Any Problems With Winchester Primers Lately?

JeepHammer · September 23, 2016, 09:19 AM

I seem to be having issues with Winchester primers lately,
Burrs on the edges, out of round cups, wanting to hang up in primer tubes, ect.

Winchester has always been my 'Go To', but lately, and more often, I'm having hang-ups, ect.
After some inspections, ragged burrs on lip of cup, out of round, ect.

Anyone else seeing this or do I just have a couple of bad batches laying around here?

SARuger · September 23, 2016, 09:38 AM

I have had issues with WLR's. About 1 in 30 will not ignite. I use them in my 30-30, 243 and 30-06. Same issues all three. I have been told it's my rifle(s) on the forums but I don't think I have issues with all three. Some say the primers are seated too high but I know they are not. I check with a straight edge.

As far as fitment, no issue there. I chamfer my primer pockets with a crimp remover. The primer slip right in with good smooth resistance. I prime on the press, a LCT.

JeepHammer · September 23, 2016, 09:54 AM

I use an automated case conditioner, trims off crimp, cuts primer pocket uniform depth and round.
Very consistant primer pockets...

Its burrs or out of round primers I'm finding, along with inconsistant height on the cups.
No ignition misses that I've noticed...

Seems like the QC wasn't what it should have been in 5 or 6 lot numbers I have on hand, I buy 10K to 50K at a time, so its kind of a big deal having to clear a primer feed jam 2 or 3 times for every 100 primers...

Guess I'll muddle my way through what's on hand and switch to CCI for a while.

mrdaputer · September 23, 2016, 11:53 AM

Code:

Burrs on the edges, out of round cups, wanting to hang up in primer tubes, ect.

I have had the same issues that you had. It was small pistol primers.

Savage99 · September 23, 2016, 09:57 PM

The Winchester WLR primers that I got that are NOT plated are undersize!

They are brass color and not nickel or whatever the chrome looking plating was.

They must have forgotten that the plating adds diameter to the product.

The ones I have fit loose in good new brass!

Stats Shooter · September 23, 2016, 11:46 PM

Not that you asked this, but I have always been a CCI fan. So far only 1 ftf in about 30k hand loads and I think I actually deformed that primer by not properly Swagging a crimped pocket.

Metal god · September 24, 2016, 01:37 AM

Not yet and use them a lot . I've for sure had all the issues brought up here . Hanging up in my hand primer , seating hard or to light but they've always went bang . This is interesting because I never considered the primers being the issue of my seating issue and always blamed it on the tools or brass . Next time I'll take a closer look at the primers .

Quote:

I have been told it's my rifle(s) on the forums but I don't think I have issues with all three. Some say the primers are seated too high but I know they are not. I check with a straight edge.

I've read that primers should be counter sunk .003 to .005 . If you have a hand priming tool I'd check if you can seat them deeper . I only mention this because that failure rate is WAY more then anything I've ever heard . It's either you're not seating them deep enough and when the firing pin hits them they move resulting in failure to compress or they need to be sent back to Winchester because there is clearly a problem they need to be aware of.

1stmar · September 24, 2016, 05:01 AM

I've had about 3-4 wsp that didn't go off on the first, second and in one case the third attempt. Ultimately they all did go off. I checked the primers and the hits looked good and primers were seated deep enough

Nick_C_S · September 24, 2016, 06:03 PM

The only Winchester primer experience I have is with WSP's. I use them for my 38 Special "race gun." It's hardly a full-race competition gun; but it has had a mild trigger job - just mild enough to where about 1 in 200 CCI 500's will fail to ignite (index the cylinder back one notch, stab it again, and it ignites). So for that gun only, I use WSP's. (Which means I use a lot of WSP's, because I shoot that gun more than any other - by far.)

I have found that they don't slide around in the hand primer tray as easily (not nickel plated, I suspect is the issue), so they tend to want to "grip" the tray floor and flip over/sideways, etc. - just doesn't quite go as smoothly for the priming process. They also tend to want to hang up going into the pocket sometimes (out of round??)

But other than that, no problems.

Chainsaw. · September 24, 2016, 06:14 PM

This is not the first time Ive heard complaints of winchester primer lately. QC must be down. Wonder if someone has been sharpening the perverbial pencil.

jmr40 · September 24, 2016, 07:03 PM

Call Winchester with the lot number. I've read of some issues. It isn't bad enough to justify a recall, but others have called and if the primers were within a certain range of lot numbers Winchester replaced them.

At one time someone on another forum posted the affected lot numbers, but that was months ago and I have no idea how to find it.

edfardos · September 25, 2016, 10:56 AM

Win lpp in rp 44mag cases crack at the shoulder . Put five pits in my recoil plate before I noticed. Switched to CCI.

