New to Shotguns, seeking opinion on which to buy - Page 4

BigJimP · May 5, 2009, 12:55 PM

That's a good price - congratulations.

Zippy covered a list well ...

I find the higher comb pad fits most people better than the stock one / but there is only one optional comb pad I believe. Nothing wrong with waiting / Mann and sons in midwest has them in stock usually - takes only 4 or 5 days to get them. Most dealers don't stock them.

I would not order the other butt pads - especially if you don't know what your length of pull is at this point.

LanceOregon · May 6, 2009, 01:55 PM

There is a lot of biased and downright distorted and untrue info in this thread about gas operated shotguns.

Comments that they don't cycle as fast as Benelli shotguns, and that shooters have to actually wait for follow up shots are utter and complete hogwash. And yes, while they do require more cleaning maintenance, to claim that they have to be cleaned after only 100 to 150 shots is equally ludicrous and outlandish.

Gas operated shotguns clearly have the edge in better absorbing recoil. And if one looks at the top target shooters in the nation that are shooting semiautos, you see a lot more Berettas than you do Benellis. People would not be using Berettas and Browning Gold shotguns in competition so much if they were not utterly reliable guns.

And the impression left here about the street price of Berettas is also very flawed. To say that one has to spend $1,400 to get a Beretta is not at all true either.

I really shop around whenever I buy something, and I've been able to find great deals on all of my Beretta semiautos with a little effort. Looking at the original post in this thread and the specs that were requested, the standard blued Beretta 391 Urika II with a plain black synthetic stock would do all that was requested very very, nicely, and at a small fraction of the price of the Benelli SuperSport. In fact, to be more specific, it can actually be obtained for $1,100 less.

I've bought some of my new Berettas from Tanner's Sport Center. I've yet to find any dealer with better prices on new Berettas than some of the special sale deals that he manages to get from the factory.

Here is a photo of Ray Tanner at his store:

And here is a link to his website:

http://www.tannerssportcenter.com/

He also puts a lot of his special sales up for auction on gunbroker.com Here are some examples:

He has the latest second generation Beretta 391 Urika II with a plain black synthetic stock that I mentioned earlier on sale for only $699:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=128567810

He has the very TOP, TOP of the line Beretta 391 competition shotgun, the Teknys Gold, for only $1,349:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=128506290

Want to get a fantastic hunting shotgun that can also shoot 3.5 inch magnum shells, well, he has the newest Beretta 391 Extrema 2 in plain black synthetic stock for only $899:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=128518223

These guns are all far better values than a Benelli SuperSport at $1,800, in my opinion.

Beretta autoloaders are fabulous guns, and they are all that I now shoot myself, and I could easily buy any shotgun that I could want.

Here are my two 391's that I mainly now shoot now for all of my hunting and target shooting needs. The top gun is a 391 Extrema 2, and the lower gun is a 391 Gold Edition Sporting Clays model:

And here are a couple of older Beretta Deluxe edition 390 shotguns that I added to my collection as collectibles. I've only shot the lower one, but it shoots just as great as my newer 391's

Both guns are so beautiful, though, that I really cannot justify using them at all.

.

BigJimP · May 6, 2009, 03:27 PM

We obviously disagree Lance - and while you're entitled to your opinion on the gas guns .... let's be honest here - there are very few competitive shooters, let alone national caliber shooters, shooting semi-autos in Skeet, Trap or Sporting Clays.

O/U's clearly dominate Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays both locally, regionally and nationally for a lot of reasons.

oneounceload · May 6, 2009, 03:42 PM

Actually Big Jim - the current national sporting clays champ, Anthony Matarese Jr., shoots a Beretta gas gun

I have shot many of both over the years, and could never tell any difference on quick follow-up shots. I know the lighter Benelli kicked more with the same load......Lighter guns will kick more, plain and simple fact of physics.....while certain actions may reduce FELT recoil, actual recoil will still what it is.....using a heavier gun with light loads reduces recoil, but using light loads gives SOME semis snits of fit in the operating arena.

BigJimP · May 6, 2009, 05:19 PM

I forgot about A. Matarese Jr .... you're right OneOunce and he is certainly a talented shooter - but I don't recall any of the other pros shooting them .... although one of the better shooters in my area was using a Beretta gas gun a few years ago - he has switched to a Krieghoff O/U. So I'll still stand by my statement of "only a few".

I understand the issue on lighter guns - you're right about the physics - but what we're taking about is Felt Recoil - since its the only one that really matters. I still maintain the Benelli Super Sport, with the Comfort Tech which is the only way it comes, shoots as soft as any of the gas guns ( although I don't have a way to measure it ). The Benelli's with wood stocks - that cannot have the comfort tech system in them - will definitely give you more recoil than the gas guns, in my view.

