De-capping Live Primers

cali92rs · August 21, 2009, 10:34 PM

As part of my 454 SRH purchase at Gunbroker, I acquired some used brass.
I am not sure if the original owner was in the middle of reloading or what, but half of the brass has live, unfired primers in them. I am pretty leary of using unknown primers, so I was wondering if its ok to decap live primers, or if I should fire them without powder/bullets? If I fire them without powder/bullets, what would happen?

Thanks

LHB1 · August 21, 2009, 10:37 PM

Simplest way to get rid of the primers is to put the primed brass in your gun and fire them. They will make a loud noise like a firecracker. It will not harm the gun. Don't point the gun at anyone or anything flammable. The brass can then be reloaded as normally done. This method also serves to destroy the unknown primers if that is your desire.

kraigwy · August 21, 2009, 10:37 PM

I'm decapped lots of live primers using the normal decaping proceedure, I'm never had one go off.

If it does, you're only possable problem is your eyes, but you should be wearing safty glassed for reloading anyway while relaoding.

Sport45 · August 21, 2009, 10:42 PM

Be warned that if you pop them off in your revolver they are likely to back out and tie up the cylinder. Do it one at a time and be prepared to whack the cylinder a bit to open the revolver.

I'd run them through my universal decapping die while wearing eye and ear protection. (Actually I'd pop one off in the revolver and if it worked would load and shoot the rest with a powder that doesn't require a mag primer.)

csmsss · August 21, 2009, 10:53 PM

Well, you could have a little fun - you could make wax bullets with them. Melt some paraffin in a pan in your oven such that you have about 1/2" of liquid paraffin in the bottom of the pan. Invert the primed brass and stand in the melted paraffin. When it cools, it will harden and you can then use a knife to cut the rest of the paraffin away from the cases. You now have some fairly safe practice loads you can play with.

Farmland · August 21, 2009, 11:16 PM

I have to take a stand for safety on this issue since it has hit the forums a few times this week. As stated by more than one manufacture of reloading presses.
Never attempt to deprime live primers, eventually one will go off, when it does it will detonate the others in the spent primer cup. Decapping live primers is the single most dangerous thing you can do while reloading.

Just because a person has done this practice for 50 years or thousands of times it is not safe. It only take one accident to create a a possible injury or worse.

CCI states that common sense is the most important part of reloading so since when does putting force on an explosive device sound like common sense.

New reloaders are looking to us to provide them correct and safe information. They may not understand just how sensitive and dangerous a primer can be.

That is my take on this and personally I can not recommend this as a safe solution.

snuffy · August 21, 2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Never attempt to deprime live primers, eventually one will go off, when it does it will detonate the others in the spent primer cup. Decapping live primers is the single most dangerous thing you can do while reloading.

Just because a person has done this practice for 50 years or thousands of times it is not safe. It only takeS one accident to create a a possible injury or worse.

Whoever wrote that did so with an ambulance chaser,(lawyer), right at his side.

Take a good long look at a cartridge loaded in any gun. What is present? A chamber, a bolt or a receiver, or a recoil shield, and a firing pin poised above a primer held in a brass case. The firing pin is either spring loaded or has a hammer hit it,,,,HARD! The brass can't move it's being held by the chamber. The primer can't move, it's being held by the brass. Now it gets hit by a firing pin that has a 60# spring behind it. It detonates like it is supposed to.

Now how does a brass case with a primer SITTING in it relate to the above description? Nothing is holding that primer from being PUSHED out of that pocket. The decapping pin may look like a firing pin, but none of the conditions are present to detonate the primer. Now I suppose if some ham handed gorilla was to slam the press lever into enough primers, one could go off.

Primers have been crushed, pushed in sideways and smashed without going off. Whats missing? The quick slap of the firing pin as apposed to the slow force of an errant priming device. In other words, done slowly in a normal FL die or universal decapping die, nothing will happen,,,,other than the primer being pushed out of the brass case. And YES you can re-use them!

hornady · August 22, 2009, 07:00 AM

Many years ago the Army had a saying about opinions, It alludes me now. oh yes now I remember. But then that was the days when profanity was A teaching tool used by Drill Sargents

billcarey · August 22, 2009, 07:56 AM

I've pushed a few live primers out and never had a problem eithier...but I do it slowly and they slide out just like spent primers. When I think about them going off from a heavy hand it reminds me of the Utube demo of the guy with a Lee turret press. If anyone whacks a press as fast as he does I can see a problem doing live primers. I suppose the live brass could be soaked in water over a night or two to get the powder wet before depriming though. Has anyone soaked a live one to see if this works?

