New Remington 870 - another failure to extract story

[rantingredneck]

P.S. For every one post there are probably hundreds of people who didn't post.

As a general rule, people who are happy with a product will typically tell maybe 1 or 2 people. People who are unhappy will tell everyone they meet. This general rule applies to firearms as well.

[TMUSCLE1]

WILD ALASKA WROTE.....there are more than one reason for reported failures, one of which as I mentioned is improper storage

Wild...what exactly with the way shops store the 870s causes this problem? I had this problem, but I was able to fix it myself with a little help from some folks here.

I'm not being a smart a$$...I'm just curious.

[nefprotector]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by nefprotector
Winchester Breakfree powder cleaner

Therein lies the problem with the melty plastic. If you'll read the label closely I bet it warns against exposure to plastic parts/polymer frames/synthetic stocks and the like???

The Breakfree Powderblast you are using (now re-badged and sold in WalMart under the Winchester name) is forumlated to remove carbon and powder fouling along with plastic wadding residue from shotgun barrels. It's designed to melt plastic........

Switch to Birchwood Casey's Gunscrubber, synthetic safe version if you want an aerosol spray cleaner. Or be more careful with the Breakfree and keep it away from plastic parts.
__________________
NRA Member
NC Hunter's Education Instructor "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------Amen to that! Yes the label says can be harmful to plastics. I ordered a Remington replacement follower and Wolff replacement springs. Thanks for the info Sir.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Over the years I've found WildAlaska to be very knowledgeable--you noobs would do well to listen to him.

I've purchased several new Express' over the last few years and have never had a problem--even with the dreaded Winchester ammo.

I also break them down completely(except for the trigger group) and give them a good going over--I'd say most problems with the Express boil down to operator error--which includes knowing your gun completely.

If you look up my old posts--I'm no Remington fan either---but wouldn't hesitate to buy an 870.

[rc601962]

Just because someone is new to the board, does not mean they are new to guns. The google links settle this. It is a big problem with new 870 express guns.

The earth is not flat.

[Brian Pfleuger]

The google links settle this.

Oh God, yes, google searches settle EVERYTHING!

[Wildalaska]

They may not want to send it to you because they don't trust you.

Whatever.

Wild...what exactly with the way shops store the 870s causes this problem? I had this problem, but I was able to fix it myself with a little help from some folks here.

Its not always the shops...its the whole supply chain...guns sitting in high humidity and getting a bit of chamber rust. Distributors stocking 100 of them and they sit in warehouses while the oil in the chamber gums up (hey like everyone says, clean your bore before shooting )

Wildanotherletsstartourboardcareerbybashingatleastiwaited10postsAlaska ™

[mikejonestkd]

The earth is not flat.

Actually the earth is flat. The google link settles this. ( inspired by Peetza's post )

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...6c207b1c79523e

we can close this thread anytime now....a sticky chamber/ poorly sized ammo situation was discussed and a clear solution was fully explained, several times in fact....

[mathman]

I hope we don't close the thread...I am somewhere in the middle on this one. It's pretty clear (to me) that there is some issue....what is not absolutely clear is the cause (or causes).

If we could just stop with the lobbing of insults, perhaps we could tap into the huge knowledge base that exists on these forums and try to come up with some solutions.

OK...every go and have one (and only one) beer and then report back in a better mood!!

[TMUSCLE1]

Its not always the shops...its the whole supply chain...guns sitting in high humidity and getting a bit of chamber rust. Distributors stocking 100 of them and they sit in warehouses while the oil in the chamber gums up (hey like everyone says, clean your bore before shooting )

I did clean it before shooting and still had the problem. Is there a certain way that we should be storing ours? When a gun shop stacks theirs vertically and they sit like that for who knows how long does that cause harm to a firearm?

[TMUSCLE1]

Wildanotherletsstartourboardcareerbybashingatleastiwaited10postsAlaska ™

If that was towards me I wasn't bashing you.

[oneounceload]

I did clean it before shooting and still had the problem. Is there a certain way that we should be storing ours? When a gun shop stacks theirs vertically and they sit like that for who knows how long does that cause harm to a firearm?

I prefer to store my long guns muzzle-down - it lets any oil flow away from the action or the wood (shotguns). Doesn't make a difference if you have a rough chamber or a burr or slightly off extractor though

[dgludwig]

Just because someone is new to the board, does not mean they are new to guns.

Very true. And just as true is the fact that thousands of posts made is not necessarily an indicator that somebody knows what they're talking about.