Metal god · September 25, 2016, 11:07 AM

3 out of 30 WLP last night flipped sideways and were crushed while seating . I hate when that happens because I can't take the case out of the shell holder and need to transfer the shell holder and case together to my press for de-capping . I don't think I have these issues with my WLR primers but I do seem to have priming issues with both large and small pistol primers . I guess need to take a serous look at changing .

849ACSO · September 25, 2016, 11:13 AM

Quote:

They are brass color and not nickel or whatever the chrome looking plating was.

I use quite a few Win primers the past few years. I've never even seen a plated Win primer. All of mine have been/are brass/copper colored.

**Unclenick** · September 25, 2016, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARuger

Some say the primers are seated too high but I know they are not. I check with a straight edge.

Metal god is correct that flush with the head is not deep enough. In fact, different makers set their primer pockets to slightly different depths. For ideal seating you want to measure how deep your primer pockets are and how tall your primers are. Subtract the latter from the former, then subtract another 0.002-0.004" for setting the bridge (aka, reconsolidation). You normally wind up with a negative number that is how far below flush that primer needs to be for optimal ignition.

Measuring primer pocket depth is a little tricky. You can do it with the depth probe that sticks out of the far end of your calipers when you open the jaws, but I have found it is very easy to get a low reading doing that because of slight tilting of the case across the probe flat. Using the largest number you get this way by making measurements on a bunch of cases and using the minimum reconsolidation number of -0.002" is one way to try to handle it. I find a short pin that is flat on each end, and measure the case and the pin, put the pin in the flash hole and measure the two together, subtracting the latter from the sum of first two measurements to get pocket depth. It seems to be more consistent, but try for yourself and see.

pctechdude · September 26, 2016, 11:24 PM

Never had any issues with the small pistol primers from winchester. I just bought 2000 and used around 400 of them this past weekend. Not one issue. Now a few years ago I had some issues with the large pistol primers in 45 acp's not going off.

I usually go for the Winchester's in small pistol and federal in large pistol.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

towman32 · September 27, 2016, 12:14 AM

I have used winchester since I started reloading a few years ago and haven't had any bad ones (that I noticed) and 0 ftf. However I haven't bought any in the last 6 months since I bought in bulk. I'm not as experienced as the others on here but I would definetly contact winchester and run this by them. You never know unless you try! Worst case they say sorry can't help, best case they send you new ones plus some for your inconvenience.

FrankenMauser · September 27, 2016, 10:58 AM

I've had issues with WLR, WSP, and WLP made within the last 1-8 years.

Lots of brittle cups.
Lots of burrs.
Lots of headaches.

The WLP primers were the worst for brittleness, cracking at the radius of the cup or around the firing pin impression; and causing gas cutting in loads running just 25k-32k psi. (Not piercing, just cracking.)

A quick search didn't pull either up, but, in at least two threads here, I listed the lot numbers that have given me trouble.

BigJimP · September 27, 2016, 11:29 AM

Yes, I have had issues with Win small pistol primers.../ out of round a little bit, burrs on edges...and are having some issues inserting them in the case - they get hung up a little and its irritating on a progressive press ( Dillon 650 )....

I load about 25,000 rds with small pistol primers every year ( 9mm, etc )...and the only reason I bought a few cases of Win SPP - were because there were a lot of them available at a decent price ...and I'm sorry I did. I'm down to the last 2,000 or so now ...out of the 20,000 I bought ...and I'll be happy when they're gone.

No ignition issues on them ... I'm just going back to CCI ( which I've used for 40 yrs or more ).

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · September 27, 2016, 12:03 PM

I use allways WSP primers and never had one not working well. One primer I seated with the Lee prime ram got somehow sideways and crunched and that one did not go off.

All other Winchester WSP worked allways flawless.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · September 27, 2016, 12:04 PM

I use Lyman reloading arm on the Lyman T Mag Turret press which works awesome. It is working allways and is such an nice set up.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · September 27, 2016, 12:37 PM

If flipping sideways is a Problem in priming that is not an issue of the primer. Priming Hardware is the Problem.

As I used the Lee ram prime Equipment almost all primers flipped. Once they flip and you press them they get crushed and do not go off.
I stopped using the Lee ram prime with the Lyman T Mag II Turret press and instead use the Lyman priming arm which came with the press. That works flawless.

F. Guffey · September 27, 2016, 02:29 PM

Quote:

I'm having hang-ups, ect.
After some inspections, ragged burrs on lip of cup, out of round, ect.

If my primers showed up at the front door with all of those problems I would insist the delivery company switch from rock hauling trucks to all air-ride

.