hornady · August 22, 2009, 08:06 AM

This is another one of the topics that no one is going to change any ones minds on. I don’t do it. The reloading books all advise against it. But then . All the firearms manufacturer advise against shooting reloads

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · August 22, 2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Never attempt to deprime live primers, eventually one will go off, when it does it will detonate the others in the spent primer cup. Decapping live primers is the single most dangerous thing you can do while reloading.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!! Nonsense! I have deprimed TONS of live primers, without a single one going off. I would think not having a manual, talking on the phone, or SMOKING would be the most dangerous things you can do while reloading.

lonewolf2810 · August 22, 2009, 08:12 AM

I have deprimed live primers before without issue. I just take my time and do it slowly and don't slam the handle down just do it nice and easy. Just wear your eye protection and hearing protection just in case one does pop.

flyguy958 · August 22, 2009, 08:37 AM

"Be warned that if you pop them off in your revolver they are likely to back out and tie up the cylinder. Do it one at a time and be prepared to whack the cylinder a bit to open the revolver."

Sport, or anyone else can you explain this. I don't see the reason a primer would back out.

To the original question, I'd advise against removing them live.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · August 22, 2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

To the original question, I'd advise against removing them live.

Have you ever done it?

SL1 · August 22, 2009, 09:33 AM

1. If you fire an empty case with a primer in it in your revolver, the firing pin will push the case forward as far as it can go and then the primer will build-up enough pressure inside the primer pocket to push the primer back as far as it can go, completely bridging the space between the cylinder and the recoil shield. This is normal whenever you fire a cartridge. What is not normal is that there is no powder in the case to burn and build-up pressure there to force the case back and reseat the primer flush with the case head. SO, the protruding primer will make it hard to turn or open the cylinder. If you do decide to fire a few empty cases in your gun to check the primers, do them one at a time so that the case can be removed most easily; don't keep firing with a cylinder full until everything is jammed tight.

2. If you do fire a few and they work, then why not just load then with mild (for a .454) charges of an easily ignited powder and use them for plinking?

3. Using wax bullets will make a mess that you would need to clean out of your gun before going to regular ammo. AND, wax bullets are typically loaded in cases that have had the flash holes drilled-out to keep the primers from backing out and tying-up the gun. You can't drill-out the flash holes with the primers already seated, so this does not sound like a useful suggestion for your present situation.

4. You can USUALLY decap live primers without setting them off. But, Farmland makes an excellent point about other live primers that have already been removed. You DO NOT want those anywhere near the one that is being decapped at the moment. A cup from an exploding primer blowing into a bunch of live primers in a spent-primer catcher could definitely set off the whole catcher-full. So, if you are going to decap them, make sure you catch each one and put it somewhere else before doing the next one. Explosions of tubes full of live primers on progressive loading machines are notorious for SERIOUSLY injuring relaoders. And, those typically happen because of a jam somewhere in the apparatus CRUSHING a primer, not necessarily WHACKING IT hard.

SL1

Big G · August 22, 2009, 09:53 AM

I agree about the primers backing out, if you will read about speers rubber bullets that are powered by nothing but the primer, they tell you to drill the flash hole out to a bigger size.If you do this be sure to mark the cases, file a notch in the rim or buy some brass black and keep them away from your other brass.

wncchester · August 22, 2009, 10:10 AM

" I was wondering if its ok to decap live primers"

Ahhh, Snuffy! You just had to inject some common sense into an opinion topic didn't you!

In this "Protect the Stupid" law-suit happy society, would any of us think a loading manual WOULD say it's fine to push out live primers? But, "the most dangerous thing we can do?" Hardly. After doing several hundred over the last 47 years of loading, I may have blown my hands off a few times but I haven't noticed it.

If/when one pops, the upper part of any such tiny explosion is contained in a steel sizing die. There really isn't any great hazard of blowing that out of the press, right? At the bottom end, the hypothetical "risk" of setting off a pile of ejected live primers is perhaps easily reduced to tolerable levels by removing them from time to time. ??

Impact is what sets off primers so decap live primers just as you decap spent ones. Surely, even the most dense of us wouldn't slap the handle down on ANY primer.

Or not? Some folks say if they make anything more fool proof the gene pool will provide a more capable fool!

Gbro · August 22, 2009, 12:43 PM

For anyone squeemish about decapping a live primer, I wonder what they would do when a primer gets stuck sideways in the lee hand prime tool??
I do take precations as to where things are pointed, and powder containers properly covered, then crush the offending primer into the pocket. Then it still has to be pressed out. Not something to take without some precautions but it has to be done from time to time. The most common live one I have to decap is the one in up-side-down. I do not reuse them, as its just not worth picking through the hopper. and I always have my safety glasses on, I only buy safety glasses.