I've shot many of the gas guns too - and I still say there is a hesitation on most gas guns firing the 2nd shell with light or heavy loads. However, I think the gas guns are getting better - as they continue to refine them vs the older 1100's, the older Beretta 390's, etc. - and I see the ads where Winchester and others claim they now have the fastest cycling gun ...

I agree, the cycling issue on semi-autos with light loads is a concern - my Super Sport will not cycle any load under 1200 fps - but it has no problem cycling 7/8 oz loads at 1200 fps regardless of what the Benelli manual says. I don't know how light a load the Beretta gas guns will cycle reliably - but I see guys having issues with light loads on Beretta 390's, 391's, Browning gold's etc. - but it may be because they aren't keeping them clean and well lubed. I keep my Benelli a little on the wet side / and I think it makes a difference in reliability - but it makes no sense to me to shoot a dirty gun - gas or inertia. If I am shooting a semi-auto in competition - and there is a flight in the morning and another in the afternoon - I will clean that gun, between flights ( especially if its a gas gun ). But I do the same thing with my semi-auto handguns too - like 1911's.

There are strong opinions on all sides of this issue on inertia vs gas guns - but I have never said the Beretta's or any other gas-operated were bad guns / but they are not, in my opinion, the best choice in the market today - despite the premium price for a Benelli.

While a semi-auto in not my primary gun in any gague - I've been lucky, and this point in my life, I can afford to buy and shoot any gun I want - if, in my opinion, there was a better semi-auto shotgun than the Super Sport I would say so and I would buy it and be shooting it. And I will tell you this, I will continue to keep an open mind on the gas guns - things do change.

oneounceload · May 6, 2009, 09:35 PM

Sorry Jim - I'll disagree on "felt" recoil being the only one that matters.......IIRC, you're about my age.....recoil effect is cumlative, and while felt maybe a factor....ACTUAL, over a LOOOOOOOONG time adds up.......HEAVY gun, LIGHT load equals LOW recoil.......adding a gas gun to the equation also helps to make it "feel" lighter,

example - my 28 is a gas gun....it is s o f t..........but shooting the same load in a heavier gun, though not gas, is really less....

guess we'll agree to disagree - I know you like your benelli guns, but they arte lighter than Beretta gas guns, meaning they WILL recoil more, and being ID, they will even feel more as well.........

But I DO appreciate your knowledge and input........

LanceOregon · May 6, 2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

We obviously disagree Lance - and while you're entitled to your opinion on the gas guns

Actually, I was simply stating that you were saying negative things about gas operated shotguns that are completely untrue and false, and are only supported by your own personal bias against them, and not any actual facts.

Feel free to prefer to shoot a Benelli. I have no problem at all in folks liking and shooting those shotguns. Just don't unfairly disparage gas operated shotguns with comments that are simply not true, or are greatly exaggerated.

.

BigJimP · May 7, 2009, 11:37 AM

I agree OneOunce - and I appreciate your input as well. Our different points of view are good for the discussion and I understand your perspective. We've both made our decisions on the guns we shoot - and our discussion of the issues with various guns hopefully will help somebody else make up their mind or maybe ask more questions before they buy. Either way, its all good.

Lance - you're etitled to your opinion - but don't tell me my opinions are the same as making blatant untrue or exaggerated statements or clouding the facts. The issues you are alluding to seem to be my opinions on the speed of a gas gun cycling vs the Benelli super sport, how often you have to clean a gas gun and something about price that got obscured somewhere... I gave you my opinions on cycle speed and reliability - nothing more / and you can no more prove your point of view than I can. I assume we both know neither one of us can necessarily believe what the marketing depts of the gun mfg's say as fact.

I will continue to share my opinion on any guns - as I see it. I assume you will do the same - but there is no reason for you and I to go after eachother on a pesonal level / I'm way past the point where I have to prove how high up the tree I can pee - and I'd appreciate the same courtesy from you. Disagree if you want - but don't tell me my opinions are falsehoods.

jg0001 · May 30, 2009, 12:34 AM

FYI: I just today FINALLY received in my Benelli SuperSport (30" barrel). The dealer actually priced it a bit under quote at $1750, so I was quite happy. I had to find the "extra high" comb myself, though -- I was a little surprised to see that it cost $95 by itself.

