Which Lead round ball Diameter does fit perfectly into an 20 gauge shotshell wad?

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 13, 2016, 06:11 PM

Hi there,

I have an question.
Does anyone know for sure which Lead round ball Diameter does fit perfectly into an 20 gauge shotshell Plastik wad-cup?

My Mossberg 20 ga Turkey THUG shotgun is arriving shortly (I hope so) and I planned preparing rounds for it like an Lead Round ball as slug. It will be a Kind of Musketball round.
I understand the shotgun is nothing else than an modern musket.

I already ordered an Lee .562" round ball mold and it has arrived already today with my other Lee molds (105 grain SWC .358"; 120 grain Truncated Cone .356" and 148 grain WC .358" Diameter; all are Elmer Keith style bullet molds lube grooves). Is this .562" Diameter round ball the best Fitting or which one is best for 20 gauge?
The Lee 7/8 oz Drive key slug is perfectly Fitting in an 12 ga shotshell cup-wad.

Please share if anyone knows from personal experience.

Reloadron · October 13, 2016, 06:35 PM

I am not a shotgun type but a 20 Gauge slug has about a 0.625" diameter and typically weighs in around 7/8 ounce. Personally I would look to work on some published, known safe data to get where you want to go with this.

Ron

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 14, 2016, 09:50 AM

One more question.

This .562" Diameter round ball will it have some use in 12 gauge as a Kind of Tri-ball round (or 2 ball round)?

Like I put 2 or 3 of These lead .562" Diameter into the wad (Cup) of an 12 ga 2 3/4 Shell and use it as such for hunting or defense.

Will that work?

Reloadron · October 14, 2016, 10:25 AM

I have no idea and do not suggest just shoving weight in shot shells. I have no idea what shot shell pressures will result and know nothing about your gun. You just jumped from 20 to 12 gauge? Maybe someone else will come along with a better understanding of what you are trying to do. You can always buy slugs in 12 or 20 gauge or things like 00 buck.

Ron

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 14, 2016, 11:02 AM

The idea is this: The shotgun is the poormans rifle.

I have some workers who hunt up to 100 Yards with their shotgun so in order to help them save Money I will load their shotshells with eighter 7/8 oz Lee slug or put 2 or 3 of These in their 12 ga Shells. If there is a hit the hog will be for sure dead I guess.

For me I will use the 20 ga as well for hunting and defense with the pumpkin ball.

I mean this: if it is working for George Washington it is certainly working for us as well. This would be a type of George Washington load (Ball or Buck&ball).

g.willikers · October 14, 2016, 11:03 AM

Years ago, a good friend decided to find out what 20 gauge ammo would be the most accurate at up to 100 yards.
He found that a single round ball, suitably loaded was it.
But shotguns are not much like rifles and reloading for them is quite different, too.
Especially mixing components.
Shotgun reloading is much more stringent about that.
The hulls, powder and shot load must match one another, according to the reloading manuals data information.
The lower pressure of shotgun ammo can be misleading.
Getting creative can be very dangerous.
Think of how thin the barrels are.
Caution is in order for inventing custom loads.
Definitely get a shotgun reloading instruction book before doing anything.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 14, 2016, 11:28 AM

Well I guess Lee will not make any slug molds if they are dangerous. But yes you are rigth g.willikers.

The most important Thing is NOT EXCEEDING THE ORIGINAL LEAD WEIGHT.

I just open the hull, take out the shot and stuff the round ball/slug into the wad. That is all I doo.

Just Keep under the original shot weight and all is Ok. This .562" Diameter ball has an weigth of about 262 grains that is less than 5/8 oz (a relative just showed me the mold box via Skype).
If an 20 ga has an normal weight of 7/8 oz then I am fine. All my 12 ga I like to Keep around 7/8 oz for comfort of Shooting.

Data:
My 12 ga shotshells have originally 437 grains of shot in and I shoot an 382 grain slug out of them (7/8 oz Lee slug).
My 20 ga shotshells have originally 370 grains shot in them and I shoot an 262 grain Lee .562" pumpkin lead round ball out of it.
You see I am allways way below the original weight of the shot and that means way less pressure.

briandg · October 14, 2016, 07:55 PM

I think that it would be an incredibly terrible idea to ever sell your handloads to someone else. I suggest that you stop that practice immediately.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 14, 2016, 08:28 PM

Dear briandg,

I may have missed your Point.