As for poping them off in a firearm, I wouldn't bother. They are very dirty, every one of them, I would say 10 times dirty'er than shooting a load, as long as its not B/P

.
And yes they do back out and make it hard to rotate the clyinder. I have one time had to reseat the spent primer with a dowel to rotate the cylinder becase I just didn't want to force it to hard.

bobotech · August 22, 2009, 01:00 PM

I decap live primers all the time, never had an issue with them ever.

Now to the OP, why don't you load up the rounds? The brass is primed and ready to go, why not make use of it? The 454 calls for small rifle primer if I remember correctly so they should be loaded up with small rifle primers. Now even if they are small pistol primers in there, they still should go off with no problem. I have heard of guys using small pistol in 454 with no ill effects.

I just think that worrying about unknown live primers in empty brass is a non-issue unless you are a bench rest shooter where every variable counts. Just load them up and have fun and look at the free primers as a freebie.

BigJimP · August 22, 2009, 05:15 PM

I wouldn't decap the live primers - and I wouldn't load the primed brass with powder and bullets because you have no idea what they are.

Shoot the primed cases in your gun.

freonr22 · August 22, 2009, 08:42 PM

I have done 20 on my progressive, no issues, but did it slow... ymmv

Sport45 · August 22, 2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billcarey

I suppose the live brass could be soaked in water over a night or two to get the powder wet before depriming though. Has anyone soaked a live one to see if this works?

I wouldn't count on it. Here's an experiment I tried a few weeks ago. On a range trip I found this .45acp round that someone had apparently found in the grass and left on the bench. There's no telling how long this cartridge had been exposed to the elements of the Texas Gulf Coast.

For hopefully obvious reasons I wasn't about to put that thing in one of my guns. It was loaded (or bought, I suppose) by someone else and was a bit "tarnished". I took it home and pulled the bullet with my RCBS hammer type puller. The case contained 5gr of what looked to be pristine condition powder. I touched a match to the powder on my driveway and it lit off nicely.

I pushed the primer out in a Lee universal decapping die and then installed the primer in one of my range .45acp loads using Unique and a fresh 230gr LRN bullet. On my next range trip I fired the round with the recycled primer and it went off and the bullet hit the target in the same group with the rest of the rounds that had new primers. I tossed the corroded bullet out onto the berm so that it could be recycled the next time the backstop was mined.

Primers and cartridges are more robust that a lot of people think.

cali92rs · August 22, 2009, 11:11 PM

To Bobotech...
I am kinda new to reloading (well, Ive been doing it for about a year now with 45ACP and 10mm), but i guess I am just a bit more cautious because I have never reloaded for 454.

I may just do that though, take advantage of the free primers.

Kyo · August 22, 2009, 11:45 PM

i have accidentally seated primers into my 45's before. I would de prime the normal way, except go slow on the live ones, and then re-seat them normally. I used a Lee die on a lee turret. After I de-prime the live primer, it has a small dent in it, like its been fired, but much less indentation. I re-install them. This was my first reloads. I had 4 of them I screwed up on. I took them to the range, and all the loads went off just fine. Even the indented primer ones.
Hey I am not saying its safe, but I am saying I didn't know about this and I did it and it was fine.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · August 23, 2009, 07:00 AM

Quote:

I pushed the primer out in a Lee universal decapping die

YOU DID WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That, my friend, is the single most dangerous thing you can do when relaoding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

August 21, 2009, 10:34 PM	#1
cali92rs Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Posts: 38	De-capping Live Primers As part of my 454 SRH purchase at Gunbroker, I acquired some used brass. I am not sure if the original owner was in the middle of reloading or what, but half of the brass has live, unfired primers in them. I am pretty leary of using unknown primers, so I was wondering if its ok to decap live primers, or if I should fire them without powder/bullets? If I fire them without powder/bullets, what would happen? Thanks

August 21, 2009, 10:37 PM	#2
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	Simplest way to get rid of the primers is to put the primed brass in your gun and fire them. They will make a loud noise like a firecracker. It will not harm the gun. Don't point the gun at anyone or anything flammable. The brass can then be reloaded as normally done. This method also serves to destroy the unknown primers if that is your desire. __________________ Good shooting and be safe. LB