Anyway, I didn't do much other than put it together then take it apart so far. I'll let my bro-in-law take me to an outdoor range for a proper lesson with it someday soon (perhaps vs some skeet).

oneounceload · May 30, 2009, 07:56 AM

Have fun with it jg - (yet another shotgun addict in the making!)

zippy13 · May 30, 2009, 09:00 AM

Congratulations! Keep us posted on your progress. Next, you'll be wanting info on shot shell reloading.

May 6, 2009, 01:55 PM	#77
LanceOregon Junior member Join Date: May 10, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,774	There is a lot of biased and downright distorted and untrue info in this thread about gas operated shotguns. Comments that they don't cycle as fast as Benelli shotguns, and that shooters have to actually wait for follow up shots are utter and complete hogwash. And yes, while they do require more cleaning maintenance, to claim that they have to be cleaned after only 100 to 150 shots is equally ludicrous and outlandish. Gas operated shotguns clearly have the edge in better absorbing recoil. And if one looks at the top target shooters in the nation that are shooting semiautos, you see a lot more Berettas than you do Benellis. People would not be using Berettas and Browning Gold shotguns in competition so much if they were not utterly reliable guns. And the impression left here about the street price of Berettas is also very flawed. To say that one has to spend $1,400 to get a Beretta is not at all true either. I really shop around whenever I buy something, and I've been able to find great deals on all of my Beretta semiautos with a little effort. Looking at the original post in this thread and the specs that were requested, the standard blued Beretta 391 Urika II with a plain black synthetic stock would do all that was requested very very, nicely, and at a small fraction of the price of the Benelli SuperSport. In fact, to be more specific, it can actually be obtained for $1,100 less. I've bought some of my new Berettas from Tanner's Sport Center. I've yet to find any dealer with better prices on new Berettas than some of the special sale deals that he manages to get from the factory. Here is a photo of Ray Tanner at his store: And here is a link to his website: http://www.tannerssportcenter.com/ He also puts a lot of his special sales up for auction on gunbroker.com Here are some examples: He has the latest second generation Beretta 391 Urika II with a plain black synthetic stock that I mentioned earlier on sale for only $699: http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=128567810 He has the very TOP, TOP of the line Beretta 391 competition shotgun, the Teknys Gold, for only $1,349: http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=128506290 Want to get a fantastic hunting shotgun that can also shoot 3.5 inch magnum shells, well, he has the newest Beretta 391 Extrema 2 in plain black synthetic stock for only $899: http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=128518223 These guns are all far better values than a Benelli SuperSport at $1,800, in my opinion. Beretta autoloaders are fabulous guns, and they are all that I now shoot myself, and I could easily buy any shotgun that I could want. Here are my two 391's that I mainly now shoot now for all of my hunting and target shooting needs. The top gun is a 391 Extrema 2, and the lower gun is a 391 Gold Edition Sporting Clays model: And here are a couple of older Beretta Deluxe edition 390 shotguns that I added to my collection as collectibles. I've only shot the lower one, but it shoots just as great as my newer 391's Both guns are so beautiful, though, that I really cannot justify using them at all. . Last edited by LanceOregon; May 6, 2009 at 02:08 PM.

May 5, 2009, 12:55 PM	#76
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	That's a good price - congratulations. Zippy covered a list well ... I find the higher comb pad fits most people better than the stock one / but there is only one optional comb pad I believe. Nothing wrong with waiting / Mann and sons in midwest has them in stock usually - takes only 4 or 5 days to get them. Most dealers don't stock them. I would not order the other butt pads - especially if you don't know what your length of pull is at this point.

May 6, 2009, 03:27 PM	#78
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	We obviously disagree Lance - and while you're entitled to your opinion on the gas guns .... let's be honest here - there are very few competitive shooters, let alone national caliber shooters, shooting semi-autos in Skeet, Trap or Sporting Clays. O/U's clearly dominate Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays both locally, regionally and nationally for a lot of reasons.

May 6, 2009, 03:42 PM	#79
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Actually Big Jim - the current national sporting clays champ, Anthony Matarese Jr., shoots a Beretta gas gun I have shot many of both over the years, and could never tell any difference on quick follow-up shots. I know the lighter Benelli kicked more with the same load......Lighter guns will kick more, plain and simple fact of physics.....while certain actions may reduce FELT recoil, actual recoil will still what it is.....using a heavier gun with light loads reduces recoil, but using light loads gives SOME semis snits of fit in the operating arena.