You suggest closing Lee Precision because they make an unsafe product?

As I understand that is what Lee intended with their slug mold as well buckshot molds: TRANSFORMING "cheapo" birdshot Shells into expensive buckshot/slug rounds.

Factory 12 ga slugs cost here about 2 US$. Factory 12 ga 00 Buckshot costs here about 1 US$ per round.
A birdshot costs here about 0.6 US$. So transforming an 0.6$ round into an 2$round saves you 1.4 US$ per round. Thats what I call saving Money with casting-reloading! With buckshot you save "only" 0.4$ per round but it is an considerable saving if you think about it.

Obviously you can reload the entire hull, wad and slug if you got the powder and primer what we here in Southamerica do NOT have availlable (no reloading supplys for shotshells whatsoever but plenty factory birdshot Shells).

John C · October 15, 2016, 03:43 PM

TGOSA: I think you're thinking is right on. The only problem I foresee is that shotshells are generally finely engineered so that the speed of the powder matches the weight of the shot. By using a lighter weight projectile, you are altering that balance. Unsafe? Likely not. Efficient? Likely not.

A great source of info are the Ballistic Products' manuals. They have one on buckshot and one on slugs. They have good information on "pumpkin ball" loads, as well. You can find them on the Ballistic Products website.

I've followed your threads with interest, and understand the limitations you're working with. With that in mind, work with what you have, and have fun.

One thing occurs to me. You mention that local gun stores sell primers, but not powder. The fact that they sell primers indicates that somebody locally has powder.

Also, while BrianG's advice is spot on for the litigious US, you should evaluate his advice in the light on your local conditions.

g.willikers · October 15, 2016, 04:38 PM

Quote:

The most important Thing is NOT EXCEEDING THE ORIGINAL LEAD WEIGHT.

Looking at the shotgun reloading manuals, any change in the amount (and weight) of the shot (or presumably ball) load requires a change in the wad.
Don't know if it's for concerns of safety or not, though.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 15, 2016, 06:58 PM

John C

I have posted here some photos from the 7/8 oz slug accuracy from 50 meters distance. As well some of my weapons.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=580640

Gunplummer · October 15, 2016, 07:59 PM

I am old enough to remember "Punkin' balls". I cut some old ones open once and they vary in diameter depending on the brand. Some would roll down and out my barrel, some would not. I attribute this to the out-of-roundness of some of the balls. Most were way under the bore size. Same with rifled slugs. Diameter seems to be dictated by who made them.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 15, 2016, 08:11 PM

Gunplummer,

Even These 7/8 oz Lee drive key slugs fall right out of my Barrel with the modified choke. Even with an Harrington&Richardson 12 ga single shot full fixed choke they fall right through. So no squeezing through choke rising pressures or danger of cracking the Barrel.

Within the plastic wad These 7/8 oz Lee slugs may not "fall out" the Barrel but Plastik is bending easily and I believe there is no danger.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 16, 2016, 08:12 AM

John C,

Yes we would assume if primers are availlable there must be powder as well present.
I am an Law abiding citizen. So I do not get involved in any smuggeling of powder.

But I know in Brazil you can buy gun powder but can not have primers. So most likely they bring the powder illegally from Brazil. Here locally you can buy primers but powder is not legal (they say it is legal but no shipping Company agrees anymore to ship it from the USA. You never know which is the truth).

I would never dear to sell commercially These reloads. Since it gets harder and harder to even buy factory ammo. For buying factory ammo you have to be an owner of an legal gun, have it registred and have the Registration up to date (renovation each 3rd year with an hefty fee).So poor People can not even get ammo anymore. Sometimes Police is selling illegally the ammo as well on an Commercial scale (no papers to Show or gun ownership neccesary).