August 21, 2009, 10:37 PM	#3
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I'm decapped lots of live primers using the normal decaping proceedure, I'm never had one go off. If it does, you're only possable problem is your eyes, but you should be wearing safty glassed for reloading anyway while relaoding. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

August 21, 2009, 10:42 PM	#4
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Be warned that if you pop them off in your revolver they are likely to back out and tie up the cylinder. Do it one at a time and be prepared to whack the cylinder a bit to open the revolver. I'd run them through my universal decapping die while wearing eye and ear protection. (Actually I'd pop one off in the revolver and if it worked would load and shoot the rest with a powder that doesn't require a mag primer.) __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

August 22, 2009, 08:12 AM	#12
lonewolf2810 Junior Member Join Date: April 30, 2009 Posts: 10	I have deprimed live primers before without issue. I just take my time and do it slowly and don't slam the handle down just do it nice and easy. Just wear your eye protection and hearing protection just in case one does pop. __________________ Police are NOT protectors, they are investigators of crime after the fact.

August 21, 2009, 10:53 PM	#5
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	Well, you could have a little fun - you could make wax bullets with them. Melt some paraffin in a pan in your oven such that you have about 1/2" of liquid paraffin in the bottom of the pan. Invert the primed brass and stand in the melted paraffin. When it cools, it will harden and you can then use a knife to cut the rest of the paraffin away from the cases. You now have some fairly safe practice loads you can play with.

August 21, 2009, 11:16 PM	#6
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	I have to take a stand for safety on this issue since it has hit the forums a few times this week. As stated by more than one manufacture of reloading presses. Never attempt to deprime live primers, eventually one will go off, when it does it will detonate the others in the spent primer cup. Decapping live primers is the single most dangerous thing you can do while reloading. Just because a person has done this practice for 50 years or thousands of times it is not safe. It only take one accident to create a a possible injury or worse. CCI states that common sense is the most important part of reloading so since when does putting force on an explosive device sound like common sense. New reloaders are looking to us to provide them correct and safe information. They may not understand just how sensitive and dangerous a primer can be. That is my take on this and personally I can not recommend this as a safe solution.

August 22, 2009, 07:00 AM	#8
hornady Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2009 Location: SWPA Posts: 428	Many years ago the Army had a saying about opinions, It alludes me now. oh yes now I remember. But then that was the days when profanity was A teaching tool used by Drill Sargents

August 22, 2009, 07:56 AM	#9
billcarey Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 273	I've pushed a few live primers out and never had a problem eithier...but I do it slowly and they slide out just like spent primers. When I think about them going off from a heavy hand it reminds me of the Utube demo of the guy with a Lee turret press. If anyone whacks a press as fast as he does I can see a problem doing live primers. I suppose the live brass could be soaked in water over a night or two to get the powder wet before depriming though. Has anyone soaked a live one to see if this works?

August 22, 2009, 08:06 AM	#10
hornady Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2009 Location: SWPA Posts: 428	This is another one of the topics that no one is going to change any ones minds on. I don’t do it. The reloading books all advise against it. But then . All the firearms manufacturer advise against shooting reloads

August 22, 2009, 08:37 AM	#13
flyguy958 Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 200	"Be warned that if you pop them off in your revolver they are likely to back out and tie up the cylinder. Do it one at a time and be prepared to whack the cylinder a bit to open the revolver." Sport, or anyone else can you explain this. I don't see the reason a primer would back out. To the original question, I'd advise against removing them live.

August 22, 2009, 09:33 AM	#15
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	A few comments: 1. If you fire an empty case with a primer in it in your revolver, the firing pin will push the case forward as far as it can go and then the primer will build-up enough pressure inside the primer pocket to push the primer back as far as it can go, completely bridging the space between the cylinder and the recoil shield. This is normal whenever you fire a cartridge. What is not normal is that there is no powder in the case to burn and build-up pressure there to force the case back and reseat the primer flush with the case head. SO, the protruding primer will make it hard to turn or open the cylinder. If you do decide to fire a few empty cases in your gun to check the primers, do them one at a time so that the case can be removed most easily; don't keep firing with a cylinder full until everything is jammed tight. 2. If you do fire a few and they work, then why not just load then with mild (for a .454) charges of an easily ignited powder and use them for plinking? 3. Using wax bullets will make a mess that you would need to clean out of your gun before going to regular ammo. AND, wax bullets are typically loaded in cases that have had the flash holes drilled-out to keep the primers from backing out and tying-up the gun. You can't drill-out the flash holes with the primers already seated, so this does not sound like a useful suggestion for your present situation. 4. You can USUALLY decap live primers without setting them off. But, Farmland makes an excellent point about other live primers that have already been removed. You DO NOT want those anywhere near the one that is being decapped at the moment. A cup from an exploding primer blowing into a bunch of live primers in a spent-primer catcher could definitely set off the whole catcher-full. So, if you are going to decap them, make sure you catch each one and put it somewhere else before doing the next one. Explosions of tubes full of live primers on progressive loading machines are notorious for SERIOUSLY injuring relaoders. And, those typically happen because of a jam somewhere in the apparatus CRUSHING a primer, not necessarily WHACKING IT hard. SL1

