The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 4, 2008, 09:38 PM   #51
daveydoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2008
Location: AZ where is the rain
Posts: 170
500 and 590a1 are gov't models. I always like the 590a1 20" model heavy barrel ready for action. It is like the AK of shotguns.
__________________
He that has never suffered extreme adversity knows not the full extent of his own depravation.
- Charles Caleb Colton
daveydoo is offline  
Old August 4, 2008, 10:16 PM   #52
Nnobby45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 3,150
Quote:
The Mossberg 500 is what our troops carry. It must be pretty reliable if we are defending freedom with it
The Mossberg 500 may be a good shotgun, but the reason you gave isn't, in itself, a reliable indicator.

Our troops are defending freedom with piece of garbage after market, cheap, unreliable magazines for the M9-- which won the contract over Sig Sauers' superior P226 largely for policital reasons. Sig isn't a NATO ally whose soil we need for U.S. Air Bases.

Pentagon bureaucrats made the decision to stick with the inferior after market magazines, rather than purchase the good ones from Beretta.
Nnobby45 is offline  
Old August 4, 2008, 10:35 PM   #53
Juhosaphat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2008
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 174
Chickenman wrote:
Quote:
I saw a post on the GUNS FOR SALE side of this forum...dude in WA is selling an 870 postol grip for $225 FTF.

I got my 870 for $300 and added $300+ worth of parts/sights to it. I found a POS 500 at a fun show for $200. I sold it.

good luck.
It's actually down to 200$ FTF Damn good price even with the pistol grips since you can get a decent set of wood furniture for around 40-60$ on the forums. Or just leave the PG's on there for a fun gun at that price lol

EDIT: Only TFL is seeing that price too just FYI
__________________
What doesn't kill you will only make you stronger.
Learn from your mistakes and you shall prevail equally.
Juhosaphat is offline  
Old August 4, 2008, 10:57 PM   #54
qwert.380
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2004
Location: central indiana
Posts: 127
here is mine



its a 500 with some goodies
__________________
F&AM Jubilee#746
qwert.380 is offline  
Old August 4, 2008, 11:15 PM   #55
Juhosaphat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2008
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 174
Was never a huge fan of the carbon fiber stocks that they put on some of the 500's. They look alright, but just too light for my liking. Good looking gun you've got there though
__________________
What doesn't kill you will only make you stronger.
Learn from your mistakes and you shall prevail equally.
Juhosaphat is offline  
Old August 5, 2008, 05:37 PM   #56
Rustynuts
Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 94
Quote:
You people who like the pistol grips and the saiga shotguns go ahead and use them. And when the prosecuting attorney flashes it to the jury and you end up in jail I'll send you a nice b-day card (on my b-day, not yours. I'll make sure it has a pic of me at a beach or something).
If it's an iffy shoot maybe, but in castle law states it wouldn't matter. You could blow the BG away with a real cannon if you legally owned it. Wouldn't matter if the cannon was painted black either!
Rustynuts is offline  
Old August 5, 2008, 08:21 PM   #57
jjyergler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 31, 2008
Posts: 295
Quote:
The Mossberg 500 is what our troops carry. It must be pretty reliable if we are defending freedom with it
Ha Ha, that's a good one. Remember, your life depends on equipment manufactured by the lowest bidder, approved by Pentagon bureaucrats, and purchased by Congress. That's a recepie for success.
__________________
Remington Nylon 66 .22LR - Squirrels Beware
Browning BAR Safari II .270 Win - Whitetails Beware
Sig Sauer P229 .40 S+W - Burglars Beware
Hi Standard Supermatic Citation .22LR - Tincans Beware
jjyergler is offline  
Old August 5, 2008, 10:09 PM   #58
Nnobby45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 3,150
Quote:
Quote:
You people who like the pistol grips and the saiga shotguns go ahead and use them. And when the prosecuting attorney flashes it to the jury and you end up in jail I'll send you a nice b-day card (on my b-day, not yours. I'll make sure it has a pic of me at a beach or something).

If it's an iffy shoot maybe, but in castle law states it wouldn't matter. You could blow the BG away with a real cannon if you legally owned it. Wouldn't matter if the cannon was painted black either!
A prosecutor or civil attorney might well use that against you---the evil pistol grip.

But it's the same pistol grip used by SWAT team members to keep one hand free, enbabling them to do other things--like turn lights on/off, shut doors, grab a cell phone, or carry a child to safety. The same as we might have to do.