Mike38 · October 16, 2016, 08:32 AM

"TheGuy", I would guess the reason people are suggesting to you to stop selling your reloads is liability. If something goes wrong, even if it's nothing you did, you are wide open for law suits. But maybe South America isn't as law suit crazy as the USA is.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 16, 2016, 08:46 AM

If you sell it to a latin Person they will most likely ambush you and shoot you if the ammo they bought from you goes wrong.

White People (mostly rich cattle Beef Producers) would not even bother buy from you since they trust only factory ammo (they got to rich already and so they do not Need to reload or cast). I am from the White minority as well, I am not rich but I see the reloading-casting as an creative alternative which saves lots of Money and is a good "sports".
I was allways a "square thinker" or "out of the box thinker".

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 19, 2016, 08:25 PM

The .562" lead round ball are a bit loose in an argentinian brans 20 ga shotshell wad. But the same can be observed for the 7/8 oz Lee drive key slug in an argentinian 12 ga shotshell wad. Seems the argentinian brand is a bit big.

However the spanish ones fit very nice regards the 7/8 oz slug. Once I have the opportunity I will buy a single spanish 20 ga Shell to see if they lock in there tight.

mr.snakeman · October 21, 2016, 10:45 AM

If your balls are loose in the bore, why not try doing what we do when shooting black powder single shot pistols and rifles: use a patch of the right thickness (trial by error-start thin and work up). Don´t know if you would need to lube the patch as we need to (probably, but who knows?) but you should be able to prevent the ball from ratteling down the barrel and hopefully improving the accuracy as well. Good luck!

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 21, 2016, 12:41 PM

It is a possibility to patch the lead bullets.

I would use maybe Leukoplast as glue-patch. Leukoplast farmacies use to tape wounds. The Leukoplast will stick to the lead and will not come off during flight or worse will flare partially come off and stear off track the round ball.

So finally I am not an fan of patchin the round ball. They have to fit perfectly. Unfortunatelly Amazon does not sell at the Moment a mold bigger than .562". I do not know why.
Amazon is the only firm willing to ship These items to Southamerica. Others like MidwayUSA, Cabelas, are declining shipments to Southamerica.

**Unclenick** · October 21, 2016, 01:35 PM

TGOFSA,

The way shotgun gauges are determined is by how many lead balls the same diameter as the bore weigh one pound. A lead ball that weighs 1/10 of a pound (1.6 oz) is the diameter of a 10 gauge bore, a lead ball weighs 1/12 of a pound (1.33 ounces) is the diameter of a 12 gauge bore, a lead ball that weighs 1/16 of a pound (1 oz.) is the diameter of a 16 gauge bore, and a lead ball that weight 1/20 of a pound (0.8 ounces) is the diameter of a 20 gauge bore.

Lead has a density of 11.34 grams/cc, a cubic inch is 16.387 cc, so a cubic inch of lead weighs 185.83 grams or 6.5549 ounces. Since we want 0.8 ounces for 20 gauge, we want the diameter of a ball that is 0.8/6.5549 cubic inches, or 0.12205 in³. The volume of a sphere is 4/3πr³, so

0.12205/(4/3π) = r³ = 0.029137

0.029137^(1/3) = 0.307716 = r

So the ball and your 20 gauge bore diameter are twice that or 0.61543"

This is, of course, ideal (excluding rounding error). Actual numbers come from British tables published in the British Proof Act of 1868, and are still used in the U.S. The table numbers are treated as the minimum, and a tolerance of up to +0.020" oversize conforms to the standard.

Code:

Gauge  Min     Max

 10   0.775"  0.795"
 12   0.725"  0.745"
 16   0.665"  0.685"
 20   0.615"  0.635"

So your 20 gauge will have a bore somewhere in that last range. It may be in the middle, but you should measure it when it arrives, as machining capability improves all the time.

briandg · October 21, 2016, 05:16 PM

The real question is going to be when that solid ball hits the choke at supersonic speeds with a giant splat. Even with a slightly undersized ball with a patch, that's still going to be unpredictable.