May 6, 2009, 05:19 PM	#80
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I forgot about A. Matarese Jr .... you're right OneOunce and he is certainly a talented shooter - but I don't recall any of the other pros shooting them .... although one of the better shooters in my area was using a Beretta gas gun a few years ago - he has switched to a Krieghoff O/U. So I'll still stand by my statement of "only a few". I understand the issue on lighter guns - you're right about the physics - but what we're taking about is Felt Recoil - since its the only one that really matters. I still maintain the Benelli Super Sport, with the Comfort Tech which is the only way it comes, shoots as soft as any of the gas guns ( although I don't have a way to measure it ). The Benelli's with wood stocks - that cannot have the comfort tech system in them - will definitely give you more recoil than the gas guns, in my view. I've shot many of the gas guns too - and I still say there is a hesitation on most gas guns firing the 2nd shell with light or heavy loads. However, I think the gas guns are getting better - as they continue to refine them vs the older 1100's, the older Beretta 390's, etc. - and I see the ads where Winchester and others claim they now have the fastest cycling gun ... I agree, the cycling issue on semi-autos with light loads is a concern - my Super Sport will not cycle any load under 1200 fps - but it has no problem cycling 7/8 oz loads at 1200 fps regardless of what the Benelli manual says. I don't know how light a load the Beretta gas guns will cycle reliably - but I see guys having issues with light loads on Beretta 390's, 391's, Browning gold's etc. - but it may be because they aren't keeping them clean and well lubed. I keep my Benelli a little on the wet side / and I think it makes a difference in reliability - but it makes no sense to me to shoot a dirty gun - gas or inertia. If I am shooting a semi-auto in competition - and there is a flight in the morning and another in the afternoon - I will clean that gun, between flights ( especially if its a gas gun ). But I do the same thing with my semi-auto handguns too - like 1911's. There are strong opinions on all sides of this issue on inertia vs gas guns - but I have never said the Beretta's or any other gas-operated were bad guns / but they are not, in my opinion, the best choice in the market today - despite the premium price for a Benelli. While a semi-auto in not my primary gun in any gague - I've been lucky, and this point in my life, I can afford to buy and shoot any gun I want - if, in my opinion, there was a better semi-auto shotgun than the Super Sport I would say so and I would buy it and be shooting it. And I will tell you this, I will continue to keep an open mind on the gas guns - things do change.

May 6, 2009, 09:35 PM	#81
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Sorry Jim - I'll disagree on "felt" recoil being the only one that matters.......IIRC, you're about my age.....recoil effect is cumlative, and while felt maybe a factor....ACTUAL, over a LOOOOOOOONG time adds up.......HEAVY gun, LIGHT load equals LOW recoil.......adding a gas gun to the equation also helps to make it "feel" lighter, example - my 28 is a gas gun....it is s o f t..........but shooting the same load in a heavier gun, though not gas, is really less.... guess we'll agree to disagree - I know you like your benelli guns, but they arte lighter than Beretta gas guns, meaning they WILL recoil more, and being ID, they will even feel more as well......... But I DO appreciate your knowledge and input........

May 7, 2009, 11:37 AM	#83
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I agree OneOunce - and I appreciate your input as well. Our different points of view are good for the discussion and I understand your perspective. We've both made our decisions on the guns we shoot - and our discussion of the issues with various guns hopefully will help somebody else make up their mind or maybe ask more questions before they buy. Either way, its all good. Lance - you're etitled to your opinion - but don't tell me my opinions are the same as making blatant untrue or exaggerated statements or clouding the facts. The issues you are alluding to seem to be my opinions on the speed of a gas gun cycling vs the Benelli super sport, how often you have to clean a gas gun and something about price that got obscured somewhere... I gave you my opinions on cycle speed and reliability - nothing more / and you can no more prove your point of view than I can. I assume we both know neither one of us can necessarily believe what the marketing depts of the gun mfg's say as fact. I will continue to share my opinion on any guns - as I see it. I assume you will do the same - but there is no reason for you and I to go after eachother on a pesonal level / I'm way past the point where I have to prove how high up the tree I can pee - and I'd appreciate the same courtesy from you. Disagree if you want - but don't tell me my opinions are falsehoods.

May 30, 2009, 12:34 AM	#84
jg0001 Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2007 Posts: 551	FYI: I just today FINALLY received in my Benelli SuperSport (30" barrel). The dealer actually priced it a bit under quote at $1750, so I was quite happy. I had to find the "extra high" comb myself, though -- I was a little surprised to see that it cost $95 by itself. Anyway, I didn't do much other than put it together then take it apart so far. I'll let my bro-in-law take me to an outdoor range for a proper lesson with it someday soon (perhaps vs some skeet).

May 30, 2009, 07:56 AM	#85
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Have fun with it jg - (yet another shotgun addict in the making!)

May 30, 2009, 09:00 AM	#86
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Congratulations! Keep us posted on your progress. Next, you'll be wanting info on shot shell reloading.