.30 cal, 147 gr Winchester FMJBT in 308 AR

velocette · February 3, 2008, 03:27 PM

These bullets are frequently available from various suppliers, they are nice looking and relatively inexpensive. Their BC should be pretty good too. However, no matter what I do, I have not gotten them to group well. I've worked up in 1/4 grain increments (IMR 4895) and none of the groups are very good. Best is around 1 1/2". (This from a rifle that shoots Sierra 168matchkings into 5/8" and 155 Palma matchkings into less than that.)
Is the bullet just not that accurate of have some of you wizards of reload out there found a better powder combination that works with these bullets?

Roger

**Unclenick** · February 3, 2008, 07:08 PM

My dad bought a bunch of those about 15 years ago. We had the same result you've experienced. Nothing we tried then could make them shoot. He eventually gave them away to someone who could not hit the broad side of a barn from the inside, who happily shot up dirt and weeds and about anything else other than his targets with them.

I recommend bulk purchasing the 150 grain Hornady BT FMJ's. I bought a bulk box of 2100 of them from Midsouth. They shoot fine. I was fortunate to do this just before the most recent price hike, and got mine for 10.5 cents each. They are nearer to 13.5 cents now, and that's before shipping.

If you're determined to try to make the 147's shoot, knowing more today than I did back then, and knowing specifically that Winchester mixes brass off different tooling into one lot number, I would first sort these bullets by weight to the nearest tenth of a grain. You will likely find groups of bullets that cluster around different weights. These clusters will have come off different tools. This weighing step is not a useful thing to do with bullets whose lots come off just one set of forming dies, like Sierra's. But with multiple tooling mixed lots, grouping bullets by weight within a span of three tenths of a grain or so is one way to make it more probable they came off one set of tooling.

Additional sorting can be done with an O.D. thimble micrometer that resolves ten thousandths of an inch. Measure each bullet at three diameters 120 degrees apart. This will let you sort out oval cross-section bullets and round bullets that are different from the others in the weight cluster.

Finally, if you have the equipment, you can spin the bullets pneumatically or examine their density by sonics for uniformity about the center axis. Bullets passing this and the other criteria can't likely help shooting well if they are loaded well.

Or you could just buy better bullets and give these way, like my dad did.

Nick

30Cal · February 3, 2008, 08:15 PM

It's just a cheap fodder bullet. I've never gotten them to shoot inside 2.5" out of my supermatch. You'll notice most bullets that shoot accurately on not FMJ, which are easy to make, yet hard to make consistantly.

Some guys have had luck with 173gr FMJ's by sorting them by how the base looks. I just buy Sierra's or Noslers.

Shooter 973 · February 4, 2008, 06:52 PM

Actually these bullets fall inside the requirements for Govt. acceptance for GI ammo. This is about the best they will shoot even out of an accurate rifle.
In this case your get about minute of pop can for the cheaper price you pay.

velocette · February 5, 2008, 06:49 AM

Thanks folks, I think that I'll save the ammo loaded with the Win bullets for when my son visits. He can go through ammo faster than anyone else I know, especially if Dad is payin for it.
At least the poor accuracy is not my reloads but just cheap bullets.

Roger

30Cal · February 5, 2008, 02:39 PM

The 125gr Speer TNT is a cheap and extremely accurate bullet. You can also find Nosler factory 2nd match bullets on sale from time to time at www.shootersproshop.com. I shot them all last year Highpower and I can't tell the diff between the Nosler 2nds and the Sierra Matchking versions.

February 3, 2008, 03:27 PM	#1
velocette Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 924	.30 cal, 147 gr Winchester FMJBT in 308 AR These bullets are frequently available from various suppliers, they are nice looking and relatively inexpensive. Their BC should be pretty good too. However, no matter what I do, I have not gotten them to group well. I've worked up in 1/4 grain increments (IMR 4895) and none of the groups are very good. Best is around 1 1/2". (This from a rifle that shoots Sierra 168matchkings into 5/8" and 155 Palma matchkings into less than that.) Is the bullet just not that accurate of have some of you wizards of reload out there found a better powder combination that works with these bullets? Roger __________________ Trigger control + Breath control + Sight alignment = Gun Control. http://www.hrpclub.info/ NRA Smallbore Prone Master, High Power Master

February 3, 2008, 07:08 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	My dad bought a bunch of those about 15 years ago. We had the same result you've experienced. Nothing we tried then could make them shoot. He eventually gave them away to someone who could not hit the broad side of a barn from the inside, who happily shot up dirt and weeds and about anything else other than his targets with them. I recommend bulk purchasing the 150 grain Hornady BT FMJ's. I bought a bulk box of 2100 of them from Midsouth. They shoot fine. I was fortunate to do this just before the most recent price hike, and got mine for 10.5 cents each. They are nearer to 13.5 cents now, and that's before shipping. If you're determined to try to make the 147's shoot, knowing more today than I did back then, and knowing specifically that Winchester mixes brass off different tooling into one lot number, I would first sort these bullets by weight to the nearest tenth of a grain. You will likely find groups of bullets that cluster around different weights. These clusters will have come off different tools. This weighing step is not a useful thing to do with bullets whose lots come off just one set of forming dies, like Sierra's. But with multiple tooling mixed lots, grouping bullets by weight within a span of three tenths of a grain or so is one way to make it more probable they came off one set of tooling. Additional sorting can be done with an O.D. thimble micrometer that resolves ten thousandths of an inch. Measure each bullet at three diameters 120 degrees apart. This will let you sort out oval cross-section bullets and round bullets that are different from the others in the weight cluster. Finally, if you have the equipment, you can spin the bullets pneumatically or examine their density by sonics for uniformity about the center axis. Bullets passing this and the other criteria can't likely help shooting well if they are loaded well. Or you could just buy better bullets and give these way, like my dad did. Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; February 3, 2008 at 07:46 PM. Reason: Added link

February 4, 2008, 06:52 PM	#4
Shooter 973 Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2001 Location: Home town of John M. Browning, Utah Posts: 499	147 FMJBT's Actually these bullets fall inside the requirements for Govt. acceptance for GI ammo. This is about the best they will shoot even out of an accurate rifle. In this case your get about minute of pop can for the cheaper price you pay. __________________ The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

February 5, 2008, 06:49 AM	#5
velocette Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 924	Thanks folks, I think that I'll save the ammo loaded with the Win bullets for when my son visits. He can go through ammo faster than anyone else I know, especially if Dad is payin for it. At least the poor accuracy is not my reloads but just cheap bullets. Roger __________________ Trigger control + Breath control + Sight alignment = Gun Control. http://www.hrpclub.info/ NRA Smallbore Prone Master, High Power Master

February 3, 2008, 08:15 PM	#3
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	It's just a cheap fodder bullet. I've never gotten them to shoot inside 2.5" out of my supermatch. You'll notice most bullets that shoot accurately on not FMJ, which are easy to make, yet hard to make consistantly. Some guys have had luck with 173gr FMJ's by sorting them by how the base looks. I just buy Sierra's or Noslers.

February 5, 2008, 02:39 PM	#6
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	The 125gr Speer TNT is a cheap and extremely accurate bullet. You can also find Nosler factory 2nd match bullets on sale from time to time at www.shootersproshop.com. I shot them all last year Highpower and I can't tell the diff between the Nosler 2nds and the Sierra Matchking versions.