I'd like to think my attorney is capable of making the case for my choice of weaponry, and for the ammo I might use, as well as defuse any red herring introduced by the opposition.
Nnobby45 is offline  
Old August 5, 2008, 10:14 PM   #59
Nnobby45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 3,150
oops. deleted dbl post.
Nnobby45 is offline  
Old August 6, 2008, 08:13 AM   #60
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
Let me wade back into this.....

Practically ANY reliable shotgun shorter than 4 feet long makes a wonderful defense tool in trained cool hands.

That last phrase is the key.

We come up short way more than our tools do.

In a crisis, when instantly at a gut level we understand just why they wanted to know who our next of kin is, physical things happen.

Heart rate and strength goes up, vision focusses on what's deem the threat, and fine motor skills tank badly.

If someone is trying to kill you, priorities AND ABILITIES shift. That's why they say combat changes people.

I can't recall the names of all my girlfriends of yore, or those of folks I worked with for years, but every incident that threatened bodily harm to me still comes through like it happened this morn.

As one of the Gun Gurus says, "We descend to our level of training".

The military says that 50% of combat casualties from enemy fire happen during the person's FIRST firefight.

Rather than focus on what shotgun to get or shudder, what bolt ons, try this checklist.....

Am I fully proficent with the weapon?

Can I operate it safely and effectively 15 seconds out of a sound sleep in low or no light when scared?

Can I run my weapon without running it dry?

What's my Plan B?


A few minutes cogitation will bring up other concerns.

A couple training tips....

A set of welder's goggles can imitate low light conditions for those of us with range access only by daylight.

And more than 50% of crises occur after dark.


Running in place before firing a COF spikes the heart rate and simulates adrenalin boost enough to warrant doing this.

Shooting clay games is not only great fun but if shot Low Gun is great practice for getting a good mount quickly. And if you can acquire and neutralize a 4" disc moving on an unknown trajectory at an unknown speed within a second or so, larger, slower closer targets will give you little trouble.

BTW, 4" is about the width of the CNS for much of its length.

HTH....
Dave McC is offline  
Old August 6, 2008, 05:54 PM   #61
john1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2006
Location: The relatively sane part of IL
Posts: 383
Quote:
You people who like the pistol grips and the saiga shotguns go ahead and use them. And when the prosecuting attorney flashes it to the jury and you end up in jail I'll send you a nice b-day card (on my b-day, not yours. I'll make sure it has a pic of me at a beach or something).

Get yourself an Rem 870 Express (with an 18" slug barrel), keep it bone stock, learn how to use it and then pray you never need it.
Why take the chance with the 870? Great, great grandaddie's flintlock should be all you need.
__________________
Almost any problem can be solved by a liberal dose of .45 230 gr JHPs.
john1911 is offline  
Old August 6, 2008, 06:25 PM   #62
daveydoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2008
Location: AZ where is the rain
Posts: 170
John whats wrong with BP flintlock with a bayonet lug on it.
__________________
He that has never suffered extreme adversity knows not the full extent of his own depravation.
- Charles Caleb Colton
daveydoo is offline  
Old August 6, 2008, 08:16 PM   #63
L_Killkenny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,676
ya, you're right, a BP shotgun is all 99%(+) of us will ever need for home defence. But they're a pain in the arse and they make the room smell of smoke for days after pluggin someone.

The difference between BP shotty and an 870 is a lot farther apart than the difference between the 870 with factory stock and one with a pistol grip or the Saiga Semi for that matter. Stupid comparison.

You gain practically nothing with pistol grip when it comes to effectivness and I'm not paranoid enough to think I need a Saiga with a drum mag to defend my home.

LK
L_Killkenny is offline  
Old August 6, 2008, 11:43 PM   #64
arizona98tj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 979
Quote:
....whats wrong with BP flintlock with a bayonet lug on it.
Not a thing!
__________________
stu-offroad.com
Largest Jeep TJ project site on the web!
(now with guns)
arizona98tj is offline  
Old August 7, 2008, 02:53 AM   #65
WacosSon
Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2008
Posts: 85
Quote:
ya, you're right, a BP shotgun is all 99%(+) of us will ever need for home defence. But they're a pain in the arse and they make the room smell of smoke for days after pluggin someone.
I would think the room would smell worse from pluggin someone than it would from the smoke.
__________________
_______________________________
Lifetime NRA member
"A free people ought to be armed." - George Washington
WacosSon is offline  
Old August 7, 2008, 09:08 AM   #66
john1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2006
Location: The relatively sane part of IL
Posts: 383
Quote:
The difference between BP shotty and an 870 is a lot farther apart than the difference between the 870 with factory stock and one with a pistol grip or the Saiga Semi for that matter. Stupid comparison.
What's the difference between a plain Jane 870 and an 870 with a pistol grip? They both cycle the same way and have the same rate of fire. How does that extra plastic make one "bad"?