There was a design that made pumpkin balls fly straight once. A hole was bored into it and twine was glued into place. The piece of twine stabilized the flight by drag.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 21, 2016, 05:36 PM

I have read on som Posts or saw at Youtube that regards contrary opinion of most People, the ROUND eBALL one of the most accurate "bullet" type is. Even in an smooth bore musket.
On the other Hand some say the soldiers equipped around the era of Napoleon marched in lines (hence The Firing Line) in order to hit at least something at 100 Yards. Only at the american civil war as rifled muskets became Standard they were able to hit with the minie or even round ball a target at even 500 Yards.

I wonder how accurate saboted (wad) round balls really are from an smooth bore musket (aka shotgun. A shotgun is nothing else then an modern slide action musket). Saboted round ball and no rifling.

I stopped using the 7/8 oz Lee drive key slug with an modified choke since the wad+slug do not go easy enough through the modified choke. The choke has to be of Improved Cylinder or even skeet according to FortuneCoockie45LC in his Youtube Videos (the wad can determine the pressure. If it goes easy through then it is Ok. If the wad+slug combo has to be forced trough then the choke has to be wider).

My question is which Diameter lead round ball will fit in the 20 ga wad Cup.

IMtheNRA · October 21, 2016, 06:48 PM

Depends on the wad cup in your shotgun shell. I have wads here of varying wall thickness.

You may have to make a wooden ball and sand it down until it fits. Then, you'll know for sure. Until you get another brand of ammo or the manufacturer changes the wad, and you'll have to start over.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 21, 2016, 07:38 PM

What do you mean with wooden ball and sanding it down? Is that a sort of efemerism?

Yes the argentinian brand generally (12 ga as well 20 ga I realised) have a slightly bigger Diameter (maybe both wad and Shell or the wad is thinner but does not look like that).

I probably just Switch to other brand (spanish ones) which will be tight.

Unfortunatelly sine I am located in Southamerica I can not get wads nor hulls nor 209 primers, nor powder whatsoever.
But that is fine. I am just happy I came as far as I did with my reloading proyect. As I know I am within 400 miles the only one who is here reloading under These circumstances. But local conditions-restrictions are way better than those in Brazil for example (those guys ther they did not even get to bullet casting since they can not get molds in).

October 13, 2016, 06:11 PM	#1
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	Which Lead round ball Diameter does fit perfectly into an 20 gauge shotshell wad? Hi there, I have an question. Does anyone know for sure which Lead round ball Diameter does fit perfectly into an 20 gauge shotshell Plastik wad-cup? My Mossberg 20 ga Turkey THUG shotgun is arriving shortly (I hope so) and I planned preparing rounds for it like an Lead Round ball as slug. It will be a Kind of Musketball round. I understand the shotgun is nothing else than an modern musket. I already ordered an Lee .562" round ball mold and it has arrived already today with my other Lee molds (105 grain SWC .358"; 120 grain Truncated Cone .356" and 148 grain WC .358" Diameter; all are Elmer Keith style bullet molds lube grooves). Is this .562" Diameter round ball the best Fitting or which one is best for 20 gauge? The Lee 7/8 oz Drive key slug is perfectly Fitting in an 12 ga shotshell cup-wad. Please share if anyone knows from personal experience.

October 14, 2016, 09:50 AM	#3
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	What about using these .562" as "Tri-ball" in 12 gauge? One more question. This .562" Diameter round ball will it have some use in 12 gauge as a Kind of Tri-ball round (or 2 ball round)? Like I put 2 or 3 of These lead .562" Diameter into the wad (Cup) of an 12 ga 2 3/4 Shell and use it as such for hunting or defense. Will that work?

October 14, 2016, 11:03 AM	#6
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Years ago, a good friend decided to find out what 20 gauge ammo would be the most accurate at up to 100 yards. He found that a single round ball, suitably loaded was it. But shotguns are not much like rifles and reloading for them is quite different, too. Especially mixing components. Shotgun reloading is much more stringent about that. The hulls, powder and shot load must match one another, according to the reloading manuals data information. The lower pressure of shotgun ammo can be misleading. Getting creative can be very dangerous. Think of how thin the barrels are. Caution is in order for inventing custom loads. Definitely get a shotgun reloading instruction book before doing anything. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

October 14, 2016, 07:55 PM	#8
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	I think that it would be an incredibly terrible idea to ever sell your handloads to someone else. I suggest that you stop that practice immediately. __________________ None.