[zippy13]

I, too, have berated Remington on the topic of rough chambers in the 870 Express guns. Yesterday, Dave McC our resident 870 sage, forum moderator and fearless leader reiterated two pertinent points: Ammo selection and a lack of experience (gun and operator). As he mentioned, some guns just don't like certain brands of ammunition. There are many complaints about the 870 Exp's extraction difficulties. But, I don't recall ever reading of the problem arising in a well broken-in gun using Remington ammunition.

I suspect many problems are the result of the owner's failure to comprehend the gun's owners manual. We hear of auto-loaders that jamb only to learn that the shooter hadn't read the manual and wasn't following the recommended load procedures. If you've read the manual that comes with an 870, it includes the following:
"For best results, we recommend that you use Remington Ammunition - the ammunition used in factory testing your firearm against our exacting function and performance standards."
My read is: If you don't use Remington ammo, don't complain if things go wrong.
(Edit: Dave McC says he would have written that as, "If you don't use GOOD ammo…"
Like computers, sometimes with guns it comes down to a case of: Junk in, junk out.)

Many years ago, I learned that Double-A shells shot in one of my O/U P-guns guns and reloaded without sizing would work fine in the O/U P-guns, but would jamb in my Remington stick gun. New AA's or re-sized reloads make my Remington happy. Because it didn't like unsized reloads doesn't make it a Remington quality control problem.

A shortcoming with our forum is the failure of some folks to be specific. If you're talking about an R-870, please mention the model (there are quite a few). If addressing ammo problems, at least man-up and admit it when you're shooting big-box bargain basement loads.

[Dave McC]

Amen, Zippy, though I'd amend that to read.....


"If you don't use GOOD ammo"........

I'm sure some chambers are not fully polished and/or burred. It seems to be a 5 minute fix.

And the fact that some folks are complaining about a gun that glitches but they've not put 500 rounds through it for break in and practice bothers me much more than bad QC at Big Green.

Effective pump guns tend to have wear marks. Defensive pump guns MUST, repeat, MUST have been shot long enough to establish reliability and to groove in the moves.

[Wildalaska]

I'm sure some chambers are not fully polished and/or burred. It seems to be a 5 minute fix.

And Im going to reiterate that its even easier to:

CLEAN YOUR CHAMBER WHEN YOU BRING NEW TOY HOME. THERE IS GOO IN THERE

Wildprobably90%oftheproblemsAlaska ™

[dgludwig]

My read is: If you don't use Remington ammo, don't complain if things go wrong.

Sorry, but I have no use for a firearm that is relegated to using only proprietary ammunition to that of the maker. If the gun is all that sensitive to which brand of ammunition it is compatible with, others are welcome to it; it's just something I don't want to be saddled with. I have way over fifty firearms, including handguns, rifles and shotguns, and I don't recall any of them that required me to use their ammunition in order to insure that the gun functioned correctly. Maybe I'm just too demanding.

[MAX100]

The above post explains why when some get their 870 back from a Remington service center they still have problems with shells sticking the chamber.

If you want the job done right do the polishing yourself. If polishing with steel wool doesn't help much, you will need to use a hone and to open up the chamber a few 1/1000th.

GC

[Regolith]

Sorry, but I have no use for a firearm that is relegated to using only proprietary ammunition to that of the maker. If the gun is all that sensitive to which brand of ammunition it is compatible with, others are welcome to it; it's just something I don't want to be saddled with. I have way over fifty firearms, including handguns, rifles and shotguns, and I don't recall any of them that required me to use their ammunition in order to insure that the gun functioned correctly. Maybe I'm just too demanding.

It's mostly about using ammunition that's in spec rather than just a certain brand. Remington's ammo is made within the same specs as the chambers of their shotguns, so it works, and that's what they test with. The better Federal and Winchester loads work too. If its not in spec, then you're (possibly) out of luck.

[dgludwig]

[QUOTE] Quote:
Sorry, but I have no use for a firearm that is relegated to using only proprietary ammunition to that of the maker. If the gun is all that sensitive to which brand of ammunition it is compatible with, others are welcome to it; it's just something I don't want to be saddled with. I have way over fifty firearms, including handguns, rifles and shotguns, and I don't recall any of them that required me to use their ammunition in order to insure that the gun functioned correctly. Maybe I'm just too demanding.

It's mostly about using ammunition that's in spec rather than just a certain brand.

That's no doubt true. My comment was made to directly address the previous claim:

Quote:
My read is: If you don't use Remington ammo, don't complain if things go wrong.