August 22, 2009, 09:53 AM	#16
Big G Member Join Date: December 6, 2008 Location: ellisville, MS Posts: 49	I agree about the primers backing out, if you will read about speers rubber bullets that are powered by nothing but the primer, they tell you to drill the flash hole out to a bigger size.If you do this be sure to mark the cases, file a notch in the rim or buy some brass black and keep them away from your other brass.

August 22, 2009, 10:10 AM	#17
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	" I was wondering if its ok to decap live primers" Ahhh, Snuffy! You just had to inject some common sense into an opinion topic didn't you! In this "Protect the Stupid" law-suit happy society, would any of us think a loading manual WOULD say it's fine to push out live primers? But, "the most dangerous thing we can do?" Hardly. After doing several hundred over the last 47 years of loading, I may have blown my hands off a few times but I haven't noticed it. If/when one pops, the upper part of any such tiny explosion is contained in a steel sizing die. There really isn't any great hazard of blowing that out of the press, right? At the bottom end, the hypothetical "risk" of setting off a pile of ejected live primers is perhaps easily reduced to tolerable levels by removing them from time to time. ?? Impact is what sets off primers so decap live primers just as you decap spent ones. Surely, even the most dense of us wouldn't slap the handle down on ANY primer. Or not? Some folks say if they make anything more fool proof the gene pool will provide a more capable fool!

August 22, 2009, 12:43 PM	#18
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	For anyone squeemish about decapping a live primer, I wonder what they would do when a primer gets stuck sideways in the lee hand prime tool?? I do take precations as to where things are pointed, and powder containers properly covered, then crush the offending primer into the pocket. Then it still has to be pressed out. Not something to take without some precautions but it has to be done from time to time. The most common live one I have to decap is the one in up-side-down. I do not reuse them, as its just not worth picking through the hopper. and I always have my safety glasses on, I only buy safety glasses. As for poping them off in a firearm, I wouldn't bother. They are very dirty, every one of them, I would say 10 times dirty'er than shooting a load, as long as its not B/P. And yes they do back out and make it hard to rotate the clyinder. I have one time had to reseat the spent primer with a dowel to rotate the cylinder becase I just didn't want to force it to hard. __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

August 22, 2009, 01:00 PM	#19
bobotech Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Posts: 60	I decap live primers all the time, never had an issue with them ever. Now to the OP, why don't you load up the rounds? The brass is primed and ready to go, why not make use of it? The 454 calls for small rifle primer if I remember correctly so they should be loaded up with small rifle primers. Now even if they are small pistol primers in there, they still should go off with no problem. I have heard of guys using small pistol in 454 with no ill effects. I just think that worrying about unknown live primers in empty brass is a non-issue unless you are a bench rest shooter where every variable counts. Just load them up and have fun and look at the free primers as a freebie.

August 22, 2009, 05:15 PM	#20
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I wouldn't decap the live primers - and I wouldn't load the primed brass with powder and bullets because you have no idea what they are. Shoot the primed cases in your gun.

August 22, 2009, 08:42 PM	#21
freonr22 Member Join Date: December 17, 2008 Posts: 54	I have done 20 on my progressive, no issues, but did it slow... ymmv

August 22, 2009, 11:11 PM	#23
cali92rs Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Posts: 38	To Bobotech... I am kinda new to reloading (well, Ive been doing it for about a year now with 45ACP and 10mm), but i guess I am just a bit more cautious because I have never reloaded for 454. I may just do that though, take advantage of the free primers.

August 22, 2009, 11:45 PM	#24
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	i have accidentally seated primers into my 45's before. I would de prime the normal way, except go slow on the live ones, and then re-seat them normally. I used a Lee die on a lee turret. After I de-prime the live primer, it has a small dent in it, like its been fired, but much less indentation. I re-install them. This was my first reloads. I had 4 of them I screwed up on. I took them to the range, and all the loads went off just fine. Even the indented primer ones. Hey I am not saying its safe, but I am saying I didn't know about this and I did it and it was fine.