October 21, 2016, 10:45 AM	#19
mr.snakeman Member Join Date: January 15, 2006 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 20	If your balls are loose in the bore, why not try doing what we do when shooting black powder single shot pistols and rifles: use a patch of the right thickness (trial by error-start thin and work up). Don´t know if you would need to lube the patch as we need to (probably, but who knows?) but you should be able to prevent the ball from ratteling down the barrel and hopefully improving the accuracy as well. Good luck! __________________ ISSF national judge

October 13, 2016, 06:35 PM	#2
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	I am not a shotgun type but a 20 Gauge slug has about a 0.625" diameter and typically weighs in around 7/8 ounce. Personally I would look to work on some published, known safe data to get where you want to go with this. Ron

October 14, 2016, 10:25 AM	#4
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	I have no idea and do not suggest just shoving weight in shot shells. I have no idea what shot shell pressures will result and know nothing about your gun. You just jumped from 20 to 12 gauge? Maybe someone else will come along with a better understanding of what you are trying to do. You can always buy slugs in 12 or 20 gauge or things like 00 buck. Ron

October 14, 2016, 11:02 AM	#5
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	The idea is this: The shotgun is the poormans rifle. I have some workers who hunt up to 100 Yards with their shotgun so in order to help them save Money I will load their shotshells with eighter 7/8 oz Lee slug or put 2 or 3 of These in their 12 ga Shells. If there is a hit the hog will be for sure dead I guess. For me I will use the 20 ga as well for hunting and defense with the pumpkin ball. I mean this: if it is working for George Washington it is certainly working for us as well. This would be a type of George Washington load (Ball or Buck&ball).

October 14, 2016, 11:28 AM	#7
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	Well I guess Lee will not make any slug molds if they are dangerous. But yes you are rigth g.willikers. The most important Thing is NOT EXCEEDING THE ORIGINAL LEAD WEIGHT. I just open the hull, take out the shot and stuff the round ball/slug into the wad. That is all I doo. Just Keep under the original shot weight and all is Ok. This .562" Diameter ball has an weigth of about 262 grains that is less than 5/8 oz (a relative just showed me the mold box via Skype). If an 20 ga has an normal weight of 7/8 oz then I am fine. All my 12 ga I like to Keep around 7/8 oz for comfort of Shooting. Data: My 12 ga shotshells have originally 437 grains of shot in and I shoot an 382 grain slug out of them (7/8 oz Lee slug). My 20 ga shotshells have originally 370 grains shot in them and I shoot an 262 grain Lee .562" pumpkin lead round ball out of it. You see I am allways way below the original weight of the shot and that means way less pressure.

October 14, 2016, 08:28 PM	#9
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	Dear briandg, I may have missed your Point. You suggest closing Lee Precision because they make an unsafe product? As I understand that is what Lee intended with their slug mold as well buckshot molds: TRANSFORMING "cheapo" birdshot Shells into expensive buckshot/slug rounds. Factory 12 ga slugs cost here about 2 US$. Factory 12 ga 00 Buckshot costs here about 1 US$ per round. A birdshot costs here about 0.6 US$. So transforming an 0.6$ round into an 2$round saves you 1.4 US$ per round. Thats what I call saving Money with casting-reloading! With buckshot you save "only" 0.4$ per round but it is an considerable saving if you think about it. Obviously you can reload the entire hull, wad and slug if you got the powder and primer what we here in Southamerica do NOT have availlable (no reloading supplys for shotshells whatsoever but plenty factory birdshot Shells).