F. Guffey

JeepHammer · September 27, 2016, 05:57 PM

Non plated primers always gave me fits until I polished my primer feed table.
Solved the issue...

I've always had good luck and consistancy with WSR primers until the last year or so,
I measure the primer batch, cut primer pockets to fit the primers I use and always had VERY good results... Until lately...
No issue with CCI when I use them.

I have a 500 primer feed tube, switched back to 100 feed because of the hang-ups, trying to wrangle up to 500 when there is a feed hang is a daunting job!
Got tired of picking primers up off the bench, floor, out of my cloths,
Although the cat likes to bat them around!

Just wondering if anyone else had issues or it was just my home made equipment showing its age...

Longshot4 · September 27, 2016, 07:16 PM

In the last six weeks I have gone through about 800 Winchester primers and anouther 600 earlier. I don't recall ever having a primer not fire since 1978.

I have found that cases vary in pocket shape and depth is very common in rifle cases.

I have found that when I started using the Redding primer pocket uniformer on my rifle cases. All pocket problems go away such as tension pressing and primers seat at the proper depth.

I have found that some of the hand priming tool tray feeders will very in shape do to a plastic warping problem.

September 23, 2016, 09:19 AM	#1
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	Any Problems With Winchester Primers Lately? I seem to be having issues with Winchester primers lately, Burrs on the edges, out of round cups, wanting to hang up in primer tubes, ect. Winchester has always been my 'Go To', but lately, and more often, I'm having hang-ups, ect. After some inspections, ragged burrs on lip of cup, out of round, ect. Anyone else seeing this or do I just have a couple of bad batches laying around here?

September 23, 2016, 11:53 AM	#4
mrdaputer Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2013 Posts: 493	Code: Burrs on the edges, out of round cups, wanting to hang up in primer tubes, ect. I have had the same issues that you had. It was small pistol primers.

September 24, 2016, 06:03 PM	#9
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,521	WSP The only Winchester primer experience I have is with WSP's. I use them for my 38 Special "race gun." It's hardly a full-race competition gun; but it has had a mild trigger job - just mild enough to where about 1 in 200 CCI 500's will fail to ignite (index the cylinder back one notch, stab it again, and it ignites). So for that gun only, I use WSP's. (Which means I use a lot of WSP's, because I shoot that gun more than any other - by far.) I have found that they don't slide around in the hand primer tray as easily (not nickel plated, I suspect is the issue), so they tend to want to "grip" the tray floor and flip over/sideways, etc. - just doesn't quite go as smoothly for the priming process. They also tend to want to hang up going into the pocket sometimes (out of round??) But other than that, no problems. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

September 25, 2016, 11:07 AM	#13
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,874	3 out of 30 WLP last night flipped sideways and were crushed while seating . I hate when that happens because I can't take the case out of the shell holder and need to transfer the shell holder and case together to my press for de-capping . I don't think I have these issues with my WLR primers but I do seem to have priming issues with both large and small pistol primers . I guess need to take a serous look at changing . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

September 27, 2016, 12:14 AM	#17
towman32 Member Join Date: April 4, 2015 Posts: 57	I have used winchester since I started reloading a few years ago and haven't had any bad ones (that I noticed) and 0 ftf. However I haven't bought any in the last 6 months since I bought in bulk. I'm not as experienced as the others on here but I would definetly contact winchester and run this by them. You never know unless you try! Worst case they say sorry can't help, best case they send you new ones plus some for your inconvenience. __________________ Liberals want gun control. Concervatives just want to be left alone with their guns

September 23, 2016, 09:38 AM	#2
SARuger Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2014 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains of VA Posts: 954	I have had issues with WLR's. About 1 in 30 will not ignite. I use them in my 30-30, 243 and 30-06. Same issues all three. I have been told it's my rifle(s) on the forums but I don't think I have issues with all three. Some say the primers are seated too high but I know they are not. I check with a straight edge. As far as fitment, no issue there. I chamfer my primer pockets with a crimp remover. The primer slip right in with good smooth resistance. I prime on the press, a LCT.

September 23, 2016, 09:54 AM	#3
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	I use an automated case conditioner, trims off crimp, cuts primer pocket uniform depth and round. Very consistant primer pockets... Its burrs or out of round primers I'm finding, along with inconsistant height on the cups. No ignition misses that I've noticed... Seems like the QC wasn't what it should have been in 5 or 6 lot numbers I have on hand, I buy 10K to 50K at a time, so its kind of a big deal having to clear a primer feed jam 2 or 3 times for every 100 primers... Guess I'll muddle my way through what's on hand and switch to CCI for a while.

September 23, 2016, 09:57 PM	#5
Savage99 Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Posts: 567	The Winchester WLR primers that I got that are NOT plated are undersize! They are brass color and not nickel or whatever the chrome looking plating was. They must have forgotten that the plating adds diameter to the product. The ones I have fit loose in good new brass!

