M1 Carbine stopped firing - Page 2

amd6547 · January 10, 2010, 10:54 AM

Military 30 carbine ammo is great...I just wish some importer would discover a warehouse full of spam cans in Korea and bring it in cheap. As it stands, the best choices in 30 carbine ammo right now are S&B, PRVI, and Remington. Aguila is available, but a bit underpowered. Wolf makes steel case carbine ammo, but I have never tried it.
I mainly shoot PRVI and S&B, and keep Remington soft points for home defense use. Remington is too expensive for range blasting.

motofabio · January 10, 2010, 12:24 PM

I did a little more research and it seems that the LC 54 means that the ammo was indeed Military grade, manufactured in the Lake City Ordinance Plant, 1954.

Quote:

Despoiler, gunandgame.com Senior Member
FC = Federal Cartridge Co
LC = Lake City Ordnance Plant + year
SL = St Louis Ordnance Plant + year

And... WCC = Western Cartridge Company

There seems to be some inconsistency on the corrosive aspect. However, it makes sense to me that the Military would not have ever made corrosive .30 ammo for any gas operated firearm.

Mike40-11 · January 10, 2010, 05:39 PM

You got it right on the headstamps. WCC is also military ammo, 1953 by the stamp. Also non-corrosive. Since it's FMJ and has been with the rifle for years, it's probably actual milsurp. But better than 50 years old, not 40! Not a problem though, it will shoot fine. I'd use it it mine.

**Unclenick** · January 10, 2010, 05:49 PM

The military made plenty of corrosive ammo for the Garand. Didn't stop until about the time your ammo was made. For some reason they never found the non-corrosive primers reliable enough for the .30-06 ammo? Probably because it was also used in machineguns. Carbine ammo, however, started out non-corrosive and stayed that way. The old brown military bore cleaner removes or neutralizes corrosion.

The only thing you have to worry about is that old non-corrosive ammo was mercuric. That makes the cases unreliable to load, as mercury residue weakens brass. I don't know if yours have mercuric primers? I'm thinking non-mercuric non-corrosive primers started trials between WWII and Korea, like around 1947, but I'm not sure on that score? Perhaps someone who knows will chime in?

Somewhere around 1953 all U.S. military primers went non-corrosive with the exception of one run of early .308 match ammo from Frankford Arsenal in the late 50's, which were corrosive. But that's all that I am aware of? I don't know what carbine primer formulations were in effect when?

amd6547 · January 10, 2010, 06:07 PM

The military went with non corrosive for the carbine because the gas piston is not meant to be cleaned routinely.
Some LC marked brass is chinese and is corrosive, berdan primed. I have never seen any, but I have read about it.

**Unclenick** · January 10, 2010, 06:16 PM

Do you know about the mercuric / non-mercuric switchover? I wish I had dates for that. I heard the mercuric primers didn't store well, but that's all. It'd only be an issue for reloading the cases and for not exposing youngsters to the smoke or the cases, I suppose?

It makes sense about the gas system. The Garand was designed to handle M1 ball from reserves accumulated between the wars, so that was corrosive, of course.

impalacustom · January 11, 2010, 05:46 AM

All US made M1 Carbine ammunition is non-mercuric and non-corrosive. It was that way when they used the small rifle primers from a private company, the larger primers were still mercuric at the time, as up to the development of the M1 Carbine all military rifle primers were large. As AMD said be careful though because some LC52 and LC53 can be Chinese crap, and it is corrosive. The Chinese junk never came on stripper clips and was in cardboard boxes, who knows if it is loose though.

motofabio · January 13, 2010, 02:41 AM

Found an excellent little piece of history to go along with my Carbine...

Quote:

Elmer Bjerke was promoted on January 6th, 1947 to Forman of small arms inspection at Rock Island Arsenal. He was responsible for the final inspection of new and overhauled small arms. He served in that capacity until 1958. All small arms inspected under his supervision bear the markings "RIA" for Rock Island Arsenal and "EB" for Elmer Bjerke.

And if you happen to have FK on yours...

Quote:

Frank Krack was Assistant Foreman of the Inspection Division at Rock Island Arsenal from September 17, 1941 until he retired on July 19th, 1946. During that period all small arms inspected under his supervision would be stamped with his initials "FK" as well as those of the Rock Island Arsenal "RIA".

January 10, 2010, 10:54 AM	#26
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	Military 30 carbine ammo is great...I just wish some importer would discover a warehouse full of spam cans in Korea and bring it in cheap. As it stands, the best choices in 30 carbine ammo right now are S&B, PRVI, and Remington. Aguila is available, but a bit underpowered. Wolf makes steel case carbine ammo, but I have never tried it. I mainly shoot PRVI and S&B, and keep Remington soft points for home defense use. Remington is too expensive for range blasting. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

January 10, 2010, 05:49 PM	#29
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	The military made plenty of corrosive ammo for the Garand. Didn't stop until about the time your ammo was made. For some reason they never found the non-corrosive primers reliable enough for the .30-06 ammo? Probably because it was also used in machineguns. Carbine ammo, however, started out non-corrosive and stayed that way. The old brown military bore cleaner removes or neutralizes corrosion. The only thing you have to worry about is that old non-corrosive ammo was mercuric. That makes the cases unreliable to load, as mercury residue weakens brass. I don't know if yours have mercuric primers? I'm thinking non-mercuric non-corrosive primers started trials between WWII and Korea, like around 1947, but I'm not sure on that score? Perhaps someone who knows will chime in? Somewhere around 1953 all U.S. military primers went non-corrosive with the exception of one run of early .308 match ammo from Frankford Arsenal in the late 50's, which were corrosive. But that's all that I am aware of? I don't know what carbine primer formulations were in effect when? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 10, 2010, 06:07 PM	#30
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	The military went with non corrosive for the carbine because the gas piston is not meant to be cleaned routinely. Some LC marked brass is chinese and is corrosive, berdan primed. I have never seen any, but I have read about it. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

January 10, 2010, 06:16 PM	#31
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Do you know about the mercuric / non-mercuric switchover? I wish I had dates for that. I heard the mercuric primers didn't store well, but that's all. It'd only be an issue for reloading the cases and for not exposing youngsters to the smoke or the cases, I suppose? It makes sense about the gas system. The Garand was designed to handle M1 ball from reserves accumulated between the wars, so that was corrosive, of course. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 10, 2010, 05:39 PM	#28
Mike40-11 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 842	You got it right on the headstamps. WCC is also military ammo, 1953 by the stamp. Also non-corrosive. Since it's FMJ and has been with the rifle for years, it's probably actual milsurp. But better than 50 years old, not 40! Not a problem though, it will shoot fine. I'd use it it mine.

January 11, 2010, 05:46 AM	#32
impalacustom Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 492	All US made M1 Carbine ammunition is non-mercuric and non-corrosive. It was that way when they used the small rifle primers from a private company, the larger primers were still mercuric at the time, as up to the development of the M1 Carbine all military rifle primers were large. As AMD said be careful though because some LC52 and LC53 can be Chinese crap, and it is corrosive. The Chinese junk never came on stripper clips and was in cardboard boxes, who knows if it is loose though.