What's the difference between the Saiga and the 1100? Both are gas operated semi-autos. Does the detachable magazine make the Saiga "evil"? I imagine Chuckie Schumer or Diane Feinstein would say so, but would a gun-owner?
__________________
Almost any problem can be solved by a liberal dose of .45 230 gr JHPs.
john1911 is offline  
Old August 7, 2008, 09:24 AM   #67
SR420
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2005
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 3,226
Quote:
Best Home Defense Shotgun
Mine is the HK/Benelli M1 Super 90 with factory pistol grip and ghost ring sights that I purchased brand new in 1993.

SR420 is offline  
Old August 7, 2008, 12:03 PM   #68
L_Killkenny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,676
Quote bt John1911:
"Quote:
The difference between BP shotty and an 870 is a lot farther apart than the difference between the 870 with factory stock and one with a pistol grip or the Saiga Semi for that matter. Stupid comparison.

What's the difference between a plain Jane 870 and an 870 with a pistol grip? They both cycle the same way and have the same rate of fire. How does that extra plastic make one "bad"?

What's the difference between the Saiga and the 1100? Both are gas operated semi-autos. Does the detachable magazine make the Saiga "evil"? I imagine Chuckie Schumer or Diane Feinstein would say so, but would a gun-owner?"


I'm a gun owner and will defend anyone's right to buy any firearm they see fit even if I do think it's over the top and unneeded. On the flip side, I will also tell a fellow gun owner when I think certain items are over the top and unneeded. No one here is gonna agree on everything and I'm not gonna try. But these forums would get pretty lame and unnecessary if it's all one sided.

I do think that items such as pistol grips and bayonets are over the top for home defence and do little, if anything, to help a home owner defend their home. These items can have ill effects on you and I in certain cases where the general public becomes involved. Like it or not, it was an effect.

A basic pump gun is a great HD weapon. No reason to add all the Mall Ninja stuff to it.

LK
L_Killkenny is offline  
Old August 7, 2008, 03:14 PM   #69
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
The best HD shotgun isn't a shotgun, but a Colt M4, 30 round magazine and a suppressor!, ( with an MP-5 in a close second place).....
oneounceload is offline  
Old August 7, 2008, 03:29 PM   #70
jdavidboyd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2007
Posts: 3
Here's my home security, a Mossberg 590 Mariner

jdavidboyd is offline  
Old August 9, 2008, 02:42 PM   #71
eldogg4life
Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2005
Location: The North Pole...
Posts: 42
Good Thread

Just to chime in...
I have a Rem870 12g.
I did buy a collapsible stock with pistol grip plus a mag tube extension.
I used to say "a pistol grip belongs on a pistol"
but after shooting my Rem870 with the collapible stock I really like it.
At the end of the day you gotta go to ur gunshop of choice and handle the firearm. You will know which one is The One. Good Luck!!!
eldogg4life is offline  
Old August 9, 2008, 10:54 PM   #72
cnutco
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2008
Location: NE GA
Posts: 189
+1 for the 870!
cnutco is offline  
Old August 10, 2008, 04:09 AM   #73
2ndchance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2008
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 178
What about ammo?

There's been a lot of debate between a Mossy 500 and a Rem 870. But there hasn't been mention about the proper ammo. If I read correctly, the original poster made mention about shooting slugs with a pistol grip shotgun.

Slugs? For home defense? I use game loads with 7-1/2 size shot. Pure devastation at under 15 ft., lighter recoil, and safer then over penetrating slugs.

Oh, BTW. I solved the gun debate years ago. I have both the 870 AND the 500 under my bed. No faster reload than a 2nd gun!
2ndchance is offline  
Old August 10, 2008, 05:33 AM   #74
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 9,220
And with #7 1/2 shot you will very likely need that 2nd shotgun for back up. While a lot of the shotguns listed will work fine, my choice is an 870 with 20" IC barrel with rifle sights. Mine shoots slugs into 4"-5" groups at 100 yds and 2" groups at 50 yds. Buckshot patterns are still tight enough to be effictive out to 20-25 yards. Choosing birdshot is a very, very, poor choice. I would only use it if it were all I had and then would suggest the largest shot size available.
jmr40 is offline  
Old August 10, 2008, 10:16 AM   #75
akr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,379
Use #1 buck or #00 buckshot in an HD shotgun.
__________________
Http://www.nationalgunforum.com

NRA Lifetime Member
akr is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14216 seconds with 9 queries