fps). I like to enjoy my shooting sessions . __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

September 18, 2014, 09:09 PM	#4
Gdawgs Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2009 Location: MN Posts: 656	I use all three of those powders with lead bullets on a regular basis. All three will do what you want. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has loads for all three powders in 44 mag with a 240 gr cast bullet. 2400 - 18.5-20.6 grains. (1100-1258 fps) H110 - 22.5 - 23.5 grains (1204-1266 fps) 4227 - 21.5 - 24.0 grains (1036-1263 fps) H110 always calls out the use of a magnum primer.

September 19, 2014, 04:47 AM	#6
JT-AR-MG42 Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 555	I'm with skizzums. 24 grs. of 4227 with SLP primers and the 429421 solid or HP has always been an accurate and powerful load that I highly recommend you try. The solid chronoed at 1290 fps through a 6 1/2" 29. Down from 2400 velocities - 1360 fps with my 2400 load (which is also an accurate load for me). You'll find 4227 gives a LOT less muzzle and cylinder flash than 2400. It is a pleasant magnum load. I've never had the need to try the ball powders with lead. I use them in several DE calibers where there is no disconcerting cylinder gap. I've found 4227 locally, but I now carry around a downloaded photo of a can of 2400 so that I remember what it looks like. JT

September 19, 2014, 04:58 AM	#7
ljnowell Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Posts: 274	OP you just described the perfect application for 2400. It plays very nice with lead and while it can be taken right to the edge it performs well when downloaded some too.

September 19, 2014, 09:26 AM	#9
LOLBELL Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2010 Location: Fayette AL Posts: 226	Of the three mentioned in the OP I've had my best luck with IMR4227, with both leading and accuracy issues. I use a cast SWC of straight wheel weights. I use this same powder and bullet profile in 327, 357, 41, 44 and 45C with good results. __________________ Don't squat with your spurs on!!

September 20, 2014, 07:29 PM	#10
black mamba Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2011 Location: SW Florida Posts: 890	I am constantly surprised that these threads seldom include Accurate 4100 or Ramshot Enforcer (same powder). It is slower than 2400 and faster than 296, does not need magnum primers, and can be loaded down to the levels you are talking about. It also meters more accurately than any powder I've ever used, and burns cleaner than any powder I've used. It may be hard to find, but if you see some . . . GRAB IT!!

September 21, 2014, 11:12 AM	#11
dwhite Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2007 Location: Wake County, N. Carolina Posts: 379	Be sure when checking published load data that you compare velocities versus test barrel length. Some manufacturers will use a standard length handgun barrel say, six inches, versus a 10 to 12 inch test barrel which will show higher velocities for charge weight. Hodgdon uses a 10 inch test barrel with a 158 grain bullet in .357 Mag to achieve 1591 fps with H110. Alliant uses a 10 inch test barrel with a 158 grain bullet in .357 Mag to achieve 1265 fps with 2400 Accurate Arms uses a 6 inch barrel with a 158 grain bullet in .357 Mag to achieve 1367 fps with AA#9. Vihtavuori uses a 7 inch barrel for velocity testing. Fast isn't always what it appears. All the Best, D. White __________________ 10th Amendment - The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

September 21, 2014, 12:08 PM	#12
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	SAAMI has three standard barrel lengths for .44 Magnum. The revolver barrel (2-piece, to include a 0.008" barrel/cylinder gap) is 4" measured beyond the gap, or 5.763" long measured from the breech face. There is a one-piece barrel that is 8.275" long, and the length is measure from the breechface, like a self-loader barrel or a rifle barrel. Then there is a rifle test barrel for .44 Mag that is 20" long measured from the breechface. IIRC, 2400 is the powder Elmer Keith worked up to .44 Mag pressure with using 16:1 lead:tin cast bullets. Oldie but goodie in this chambering. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

September 23, 2014, 02:48 PM	#13
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	I like H110/296 for jacketed and 2400 with lead. And, you don't have to use Mag primers with 2400.

September 25, 2014, 12:29 PM	#15
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	I use H110/W296, 24gr. with 240gr SWC from Missouri Bullet Co. No leading, very accurrate. I like my target practice loads to hit the target in the same place as my jacketed XTP hunting loads. I've also had great results with Blue Dot, and it can be loaded down a little more. If I'm doing light target loads for the wife, Unique can be loaded anywhere from light paper puncher loads to medium magnum loads.