October 15, 2016, 03:43 PM	#10
John C Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2005 Posts: 127	TGOSA: I think you're thinking is right on. The only problem I foresee is that shotshells are generally finely engineered so that the speed of the powder matches the weight of the shot. By using a lighter weight projectile, you are altering that balance. Unsafe? Likely not. Efficient? Likely not. A great source of info are the Ballistic Products' manuals. They have one on buckshot and one on slugs. They have good information on "pumpkin ball" loads, as well. You can find them on the Ballistic Products website. I've followed your threads with interest, and understand the limitations you're working with. With that in mind, work with what you have, and have fun. One thing occurs to me. You mention that local gun stores sell primers, but not powder. The fact that they sell primers indicates that somebody locally has powder. Also, while BrianG's advice is spot on for the litigious US, you should evaluate his advice in the light on your local conditions.

October 15, 2016, 06:58 PM	#12
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	John C I have posted here some photos from the 7/8 oz slug accuracy from 50 meters distance. As well some of my weapons. https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=580640

October 15, 2016, 07:59 PM	#13
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I am old enough to remember "Punkin' balls". I cut some old ones open once and they vary in diameter depending on the brand. Some would roll down and out my barrel, some would not. I attribute this to the out-of-roundness of some of the balls. Most were way under the bore size. Same with rifled slugs. Diameter seems to be dictated by who made them.

October 15, 2016, 08:11 PM	#14
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	Gunplummer, Even These 7/8 oz Lee drive key slugs fall right out of my Barrel with the modified choke. Even with an Harrington&Richardson 12 ga single shot full fixed choke they fall right through. So no squeezing through choke rising pressures or danger of cracking the Barrel. Within the plastic wad These 7/8 oz Lee slugs may not "fall out" the Barrel but Plastik is bending easily and I believe there is no danger.

October 16, 2016, 08:12 AM	#15
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	John C, Yes we would assume if primers are availlable there must be powder as well present. I am an Law abiding citizen. So I do not get involved in any smuggeling of powder. But I know in Brazil you can buy gun powder but can not have primers. So most likely they bring the powder illegally from Brazil. Here locally you can buy primers but powder is not legal (they say it is legal but no shipping Company agrees anymore to ship it from the USA. You never know which is the truth). I would never dear to sell commercially These reloads. Since it gets harder and harder to even buy factory ammo. For buying factory ammo you have to be an owner of an legal gun, have it registred and have the Registration up to date (renovation each 3rd year with an hefty fee).So poor People can not even get ammo anymore. Sometimes Police is selling illegally the ammo as well on an Commercial scale (no papers to Show or gun ownership neccesary).

October 16, 2016, 08:32 AM	#16
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	"TheGuy", I would guess the reason people are suggesting to you to stop selling your reloads is liability. If something goes wrong, even if it's nothing you did, you are wide open for law suits. But maybe South America isn't as law suit crazy as the USA is.

October 16, 2016, 08:46 AM	#17
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	If you sell it to a latin Person they will most likely ambush you and shoot you if the ammo they bought from you goes wrong. White People (mostly rich cattle Beef Producers) would not even bother buy from you since they trust only factory ammo (they got to rich already and so they do not Need to reload or cast). I am from the White minority as well, I am not rich but I see the reloading-casting as an creative alternative which saves lots of Money and is a good "sports". I was allways a "square thinker" or "out of the box thinker".

October 19, 2016, 08:25 PM	#18
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	The .562" lead round ball are a bit loose in an argentinian brans 20 ga shotshell wad. But the same can be observed for the 7/8 oz Lee drive key slug in an argentinian 12 ga shotshell wad. Seems the argentinian brand is a bit big. However the spanish ones fit very nice regards the 7/8 oz slug. Once I have the opportunity I will buy a single spanish 20 ga Shell to see if they lock in there tight.

October 21, 2016, 12:41 PM	#20
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	It is a possibility to patch the lead bullets. I would use maybe Leukoplast as glue-patch. Leukoplast farmacies use to tape wounds. The Leukoplast will stick to the lead and will not come off during flight or worse will flare partially come off and stear off track the round ball. So finally I am not an fan of patchin the round ball. They have to fit perfectly. Unfortunatelly Amazon does not sell at the Moment a mold bigger than .562". I do not know why. Amazon is the only firm willing to ship These items to Southamerica. Others like MidwayUSA, Cabelas, are declining shipments to Southamerica.