September 23, 2016, 11:46 PM	#6
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	Not that you asked this, but I have always been a CCI fan. So far only 1 ftf in about 30k hand loads and I think I actually deformed that primer by not properly Swagging a crimped pocket.

September 24, 2016, 05:01 AM	#8
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	I've had about 3-4 wsp that didn't go off on the first, second and in one case the third attempt. Ultimately they all did go off. I checked the primers and the hits looked good and primers were seated deep enough

September 24, 2016, 06:14 PM	#10
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	This is not the first time Ive heard complaints of winchester primer lately. QC must be down. Wonder if someone has been sharpening the perverbial pencil.

September 24, 2016, 07:03 PM	#11
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,803	Call Winchester with the lot number. I've read of some issues. It isn't bad enough to justify a recall, but others have called and if the primers were within a certain range of lot numbers Winchester replaced them. At one time someone on another forum posted the affected lot numbers, but that was months ago and I have no idea how to find it.

September 25, 2016, 10:56 AM	#12
edfardos Member Join Date: April 4, 2016 Posts: 84	Win lpp in rp 44mag cases crack at the shoulder . Put five pits in my recoil plate before I noticed. Switched to CCI.

September 26, 2016, 11:24 PM	#16
pctechdude Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2013 Posts: 159	Never had any issues with the small pistol primers from winchester. I just bought 2000 and used around 400 of them this past weekend. Not one issue. Now a few years ago I had some issues with the large pistol primers in 45 acp's not going off. I usually go for the Winchester's in small pistol and federal in large pistol. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

September 27, 2016, 10:58 AM	#18
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,421	I've had issues with WLR, WSP, and WLP made within the last 1-8 years. Lots of brittle cups. Lots of burrs. Lots of headaches. The WLP primers were the worst for brittleness, cracking at the radius of the cup or around the firing pin impression; and causing gas cutting in loads running just 25k-32k psi. (Not piercing, just cracking.) A quick search didn't pull either up, but, in at least two threads here, I listed the lot numbers that have given me trouble. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

September 27, 2016, 11:29 AM	#19
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Yes, I have had issues with Win small pistol primers.../ out of round a little bit, burrs on edges...and are having some issues inserting them in the case - they get hung up a little and its irritating on a progressive press ( Dillon 650 ).... I load about 25,000 rds with small pistol primers every year ( 9mm, etc )...and the only reason I bought a few cases of Win SPP - were because there were a lot of them available at a decent price ...and I'm sorry I did. I'm down to the last 2,000 or so now ...out of the 20,000 I bought ...and I'll be happy when they're gone. No ignition issues on them ... I'm just going back to CCI ( which I've used for 40 yrs or more ).

September 27, 2016, 12:03 PM	#20
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	I use allways WSP primers and never had one not working well. One primer I seated with the Lee prime ram got somehow sideways and crunched and that one did not go off. All other Winchester WSP worked allways flawless.

September 27, 2016, 12:04 PM	#21
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	I use Lyman reloading arm on the Lyman T Mag Turret press which works awesome. It is working allways and is such an nice set up.

September 27, 2016, 12:37 PM	#22
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	If flipping sideways is a Problem in priming that is not an issue of the primer. Priming Hardware is the Problem. As I used the Lee ram prime Equipment almost all primers flipped. Once they flip and you press them they get crushed and do not go off. I stopped using the Lee ram prime with the Lyman T Mag II Turret press and instead use the Lyman priming arm which came with the press. That works flawless.

September 27, 2016, 05:57 PM	#24
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	Non plated primers always gave me fits until I polished my primer feed table. Solved the issue... I've always had good luck and consistancy with WSR primers until the last year or so, I measure the primer batch, cut primer pockets to fit the primers I use and always had VERY good results... Until lately... No issue with CCI when I use them. I have a 500 primer feed tube, switched back to 100 feed because of the hang-ups, trying to wrangle up to 500 when there is a feed hang is a daunting job! Got tired of picking primers up off the bench, floor, out of my cloths, Although the cat likes to bat them around! Just wondering if anyone else had issues or it was just my home made equipment showing its age...

September 27, 2016, 07:16 PM	#25
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	In the last six weeks I have gone through about 800 Winchester primers and anouther 600 earlier. I don't recall ever having a primer not fire since 1978. I have found that cases vary in pocket shape and depth is very common in rifle cases. I have found that when I started using the Redding primer pocket uniformer on my rifle cases. All pocket problems go away such as tension pressing and primers seat at the proper depth. I have found that some of the hand priming tool tray feeders will very in shape do to a plastic warping problem.

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