[MAX100]

It's mostly about using ammunition that's in spec rather than just a certain brand. Remington's ammo is made within the same specs as the chambers of their shotguns, so it works, and that's what they test with. The better Federal and Winchester loads work too. If its not in spec, then you're (possibly) out of luck.

Really! Go back and read the OP. Here is a quote from his post below. He was having problems with Remington shells sticking in the chamber in both barrels.

It had extraction problems about 15-20% of the time with Remington 00 Buck, Remington Slug, Kent high base loads, and Federal low base loads. We would have to put the gun on safe and slam the butt stock on the ground to extract. It did it with both barrels.

GC

[hometheaterman]

Yeah the one I had hated Remington ammo too. I don't recall it ever having the shell stick in the chamber with Remington ammo but it jammed way way more than other brands. This was all with Remington Buck Shot. I'm not sure if I ever shot anything Remington in that gun other than buckshot. By jams I mean stove piped, shells got stuck in the chamber and wouldn't come out as the extractor wouldn't stay latched on them, etc. I also had one shell explode inside the chamber when I went to shoot a deer. I heard it funny and the wad only went halfway down the barrel and I felt something funny on my hand. I looked down to see a flame coming out of the side of the gun which is what I felt. When I opened the action the brass part of the shell had blown apart. I was super lucky that it blew apart inside the gun and didn't make it's way out and seriously hurt my hand. That was the end of Remington buck shot for me. I had a gun shop check the gun out afterward as well as several other people. A couple thought it might have been something wrong with the gun that did that. However, most said it seemed like a faulty shell. I'm not sure what I think it was I just know I wasn't happy about it and am glad I didn't get hurt.

That was the end of Remington buckshot for me as I said above. After switching brands I noticed that while it still did jam some that the amount of jamming went way way down. It didn't jam nearly as much on Federal or Winchester buckshot and I've never had a shell blow apart from them either.

I've not been at all impressed with anything Remington has made in the last 10 years. Ammo, guns, or pretty much anything else. I guess I've seen some clothing items that seem halfway decent but that's about it.

[zippy13]

dgludwig,
You've misquoted me. When I wrote, "My read is: If you don't use Remington ammo, don't complain if things go wrong," I was describing my reaction to Remington's ammo recommendation (recommendation not requirement) as described in the owner's manual. I wasn't making a claim. Somehow you've taken it to mean that Remington requires the use of their ammo, this is not the case.

My Remington functions fine with non-Remington target grade ammo (W-W Double-As and Fed Papers) and properly sized reloads of those hulls. In the event the gun hadn't functioned with new premium loads, I wouldn't have been a happy camper -- but, since it functioned properly, it's a moot point. I've added Dave McC's comment to my previous post with hopes it will eliminate any further misinterpretations of the Remington recommendations.

Getting back to the OP, we don't know if there was ever a failure to extract. From what the OP describes it may have been a failure of the action to unlock after firing. A situation similar to a stuck hull from the shooter's standpoint. In either situation, the OP's solution to, "…slam the butt stock on the ground to extract" may not have been the best. I suspect the OP was very peeved at the time, but that doesn't excuse abusing the gun by slamming it to the ground. Next, he may be complaining about a damaged stock or other problem(s). Wouldn't using a wooden dowel to assist extraction be a more reasonable approach than a slam-o-matic? If a reasonable fix was unsuccessful in the field, then the gun should have been unloaded (via the front of the mag tube) and taken to a pro.

[dgludwig]

You've misquoted me. When I wrote, "My read is: If you don't use Remington ammo, don't complain if things go wrong," I was describing my reaction to Remington's ammo recommendation (recommendation not requirement) as described in the owner's manual. I wasn't making a claim. Somehow you've taken it to mean that Remington requires the use of their ammo, this is not the case.

I didn't "misquote" you, I quoted you word for word. Your read on Remington's recommendation is one thing; what Remington meant with their recommendation is quite another (at least in the case at hand). I don't think for one moment that Remington requires the use of their ammunition; only that if they did (as was implied in your aforementioned "quote"), I would cease to be a Remington customer.

Though I, in fact, quoted you, the quote was taken out of context and from what you're saying, the intent of what you wrote was distorted in the process. These things happen, unfortunately, in the one-dimensioned world of internet "communication". I didn't mean to cause you any undue angst and, if I did, I'm sorry for that.

[zippy13]

dgludwig,
You're correct, of course, with the ability to copy and paste, actual misquotes are infrequent in this environment. Perhaps I should have said, "You seem to have misconstrued my meaning."