October 21, 2016, 01:35 PM	#21
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	TGOFSA, The way shotgun gauges are determined is by how many lead balls the same diameter as the bore weigh one pound. A lead ball that weighs 1/10 of a pound (1.6 oz) is the diameter of a 10 gauge bore, a lead ball weighs 1/12 of a pound (1.33 ounces) is the diameter of a 12 gauge bore, a lead ball that weighs 1/16 of a pound (1 oz.) is the diameter of a 16 gauge bore, and a lead ball that weight 1/20 of a pound (0.8 ounces) is the diameter of a 20 gauge bore. Lead has a density of 11.34 grams/cc, a cubic inch is 16.387 cc, so a cubic inch of lead weighs 185.83 grams or 6.5549 ounces. Since we want 0.8 ounces for 20 gauge, we want the diameter of a ball that is 0.8/6.5549 cubic inches, or 0.12205 in³. The volume of a sphere is 4/3πr³, so 0.12205/(4/3π) = r³ = 0.029137 0.029137^(1/3) = 0.307716 = r So the ball and your 20 gauge bore diameter are twice that or 0.61543" This is, of course, ideal (excluding rounding error). Actual numbers come from British tables published in the British Proof Act of 1868, and are still used in the U.S. The table numbers are treated as the minimum, and a tolerance of up to +0.020" oversize conforms to the standard. Code: Gauge Min Max 10 0.775" 0.795" 12 0.725" 0.745" 16 0.665" 0.685" 20 0.615" 0.635" So your 20 gauge will have a bore somewhere in that last range. It may be in the middle, but you should measure it when it arrives, as machining capability improves all the time. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 21, 2016, 05:16 PM	#22
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	The real question is going to be when that solid ball hits the choke at supersonic speeds with a giant splat. Even with a slightly undersized ball with a patch, that's still going to be unpredictable. There was a design that made pumpkin balls fly straight once. A hole was bored into it and twine was glued into place. The piece of twine stabilized the flight by drag. __________________ None.

October 21, 2016, 05:36 PM	#23
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	I have read on som Posts or saw at Youtube that regards contrary opinion of most People, the ROUND eBALL one of the most accurate "bullet" type is. Even in an smooth bore musket. On the other Hand some say the soldiers equipped around the era of Napoleon marched in lines (hence The Firing Line) in order to hit at least something at 100 Yards. Only at the american civil war as rifled muskets became Standard they were able to hit with the minie or even round ball a target at even 500 Yards. I wonder how accurate saboted (wad) round balls really are from an smooth bore musket (aka shotgun. A shotgun is nothing else then an modern slide action musket). Saboted round ball and no rifling. I stopped using the 7/8 oz Lee drive key slug with an modified choke since the wad+slug do not go easy enough through the modified choke. The choke has to be of Improved Cylinder or even skeet according to FortuneCoockie45LC in his Youtube Videos (the wad can determine the pressure. If it goes easy through then it is Ok. If the wad+slug combo has to be forced trough then the choke has to be wider). My question is which Diameter lead round ball will fit in the 20 ga wad Cup.

October 21, 2016, 06:48 PM	#24
IMtheNRA Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2001 Posts: 298	Depends on the wad cup in your shotgun shell. I have wads here of varying wall thickness. You may have to make a wooden ball and sand it down until it fits. Then, you'll know for sure. Until you get another brand of ammo or the manufacturer changes the wad, and you'll have to start over.

October 21, 2016, 07:38 PM	#25
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	What do you mean with wooden ball and sanding it down? Is that a sort of efemerism? Yes the argentinian brand generally (12 ga as well 20 ga I realised) have a slightly bigger Diameter (maybe both wad and Shell or the wad is thinner but does not look like that). I probably just Switch to other brand (spanish ones) which will be tight. Unfortunatelly sine I am located in Southamerica I can not get wads nor hulls nor 209 primers, nor powder whatsoever. But that is fine. I am just happy I came as far as I did with my reloading proyect. As I know I am within 400 miles the only one who is here reloading under These circumstances. But local conditions-restrictions are way better than those in Brazil for example (those guys ther they did not even get to bullet casting since they can not get molds in).